Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?

pdudgeon · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
So...the kingdom of Assyria has yet to be destroyed?

The things that occurred were not necessarily spiritual but they were written in figurative language. The prophecy in Daniel 9 doesn't need to be spiritualized. It was the prophecy of Jesus' arrival and establishment of his kingdom. It was a spiritual kingdom to be sure, but he did come, he did get "cut off" and the kingdom came. A kingdom that will never be destroyed. And it came in exactly the time frame that was allotted for it.

And that was the point of David's writing. God is eternal. Time is of no consequence to him. But when he talks to men, he lays out time periods of the events he's foretelling because we are men and time matters to us. Besides which, if prophecies with time attached to them do not take place in the time he speaks, then he can't be trusted. So it is of the utmost importance that we accept his stated times.

As in,
"This generation shall not pass until all these things take place."
"Some of you standing here will not taste death until all these things come to pass."
"70 weeks are determined for your people and your city"
"Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years."

Not one of those could or should be interpreted with this cipher of 1 day = 1000 years or the other way around. It doesn't work with the fulfilled prophecy where time periods are given, and thus for prophecy that is alleged to yet be unfulfilled it would be folly to attempt to interpret the time passages except as they are given.

Jesus is not returning to rule on an earthly throne.

"My kingdom is not of this world."

If it wasn't of this world when he spoke those words, then it can never be. That word he used there is a possessive pronoun. It's HIS kingdom. And his kingdom will never be destroyed and it will never end. If it ever were to be on earth, then it wouldn't be a heavenly kingdom.

The people who have pushed this earthly kingdom stuff have literally interpreted Revelation and in so doing have rejected his words about this and John's statement that the vision was "signified by His angel" and which must "shortly come to pass." Same thing that people do with Daniel 9 by inventing a gap that is never mentioned in the text. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks passed. A rejection of the time passage. Arguing with God and his words.

Just a few points here...
Of course it wasn't of "this world' that Jesus spoke, because "this world" and this universe will be destroyed, and a new heaven and new Earth will be created by God, so that nothing sinful remains.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

pdudgeon said:
Just a few points here...
Of course it wasn't of "this world' that Jesus spoke, because "this world" and this universe will be destroyed, and a new heaven and new Earth will be created by God, so that nothing sinful remains.

But it will be the same kingdom that he established 2000 years ago. He's not coming here to rule on earth. In fact, as Paul writes in Thessalonians, he isn't going to touch earth when he returns, we're going to meet him.

Douggg · Dec 3, 2019

Deep Truth said:
If the tribulation ends in the 2037 to 2040 time-frame, the generation that was born in 1948 when Israel became a nation will be approximately 89 to 92 years old when Jesus returns. And its possible the number 89, 90, 91 or 92 that's mentioned in a story may be revealing how old this generation of 1948 will be at the end of the tribulation.

Begin with 1967, not 1948. 1967 Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews. The numbers will line up then.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 3, 2019

Deep Truth said:
If the tribulation ends in the 2037 to 2040 time-frame, the generation that was born in 1948 when Israel became a nation will be approximately 89 to 92 years old when Jesus returns. And its possible the number 89, 90, 91 or 92 that's mentioned in a story may be revealing how old this generation of 1948 will be at the end of the tribulation.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
he isn't going to touch earth when he returns, we're going to meet him.

His feet touch the earth when He returns at the end of the tribulation period. Before the trib we are caught up in the air to meet Him there. Pre trib He comes for us, post trib He returns with us.

keras · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
So...the kingdom of Assyria has yet to be destroyed?

Of course it has. The historical record proves it.
The prophesies about Jesus first Advent were literally fulfilled. Why not those about His Return. Acts 1:11, Revelation 19:11-21

Re the 70 'weeks', that is 490 years of Daniel 9.
Jesus was 'cut off' after the 69th week. We await the fulfilment of the final 7 years, as is vividly described in Revelation.
If you deny this, you deny the Revelation of Jesus, to your discredit.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

Douggg said:
Begin with 1967, not 1948. 1967 Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews. The numbers will line up then.

So much for Jesus telling John "things which must shortly come to pass."

Jesus IS the rebuilt temple. Even if "Israel" were to build a temple, it would have no significance. It will always be a cheap imitation, of no use to anyone who follows Christ.

Lots of people have tried to predict the end of the world. They been embarrassed, every time.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

keras said:
Of course it has.

I'm confused, I thought you were saying it was yet to be fulfilled.

The historical record proves it.
The prophesies about Jesus first Advent were literally fulfilled. Why not those about His Return. Acts 1:11, Revelation 19:11-21

Revelation has some mention of the day of Judgement which is a future event. But the book is prefaced with the statement that the prophecy in them, the messages written to seven churches in Asia, not Christians living 2000 years later, were to "shortly come to pass." And Jesus closes with "I am coming quickly" not in reference to a second coming but in reference to the judgement he warned the churches they would face in the early part of the book.

Re the 70 'weeks', that is 490 years of Daniel 9.
Jesus was 'cut off' after the 69th week. We await the fulfilment of the final 7 years, as is vividly described in Revelation.

70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks occurred. Jesus was cut off in the 70th week just as the text indicates.

If you deny this, you deny the Bible, to your discredit.

I deny that there was any unstated gap in the 70 weeks. God said 70 weeks, and it happened just as he said. Revelation has nothing at all to do with Daniel other than it is a prophecy. To toy with a time passage that God established is to deny his accuracy. And that's really kind of what's being done today. People are so eager to be mouthpieces for God, it is an understandable desire, that they are willing to twist his time passages around so they can claim to be prophetic themselves.

Billy Graham said about this that God didn't expect the Jews to reject Jesus. Wow. All one has to do is to read the 24th chapter of Luke to see Jesus repudiate such an idea. Not only did he expect it, he told them he would bring wrath on those who rejected him. That wrath was brought and the kingdom of Israel was utterly destroyed and their religion laid waste, never to be practiced again. The modern day nation of Israel is not the re-establishment of that kingdom. The temple was rebuilt. That temple was Christ.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
His feet touch the earth when He returns at the end of the tribulation period. Before the trib we are caught up in the air to meet Him there. Pre trib He comes for us, post trib He returns with us.

All one has to do is read the first three verses of the book to realize that John believed he was in the tribulation at that time. He also believed he was in the kingdom along with those he was writing to.

The "greatest tribulation" took place in the generation Jesus said it would. If John wrote Revelation in 90 AD as some suggest, the great tribulation had already been over 16 years.

Douggg · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
So much for Jesus telling John "things which must shortly come to pass."

Jesus IS the rebuilt temple. Even if "Israel" were to build a temple, it would have no significance. It will always be a cheap imitation, of no use to anyone who follows Christ.

Lots of people have tried to predict the end of the world. They been embarrassed, every time.

If you are referring to Revelation 1, things which must shortly come to pass is that John was about to be shown what the future held at the time Jesus would be revealed to the world - in great power and glory.

The temple will be rebuilt by the Jews (Judaism) with their intent of it being for worship of God.

Lots of people have tried to predict the end of the world. They been embarrassed, every time.

Check your facts. Not one person ever has been wrong based on 1967, and a generation being 70 years or by strength 80 years, Psalms 90.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

keras said:
Of course it has. The historical record proves it.

You either totally flip flopped on this or didn't understand what I was asking.

Prophesies like Isaiah 30:26a are a clear statement of a factual event, still to happen.

The prophecy there is talking about the destruction of Assyria. And it was destroyed. Now I note you responded "the historical record proves it" but maybe you didn't realize that the prophecy you said was still to happen, was the prophecy about Assyria? Why did you first say that this prophecy was still to happen?

martymonster · Dec 3, 2019

This is when the tribulation ends.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Al Touthentop · Dec 3, 2019

Douggg said:
If you are referring to Revelation 1, things which must shortly come to pass is that John was about to be shown"

This is a terribly poor attempt. The problem is that God isn't a bad grammarian.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,"

The revelation was about "things which must shortly take place." What must take place shortly? The events revealed to John. Later we'll read that there are even things past in the revelation.

Check your facts. Not one person ever has been wrong based on 1967, and a generation being 70 years or by strength 80 years, Psalms 90.

That is funny. They were wrong based on 1948, then changed that to 1967, and I am supposed to be impressed with their accuracy. You ought to read in the Old Testament what God thought about false prophets. Reminds one of Russel. How many people lost their homes because of that man's rejection of God's time passages? Thousands upon thousands.

Douggg · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,"

The revelation was about "things which must shortly take place." What must take place shortly? The events revealed to John. Later we'll read that there are even things past in the revelation.

The revelation which God the Father gave Jesus was not the things that John was about to be shown. It was not that Jesus had been informed of those things and was passing them on to John.

The revelation is the honor and glory of Jesus being revealed to the world in great power and glory at his Second Coming.

Jesus is God Almighty. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end of the world which He created.

Al Touthentop said:
That is funny. They were wrong based on 1948, then changed that to 1967, and I am supposed to be impressed with their accuracy. You ought to read in the Old Testament what God thought about false prophets. Reminds one of Russel. How many people lost their homes because of that man's rejection of God's time passages? Thousands upon thousands.

It will not be so funny, when you go into that great tribulation for being a scoffer. You need to repent.

Douggg · Dec 3, 2019

martymonster said:
This is when the tribulation ends.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The great tribulation (1335 days long) ends when the part in red takes place. The part in blue (1290 days long) ends when the sixth event takes place.

In the 45 days difference, the armies of the world will assemble at Armageddon to make war on Jesus. Only to be destroyed, the Day Jesus descends down to earth.

JacksBratt · Dec 3, 2019

Al Touthentop said:
The reason most people don't recognize the historical things that have taken place which were prophecied in Revelation is because they interpret it literally. If we're to take the prophecy literally, then it's true that all the dead martyrs are underneath an altar somewhere in heaven and they're constantly crying out for vengeance, Jesus was literally holding the stars in his hand and Polycarp was a lampstand.

Be that as it may, it is not relevant to the scripture being discussed. Revelation is not a continuation of Jesus prophecy in Luke 18 and Matt. 24. Jesus said that the great tribulation would occur before that generation passed. You can accept what he said or inappropriately try to connect that prophecy with Revelation which itself says "must shortly take place."

Likely, most everything, except the judgement day, has already occurred. If you don't trust the time passages in scripture, then every time statement by God is suspect including the 400 years or so that he told Abraham would pass before his people were brought of Egypt.

From what I have read the "generation" that will not pass before all these things take place... is the generation that sees Israel reborn.... Which happened in 1948...

So, by that... this generation is now 72 years old.... and before these pass away... well you get the picture.

Dave L · Dec 3, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I disagree. Revelation may be a book of symbols, riddles and metaphors... but it is not all symbolic. IMO.

If it is mostly symbols, how can it not be symbolic? Have you seen any green horses or red dragons lately?

JacksBratt · Dec 3, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Read Gen. 7:4.

I read it.

Seems that God gave him a 7 day "heads up". So, ya, you're right.

However, ... With Noah... He was building his escape pod... He was well aware that time was short anyway.

With the tribulation.... nobody should be guessing at dates.

BNR32FAN · Dec 3, 2019

Deep Truth said:
Is it possible the exact year when the tribulation will end is being concealed in the scriptures that we do not yet recognize, just as the disciples were blinded to the scriptures and did not recognize that Jesus came to die on cross as Israel's suffering Messiah? Luke 18:31-34.

In the book of Genesis the Lord told Abraham that his offspring would be servants and suffer affliction in a land not their own (Genesis 15:13) for a total of 400 years. And this 400 year period of time was fulfilled when Moses delivered Israel from their bondage to Pharaoh after 430 years in Egypt and Canaan, Exodus 12:40 (Septuagint), Acts 7:6-7.

See also

and Israel Was Not Enslaved in Egypt for 400 Years

God also told Jeremiah that rebellious Israel would be taken captive for 70 years in Babylon, Jeremiah 29:10. And in the book of Daniel the angel Gabriel said there would be a period of 483 years from the decree of Artaxerxes when the anointed one (Jesus) would come to Jerusalem and be killed but not for himself, Daniel 9:25-26.

Over and over again the Lord has revealed in his Word the exact number of years for when Israel's servitude and captivity would end. And when you consider this prophetic fact its reasonable to assume the specific year for when Israel will be set free from their slavery to sin at the end of the tribulation may be hidden in the scriptures that we are unable to recognize unless God opens our spiritually blinded eyes.

The scriptural stories that are symbolic for a 2000 year gospel age that began from Jesus resurrection in 30 to 33 AD point to the probable time-frame of 2037 to 2040 for when the last year of the tribulation will be fulfilled. And the possible last year of the tribulation in 2037, 2038, 2039 or 2040, may be hidden in some mysterious and cryptic story that we do not yet perceive.

If the tribulation ends in the 2037 to 2040 time-frame, the generation that was born in 1948 when Israel became a nation will be approximately 89 to 92 years old when Jesus returns. And its possible the number 89, 90, 91 or 92 that's mentioned in a story may be revealing how old this generation of 1948 will be at the end of the tribulation.

Even though no one knows the exact day or hour when the 7 years of tribulation will begin, God may have hidden in his Word the specific year when tribulation will end. Therefore if your eyes have been opened to see a scriptural clue or symbolic number that may represent the last year of the tribulation please share your thoughts.

We cannot know the exact date because no one knows the day which The Lord will return and set the prophecies in motion.

JacksBratt · Dec 3, 2019

Dave L said:
If it is mostly symbols, how can it not be symbolic? Have you seen any green horses or red dragons lately?

It's not exhaustively symbolic. The symbols are mixed with the literal theme.

As has been pointed out on this thread... the tribulation remains in the future.

What, in your view, do you see as the end of this age.. What happens and when does this age end? Do we just go on forever... in this corrupt mess of mans pride and selfishness?

Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?

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