Questions on sanctification from a new believer

Four Significant Stages in Life's Journey - Watchman Nee (CFP)
www3.telus.net/trbrooks/four_stages_of_life.htm
Four Significant Stages in Life's Journey. A Balanced Christian Life (CFP), 163-174, by Watchman Nee. And it came to pass, when Jehovah would take up Elijah by a whirlwind into heaven, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.


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1. From what I understand, sanctification is a life-long journey, but do different people progress at different rates?

Eph 2:10, II Peter 1, Romans 8 "walk in the Spirit", seek daily to be filled with the Spirit for strength, power to live the godly life.
The main progress difference, is studying the Bible, reading history and culture surrounding the Bible, understanding the texts, I listed, being full of the Spirit aka walking in the Spirit, fellowship and prayer.

2. Whose "effort?" Ours, God's, or God's + ours? Both, for us obedience and walking in the good works.


3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play? Romans 8


4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?

Smoking and sleeping in are bad habits, but are not sins.
Study Galatians 5 for fruit of the Spirit vs fruit of the Flesh to learn the difference.

Emsmom1 said:

1. From what I understand, sanctification is a life-long journey, but do different people progress at different rates?

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Yes. To be honest, I wonder just how much most people actually do progress. I don't sense that older Christians on average are that much closer to Jesus than younger ones, although experience and wisdom do have their advantages. If I'm giving the official answer, I'd say yes, God works with us to make us better, and I think we do manage to overcome problems over time. But I'm not sure the overall effect is that most people turn into saints. I think the reason is that we have new problems to solve over time.

The really dramatic changes you read about seem to be from people who came from really difficult backgrounds and with help manage to straighten themselves out. In fact I have a friend like that. He credits the church with saving his life. Most of the people he knew as a young teenagers are dead or in prison. But once he got his life together I'm not sure he started moving towards sainthood.

We need to be honest about this. I see lots of postings in CF by people who are disappointed that they haven't become perfect. In some cases they give up.

2. Whose "effort?" Ours, God's, or God's + ours?

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Remember, we're talking about the Christian life here, not salvation. Justification may (depending upon your theology) be by faith alone, but growing in the Christian life pretty much has to involve you, because your life is changing. It has to involve God if it's actual Christian development.

3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play?

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We normally think of God's presence with us as the Holy Spirit, so it's the Spirit that is most involved in the Christian life. But really, everything God does involves Father, Son and Spirit. If you look at John 14 and following, where Jesus talks about sending the Spirit, the Spirit teaches about Jesus (14:26), and the disciples are to know that the Father loves them and pray to him in Jesus' name. Some Christians emphasize the Spirit, others fellowship with Christ, but I don't think that matters.

4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?
Thanks in advance!

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You would call me a liberal Christian, probably. We don't emphasize so much defining what actions are sins, because to many people that seems to mean whether it violates a rule. So they might try to say, yeah, this is a bad habit, but it doesn't violate any rule. That's not the way Jesus taught. It's the whole point of Matthew 5. He didn't talk about avoiding sin, but about obeying him, and doing things to help others. If a habit is bad, either it's not good for us or for someone else. That doesn't mean you should live in fear of hell because you're a smoker or something. That's not how God works. But I don't think you can justify something bad by saying it's not a sin.

Welcome to the Family of God, Emsmom 1. The Bible tells us that we become a child of God, AFTER we believe and and become a follower of Christ. For your questions, I'll do my best: 1) Yes, different rates. God created us all different so we each progress differently. Many, many factors are at play. Even though we walk in the Spirit we each are encumbered with our old nature which even the Apostle Paul admitted struggling with. We each come into the fold at a different developmental stage in our life, with different familial conditioning and cultures and personal experiences and so much more. Our minds don't just "DELETE" when we are saved. And one never "arrives" at full sanctification in this life; oh, that is unless you are a Nazarene, I believe. 2) I think the "effort", putting one foot ahead of the other must be ours. God does not want one to feel compelled to do anything in obedience or charity or goodness. We aren't good anyway, Christ is and it is He who God , the Father, sees when He looks at a believer. As I say in my signature below, Christ Jesus took a bullet in the head for each of us, so-to-speak, to redeem each person who chooses to believe in the power of His sacrifice. As long as we are burdened with our fleshly body we are going to be fighting temptation and periodically sinning; hopefully less and less, hence 1 John 1:9. That verse is to believers. 3) The Bible tells us that when we believe, are saved, we are endowed with the Holy Spirit; our body becomes "the temple of the Holy Spirit." Because He allows us free will God lets us choose to ignore or submit to the prompting of the holy Spirit and to our knowledge of God's Word, the Bible and the inherited (Adam's DNA, so-to-speak) knowledge of good and evil. He wants us to obey Him out of love, not compulsion. God does not look at the good we do. He looks beyond outward appearances into our heartss; our intentions and motives. He can see those and He tells us in His word that that is what He judges. Many do good, but many "good deed doers" do such out of selfish ambition and other evil intents or motives. If we do good, it is because we submitted to Him and doing such empowers us. 4) Some, many bad habits ARE a sin, but not all. Technically, anything we do which damages our body or our ability to function at its full capacity could be labled sin as our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. A bad habit of maturating while lusting after inappropriate content or memories of "provocative" moments or "views" by some people's standards like the "esteemed" and popular Dr. Ruth is labeled as a healthy habit and not even a bad one but it is definitely a sin unless it is done by thinking of one's wife, if married.

Anyway, that is my understanding of God's Word.

Emsmom1 said:

1. From what I understand, sanctification is a life-long journey, but do different people progress at different rates?
2. Whose "effort?" Ours, God's, or God's + ours?
3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play?
4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?
Thanks in advance!

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I am going to tell you a few things I wish someone would've told me when I became a Christian, because I started with a fire in me that people wrapped in religion put down until I was able to go back. They lost the fire and they thought that was being Holy, but if you understand His love rivers will flow from you towards others because you are drinking from the same Spirit.

1. Adam and Eve sinned but the consequences of the fall was separation from God, not anger from Him. We lost God's nature (Love) and we received the devils nature (the opposite of the gifts of the Spirit). When you understand you need your Fathers nature back in you, you learn why you need Jesus, He is the demonstration of His love. When you accept your need for Jesus and declare Him Lord and Ruler of your life, you become saved.

2. God is looking for relationship, not for you to just do something because he ordered. Your sanctification will come from that relationship. Sanctification is you learning the heart the Father, learning your identity in Him and then manifesting it. He says in His word that He will be our God and we will be His people. When you learn who He is, you will understand your identity in Him. Learned the reason behind his commandments. Not just follow them. God is about honor, respect and integrity. Once you become a son/daughter there is no condemnation. Be as honest as you can be with Him. Come as you are. When I struggle with something I invite Him to take a look at what is happening for Him to give me His perspective. I used to pray what I thought He wanted me to, but then He taught me to learn His heart for people so I can pray from a right heart. He appreciates honesty.

3. Since we are born our souls are looking for our Creator, it is an innate sense we have. When you sin, look at the sin and examine why you are drawn to it. In some cases it could be something in the family (generational iniquities) that you need to break, but in many cases its your soul trying to get something from God but doesn't know how to process it. We are supposed to get what we need from God from our parents until we have a relationship with God ourselves, but unfortunately the families nowadays are broken. It takes one generation to start the process, to bless the next one.

4. Once you become a son/daughter all of the promises to the Israelites are yours now. Don't pay attention to how God treated the Israelites, they were in a different covenant, we are treated differently. Do read the Old Testament to understand why Jesus needed to come and die for us, but God's anger was placed on the cross. He wants His creation back. He wants you to know Him and He wants to know you. The thing is that you must believe God's promises, but the devil uses even science to make you stop believing in God's reality, which is yours as well. Even if you are not experiencing them, declare them and make them yours. I never ask God for them, I thank Him for them because they are mine. I believe I have them. We must live by faith.

5. The Bible says we will do bigger things than Jesus. Believe it. If you see someone sick, be bold and declare His truth over them. We are to be a reflection of Jesus. Theres a difference between fear and respect, lear to respect Him, but don't live in fear of Him.

6. Study and camp on the Cross. If you understand what Jesus accomplished on the Cross, you will receive the revelation of His love for you. God didn't start loving you when you accepted Christ, He loved you since He had you in His mind, before He made creation. Jesus made all things new.

7. God is a super personal God. If you pay attention, you will discern all the ways He speaks and you will be able to sense Him, hear Him and rest that what He says is real.

8. God doesn't temp nor lie. When He tests its to check how real you are. Don't accept everything as coming from God. He is a good Father. You will know Him by studying Jesus because He was the reflection of God's will.

Hope this helps!

Emsmom1 said:

1. From what I understand, sanctification is a life-long journey, but do different people progress at different rates?
2. Whose "effort?" Ours, God's, or God's + ours?
3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play?
4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?
Thanks in advance!

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My understanding of sanctification is that it happens when the atoning, cleansing blood of Christ is applied to our bodies.
This happens when we are baptized into Christ and into His death, burial, and we are raised as new creatures with Jesus. (Rom 6:3-7)
From the point of our rebirth from the seed of God, (1 John 3:9), we will continue to grow in grace and knowledge.
We start out sanctified and grow from there.
To the glory of God.

Below based on my experience only. I'm sorry I don't have time to grab scripture to back this up.
1. Not only to people progress at different rates, over time our rate of change fluctuates.
2. You will know when you get to the issue the Lord has burdened you with, whose efforts are required to fight the battle.
3. The Holy Spirit is involved from the moment you give your life and will over to Jesus. From that point, the Spirit guides you on your journey, pricking your conscience and teeing up your next fight.
4. I would say there may be a difference, but for me, all of my bad habits are tied to sins I struggle with.

Emsmom1 said:

4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?

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carp614 said:

4. I would say there may be a difference, but for me, all of my bad habits are tied to sins I struggle with.

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What about bad habits that are not even thought of as bad, nor ever as if a sin, but are or can be very sinful? (these are , in all society, VERY common)

Emsmom1 said:

Can you give some examples?

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Greed/ business or profit motivated by greed/ profiteering/ flipping houses exorbitantly (not just fixing one up and selling at a fair decent price to someone, but flipping just to make money, patted on the back by pastor , deacons, elders, and others for doing so well (in sin) )

Emsmom1 said:

Can you give some examples?

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With great sorrow, grief, and trouble,
most of the practices of government, farming, social services, medical, banking, etc etc etc

Emsmom1 said:

1. From what I understand, sanctification is a life-long journey, but do different people progress at different rates?

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Yes, and people can speed up and slow down at different times in their lives.

Emsmom1 said:

2. Whose "effort?" Ours, God's, or God's + ours?

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God does what he does. As we obey him, that obedience has a sanctifying effect, especially when repeated. Keep walking with God, and you keep growing in God.

Emsmom1 said:

3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play?

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He's always part of it. I can't express the details, and there is so much of that I do not understand. A fraction of that is providing opportunities for you to obey.

Emsmom1 said:

4. Is there a difference between a bad habit and a sin?

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Sins are defined in the New Testament - either doing one of the many things listed in it that we're not supposed to do, or refusing to step up and do a good thing that we know we're supposed to do.

A bad habit is something that isn't helpful to us that we keep on doing. It's not a sin to eat a doughnut, but it can be a bad habit to eat a doughnut every day on your way to work. A bad habit, when bad enough, can become a sin for a person. Such as, eating enough doughnuts to develop diabetes or morbid obesity. That example may or may not also include the sin of gluttony.

Phil W said:

My understanding of sanctification is that it happens when the atoning, cleansing blood of Christ is applied to our bodies.
This happens when we are baptized into Christ and into His death, burial, and we are raised as new creatures with Jesus. (Rom 6:3-7)
From the point of our rebirth from the seed of God, (1 John 3:9), we will continue to grow in grace and knowledge.
We start out sanctified and grow from there.
To the glory of God.

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Hum. I just did some research and it appears that you and I both seem to be correct and there is a third sense of the word, sanctification, used in the Bible. See: What is sanctification? What is the definition of Christian sanctification? | GotQuestions.org This is part of the Mission Statement of this source: "GotQuestions.org is a ministry of dedicated and trained servants who have a desire to assist others in their understanding of God, Scripture, salvation, and other spiritual topics. We are Christian, Protestant, evangelical, theologically conservative, and non-denominational. We view ourselves as a para-church ministry, coming alongside the church to help people find answers to their spiritually related questions."

Monksailor said:

Hum. I just did some research and it appears that you and I both seem to be correct and there is a third sense of the word, sanctification, used in the Bible. See: What is sanctification? What is the definition of Christian sanctification? | GotQuestions.org This is part of the Mission Statement of this source: "GotQuestions.org is a ministry of dedicated and trained servants who have a desire to assist others in their understanding of God, Scripture, salvation, and other spiritual topics. We are Christian, Protestant, evangelical, theologically conservative, and non-denominational. We view ourselves as a para-church ministry, coming alongside the church to help people find answers to their spiritually related questions."

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What are your three "senses" of sanctification?
The dictionary defines sanctification with several words, including atoned for, set apart, consecrated, made holy, cleansed, hallowed, and made sacred.

I checked out one topic on your provided site, and I did not agree with their summation.

Attempt at deleting post...

Phil W said:

What are your three "senses" of sanctification?
The dictionary defines sanctification with several words, including atoned for, set apart, consecrated, made holy, cleansed, hallowed, and made sacred.

I checked out one topic on your provided site, and I did not agree with their summation.

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They weren't "my" three senses of sanctification they were the three which this qualified and objective Biblical source cited and gave abundant scriptures to show the three different "senses" of the word. They ARE different. If you have a question about it I am pretty sure that they will be glad to explain it to you or you and them can agree to disagree, then. We Christians have that freedom. God accepts one who treats ANY day of the week as the Sabbath, not just Saturday or Sunday. He gives us that freedom. Read Romans 14. We don't have to agree on every thing.

Emsmom1 said:

3. How/when/where does the Holy Spirit come into play?

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Holy=sanctify. That is the 'Holy' Spirit's work to sanctify us into the image of Christ. His main tool is God's Word...convicting us of sin, revealing the source of forgiveness of that sin (Jesus and Him crucified), and then He strengthens/empowers us for service...

2 Timothy 2:20-21 (KJV) But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Monksailor said:

They weren't "my" three senses of sanctification they were the three which this qualified and objective Biblical source cited and gave abundant scriptures to show the three different "senses" of the word. They ARE different. If you have a question about it I am pretty sure that they will be glad to explain it to you or you and them can agree to disagree, then. We Christians have that freedom. God accepts one who treats ANY day of the week as the Sabbath, not just Saturday or Sunday. He gives us that freedom. Read Romans 14. We don't have to agree on every thing.

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OK, and thanks for the input.

Phil W said:

OK, and thanks for the input.

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The original text in the Bible was a lot more colorful and difficult for most of us to comprehend, let alone even being able to read. For example, in English we read the same word for "love" used for 3 or 4 different senses or meanings of the word. (See:
Different Types Of Love From The Bible: A Christian Study "It appears that, in New Testament times, there were at least four different Greek words that we translate as the English word ‘love’. This variety actually helps us in the work of translation because each of the four different Greek words carries a slightly different definition from the other three. This makes it a little clearer as to what the original means. These words were:..."

This is the same case for the word "sanctification" as we read it in English.

Referring to a Secular Dictionary, esp. one NOT addressing the original Greek (or Hebrew) word can be a far cry from deriving TRUE intent or meaning of the word. English, for example, does not have all of the words old Greek, for example, has and thereby a continuity of a word-for-word translation is impossible. In the translation process the translators (who ARE fluent in the original Greek and/or Hebrew) convey the meaning of the word through its contextual use and application. The best a lay person of the faith can do is pray for insight from the Holy Spirit within and utilize a Strongs or otherwise EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE of the Bible and examine the use of the word in various locations of the Bible: to examine the CONTEXTUAL use of the the word. This is just what the source did in the earlier link which I provided for the different uses of the word "sanctification" of which you choose to disagree. Of course, another way to learn what the Bible is saying is to find a highly qualified mentor or teacher of the Bible God's Word and allow them to convey its intent, but always verified by your submission to the Holy Spirit within and your own Bible study with at least a concordance.

If you are still lost think about one's use of the English language and its homonyms like "squash" or "draft" or "bark" or "jam" or "mine" or... . If you were a foreigner who did not understand English very well and isolated the word and looked it up in a dictionary it it would be impossible to derive its intended meaning as multiple meanings will be given. One can ignorantly or bias-ly choose to make it say what they want it to say by selecting an unintended meaning from the dictionary or go back and read its contextual use in association with all of the wording and grammar of the sentence or relevant surrounding sentences and/or paragraphs (this is CONTEXTUAL use) and discover the actual intended meaning.

Read more: Different Types Of Love From The Bible: A Christian Study