Question for Jews and Muslims. Which prophet is Deuteronomy 18:18-19 referring to?

LittleLambofJesus

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I have heard Muslims claim the Prophet in vs 18 is Muhammad and that the Jews claim it is their future Messiah or Elijah.
Christians view that Prophet as Messiah Jesus.
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
John 1:41 He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).
John 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.
Why does Judaism and Islam not see that Prophet as the Jesus of the Christian New Testament?

Some commentaries:

Deuteronomy 18 YLT

YLT) Deuteronomy 18:
15‘A prophet out of thy midst, out of thy brethren, like to me, doth Jehovah thy God raise up to thee — unto him ye hearken; 16according to all that thou didst ask from Jehovah thy God, in Horeb, in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not add to hear the voice of Jehovah my God, and this great fire let me not see any more, and I die not; 17and Jehovah saith unto me, They have done well that they have spoken; 18a prophet I raise up to them, out of the midst of their brethren, like to thee; and I have given my words in his mouth, and he hath spoken unto them all that which I command him; 19and it hath been — the man who doth not hearken unto My words which he doth speak in My name, I require [it] of him. 20‘Only, the prophet who presumeth to speak a word in My name — that which I have not commanded him to speak — and who speaketh in the name of other gods — even that prophet hath died. 21‘And when thou sayest in thy heart, How do we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken? — 22that which the prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, and the thing is not, and cometh not — it [is] the word which Jehovah hath not spoken; in presumption hath the prophet spoken it; — thou art not afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18 Orthodox Jewish Bible
[Orothodox Jewish Bible]Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Navi from among their achim, like unto thee, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him [Yn 10:18]. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not listen unto My words which he shall speak Bishmi (in My Name), I will require it of him.
=====================================
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

Acts 3:22
For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.
Acts 7:37
This is the same Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.'
==========================================
EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE)
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
18:15-22 It is here promised concerning Christ, that there should come a Prophet, great above all the prophets; by whom God would make known himself and his will to the children of men, more fully and clearly than he had ever done before. He is the Light of the world, Joh 8:12. He is the World by whom God speaks to us, Joh 1:1; Heb 1:2. In his birth he should be one of their nation. In his resurrection he should be raised up at Jerusalem, and from thence his doctrine should go forth to all the world. Thus God, having raised up his Son Christ Jesus, sent him to bless us. He should be like unto Moses, only above him. This prophet is come, even JESUS; and is He that should come, and we are to look for no other. The view of God which he gives, will not terrify or overwhelm, but encourages us. He speaks with fatherly affection and Divine authority united. Whoever refuses to listen to Jesus Christ, shall find it is at his peril; the same that is the Prophet is to be his Judge, Joh 12:48
======================
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The ancient fathers of the Church and the generality of modern commentators have regarded our Lord as the prophet promised in these verses. It is evident from the New Testament alone that the Messianic was the accredited interpretation among the Jews at the beginning of the Christian era (compare the marginal references, and John 4:25); nor can our Lord Himself, when He declares that Moses "wrote of Him" John 5:45-47, be supposed to have any other words more directly in view than these, the only words in which Moses, speaking in his own person, gives any prediction of the kind. But the verses seem to have a further, no less evident if subsidiary, reference to a prophetical order which should stand from time to time, as Moses had done, between God and the people; which should make known God's will to the latter; which should by its presence render it unnecessary either that God should address the people directly, as at Sinai (Deuteronomy 18:16; compare Deuteronomy 5:25 ff), or that the people themselves in lack of counsel should resort to the superstitions of the pagan.In fact, in the words before us, Moses gives promise both of a prophetic order, and of the Messiah in particular as its chief; of a line of prophets culminating in one eminent individual.
======================
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
De 18:15-19. Christ the Prophet Is to Be Heard.15-19. The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet—The insertion of this promise, in connection with the preceding prohibition, might warrant the application (which some make of it) to that order of true prophets whom God commissioned in unbroken succession to instruct, to direct, and warn His people; and in this view the purport of it is, "There is no need to consult with diviners and soothsayers, as I shall afford you the benefit of divinely appointed prophets, for judging of whose credentials a sure criterion is given" (De 18:20-22). But the prophet here promised was pre-eminently the Messiah, for He alone was "like unto Moses" (see on [156]De 34:10)
 

tampasteve

Pray for peace in Israel
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I think many (most?) Jewish people that believe in a Messiah would say it is a messianic verse, but that does not mean it has to be about Jesus. Many Jewish people believe in the coming messiah, and also believe that many of the verses we both interpret as messianic point to the messiah - they just disagree about Jesus fulfilling those prophesies.
 
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Robban

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I think many (most?) Jewish people that believe in a Messiah would say it is a messianic verse, but that does not mean it has to be about Jesus. Many Jewish people believe in the coming messiah, and also believe that many of the verses we both interpret as messianic point to the messiah - they just disagree about Jesus fulfilling those prophesies.

The era of prophesy officially came to an end some 23 centuries ago.

Some lived to see the building of the Second Temple,
with the demise of that generation,

"Prophesy departed from Israel."

However the priniple that "G-d communicates to mankind through prophesy" remains a foundation of Jewish faith.

A lesser form of prophesy, known as ruach hakodesh/
divine inspiration.

According to tradition, one of the greatest prophets,
Elijah, never died, and will herald the coming of Moshiach.

Moshiach himself is a prophet." approaching the prophesy of Moses" according to Maimonides.

Maimonides recounts an age-old tradition that "shortly before the messianic era prophesy will return to the Jewish people."
 
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Ken Rank

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Acts 21:20 can be argued to say that a 1/4 of the Jewish population of Jerusalem in that day believed Yeshua was messiah. Even if I am wrong about that, which I don't think I am, the early church, pretty much through the Bar Khokba Revolt (134AD) was majority Jewish. So the modern Christian idea that the Jews rejected Yeshua just isn't based on truth. That aside.... @tampasteve is right but I would add this. The Jews in that day were under Roman rule. And while they have a two messiah teaching (ben Joseph the suffering servant and ben David the Conquering King) I believe that many that didn't believe weren't looking for the suffering servant because they wanted Rome out of their land. I think many missed Jesus because they were looking for what we believe is the position he will fill in his second coming. Regardless, I see all Jews as messianic in the sense that their religion is based around the idea that messiah... the one we also wait for... is coming. Is it enough to accept him this time and not the first time around? I have my own view but that is for another thread.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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Robban

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It has always seemed to me that Deuteronomy 18 was endorsing Joshua as the successor of Moses rather than predicting some distant future figure.

That too.

Joshua,
Recieved authority from Moses.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The era of prophesy officially came to an end some 23 centuries ago.

Some lived to see the building of the Second Temple,
with the demise of that generation,
"Prophesy departed from Israel."

However the priniple that "G-d communicates to mankind through prophesy" remains a foundation of Jewish faith.
A lesser form of prophesy, known as ruach hakodesh/
divine inspiration.
According to tradition, one of the greatest prophets,
Elijah, never died, and will herald the coming of Moshiach.
Moshiach himself is a prophet." approaching the prophesy of Moses" according to Maimonides.
Maimonides recounts an age-old tradition that "shortly before the messianic era prophesy will return to the Jewish people."
Shalom and thank you for posting. Very interesting.

Does Judaism believe that a Temple and Sanctuary have to be built before their future Messiah comes?

The Christian NT shows both John the Baptist coming and then Jesus coming to His Temple [Malachi 3:1-2]. The Arch-Messenger Gabriel is shown appearing to the parents of both of them [Gabriel is only mentioned in Luke 1 of the NT]

Malachi 3:1
Behold! sending a messenger of Me, and he paves way before Me
And suddenly the Lord/0113 'adown whom ye are seeking shall come to His Temple, and/even the Messenger of the Covenant, whom ye ones delighting. Behold! He comes says Yahweh of Hosts. 2 and who enduring the Day to come of Him, and who the one Standing in to be seen of Him. That He as fire of a refiner and as soap of launderers. 3 And he hath sat, a refiner and purifier of silver, and he hath purified the sons of Levi, and hath refined them as gold and as silver,

Luke 1:13 And the angel said to him, “Fear not, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard, and Your wife Elizabeth will bear to you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And he will be joy and gladness to you, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great before the Lord. And he shall never drink wine and strong drink, and he will be full of the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go forth before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
19 And the messenger answering said to him, `I am Gabriy'el, who hast been standing near before the God, and I was sent to speak unto thee, and to proclaim these good news to thee,

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month was the messenger Gabriy'el sent by God, to a city of the Galilee, the name of which [is] Nazareth,
29 And she was troubled at the statement and was pondering what kind this salutation might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Fear not, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in womb, and will bring forth a son, and you shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and He will be called Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob to the ages. And of His kingdom there will be no end!”
=============================
Jesus first comes to the Temple when He was 12 years old [which I feel is the fulfillment of Isaiah 11]

Luke 2:41 And His parents were going yearly to Jerusalem, at the feast of the Passover, 42 and when He became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the Feast, 43 and having finished the days, in their returning, the Child Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, and Joseph and His mother did not know. 44 And having supposed Him to be in the company, they went a day’s journey, and were seeking Him among the kindred and among the acquaintances. 45 And not having found Him, they turned back to Jerusalem seeking Him. 46 And it came to pass after three days, they found Him in the Temple, sitting in the midst of the Teachers, both hearing them and questioning them, 47 and all those hearing him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Isaiah 11:6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, And the leopard shall lie down with the kid; And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little Child shall lead them.
The next big event is when He cleanses the Temple, which is shown in all 4 Gospel accounts:

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus entered into the Temple of God, and did cast forth all those selling and buying in the temple, and the tables of the money-changers he overturned, and the seats of those selling the doves,

Mark 11:15
And they come to Jerusalem, and Jesus having gone into the Temple, began to cast forth those selling and buying in the Temple, and the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those selling the doves, He overthrew,

Luke 19:45
And having entered into the Temple, He began to cast forth those selling in it, and those buying, 46 saying to them, ‘It hath been written, My house is a house of prayer — but ye made it a den of robbers.’

John 2:13
And the Passover of the Jews was nigh, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen, and sheep, and doves, and the money-changers sitting, 15 and having made a whip of small cords, he put all forth out of the Temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers He poured out the coins, and the tables He overthrew, 16 and to those selling the doves He said, ‘Take these things hence; make not the house of my Father a house of merchandise.’
==============================
There are a lot of Christians that view 1st century Jerusalem and it's Temple/Sanctuary as that great city in Revelation 18:

Revelation 18:
11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
 
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Robban

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Shalom and thank you for posting. Very interesting.

Does Judaism believe that a Temple and Sanctuary have to be built before their future Messiah comes?

The Christian NT shows both John the Baptist coming and then Jesus coming to His Temple [Malachi 3:1-2]. The Arch-Messenger Gabriel is shown appearing to the parents of both of them [Gabriel is only mentioned in Luke 1 of the NT]

Maimonides states in his Mishnah Torah---

that Moshiach will first rebuild the Temple and then gather in the exiles.

Malachi 3:1
Behold! sending a messenger of Me, and he paves way before Me
And suddenly the Lord/0113 'adown whom ye are seeking shall come to His Temple, and/even the Messenger of the Covenant, whom ye ones delighting. Behold! He comes says Yahweh of Hosts. 2 and who enduring the Day to come of Him, and who the one Standing in to be seen of Him. That He as fire of a refiner and as soap of launderers. 3 And he hath sat, a refiner and purifier of silver, and he hath purified the sons of Levi, and hath refined them as gold and as silver,

Luke 1:13 And the angel said to him, “Fear not, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard, and Your wife Elizabeth will bear to you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And he will be joy and gladness to you, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great before the Lord. And he shall never drink wine and strong drink, and he will be full of the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go forth before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
19 And the messenger answering said to him, `I am Gabriy'el, who hast been standing near before the God, and I was sent to speak unto thee, and to proclaim these good news to thee,

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month was the messenger Gabriy'el sent by God, to a city of the Galilee, the name of which [is] Nazareth,
29 And she was troubled at the statement and was pondering what kind this salutation might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Fear not, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in womb, and will bring forth a son, and you shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and He will be called Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob to the ages. And of His kingdom there will be no end!”
=============================
Jesus first comes to the Temple when He was 12 years old [which I feel is the fulfillment of Isaiah 11]

Luke 2:41 And His parents were going yearly to Jerusalem, at the feast of the Passover, 42 and when He became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the Feast, 43 and having finished the days, in their returning, the Child Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, and Joseph and His mother did not know. 44 And having supposed Him to be in the company, they went a day’s journey, and were seeking Him among the kindred and among the acquaintances. 45 And not having found Him, they turned back to Jerusalem seeking Him. 46 And it came to pass after three days, they found Him in the Temple, sitting in the midst of the Teachers, both hearing them and questioning them, 47 and all those hearing him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
The next big event is when He cleanses the Temple, which is shown in all 4 Gospel accounts:

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus entered into the Temple of God, and did cast forth all those selling and buying in the temple, and the tables of the money-changers he overturned, and the seats of those selling the doves,

Mark 11:15
And they come to Jerusalem, and Jesus having gone into the Temple, began to cast forth those selling and buying in the Temple, and the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those selling the doves, He overthrew,

Luke 19:45
And having entered into the Temple, He began to cast forth those selling in it, and those buying, 46 saying to them, ‘It hath been written, My house is a house of prayer — but ye made it a den of robbers.’

John 2:13
And the Passover of the Jews was nigh, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen, and sheep, and doves, and the money-changers sitting, 15 and having made a whip of small cords, he put all forth out of the Temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers He poured out the coins, and the tables He overthrew, 16 and to those selling the doves He said, ‘Take these things hence; make not the house of my Father a house of merchandise.’
==============================
There are a lot of Christians that view 1st century Jerusalem and it's Temple/Sanctuary as that great city in Revelation 18:

Revelation 18:
11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her, that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still
13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Shalom and thank you for posting. Very interesting.

Does Judaism believe that a Temple and Sanctuary have to be built before their future Messiah comes?
Maimonides states in his Mishnah Torah---
that Moshiach will first rebuild the Temple and then gather in the exiles.
Interesting [I may create a thread on that.]

Does Judaism believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Herod's Temple being destroyed in 70AD?
It is mentioned in 3 of the Gospels, with Luke expanding on it even further.
Why would God have the Roman army destroy the Temple just so another could be built 1000s of years later?

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 21:6
These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
[Luke 19:44]

Luke 19:
39 Some of the Pharisees from the multitude said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!"
40 He answered them, "I tell you that if these were silent, the stones would cry out."

41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee, now yet it was hid from Thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee, stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".
==========================
An interesting vid on the "stones crying out" in Luke 19:40 that I had never really thought about:

==========================================
According the NT, all believers in Christ are now the Temple/Sanctuary.

G3485 (YLT)
used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of the god was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

John 2:
19 - Jesus answered and said to them, 'Destroy this sanctuary<3485>, and in three days I will raise it up.' 20 - The Jews, therefore, said, 'Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?' 21 but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are a Sanctuary of God, and that the Spirit of God within you doth dwell?
=================================
Some Christians view this Sanctuary being measured in Revelation as the one in Herod's Temple while others view it as a prophecy on a future Jewish Temple Sanctuary:

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary/naon <3485> of the God and the altar and those worshiping in him
2 and the court the without/*in of the Sanctuary be casting-out outside !and no her thou should be measuring,
that was given to the nations and the City the holy they shall be treading months, forty two.[/quote]
 
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Robban

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Interesting [I may create a thread on that.]

Does Judaism believe Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Herod's Temple being destroyed in 70AD?
It is mentioned in 3 of the Gospels, with Luke expanding on it even further.
Why would God have the Roman army destroy the Temple just so another could be built 1000s of years later?

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 21:6
These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
[Luke 19:44]

Luke 19:
39 Some of the Pharisees from the multitude said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!"
40 He answered them, "I tell you that if these were silent, the stones would cry out."

41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee, now yet it was hid from Thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee, stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".
==========================
An interesting vid on the "stones crying out" in Luke 19:40 that I had never really thought about:

==========================================
According the NT, all believers in Christ are now the Temple/Sanctuary.

G3485 (YLT)
used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of the god was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

John 2:
19 - Jesus answered and said to them, 'Destroy this sanctuary<3485>, and in three days I will raise it up.' 20 - The Jews, therefore, said, 'Forty and six years was this sanctuary building, and wilt thou in three days raise it up?' 21 but he spake concerning the sanctuary of his body;

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are a Sanctuary of God, and that the Spirit of God within you doth dwell?
=================================
Some Christians view this Sanctuary being measured in Revelation as the one in Herod's Temple while others view it as a prophecy on a future Jewish Temple Sanctuary:

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary/naon <3485> of the God and the altar and those worshiping in him
2 and the court the without/*in of the Sanctuary be casting-out outside !and no her thou should be measuring,
that was given to the nations and the City the holy they shall be treading months, forty two.
[/QUOTE]

It is hardly a secret that the second Temple was destroyed because of a dissunity among them,

There was a baseless hate.

If there had been unity among them they would have merited G-ds protection.
 
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