two covenants

Gup20

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The purpose of the law is to justify one as righteous. But as Christians (like Abraham), we are justified in righteousness apart from the law. The law would not exist for another 430 years when Abraham was made righteous, so the righteousness he obtained based on faith is truly apart from the law. As "seed" and "descendants" of Abraham, we inherit that righteousness.

[Gal 3:6-9 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

[Gal 3:16 NASB] 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

[Gen 15:5-6 NASB] 5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your [seed] be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.​

So in Genesis 15 when God takes Abraham outside and says "so shall your seed be," we know from Gal 3:16 that God is talking about Jesus Christ. So then we see from Gal 3:8 that the Gospel which was preached to Abraham is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and when Abraham believes this gospel of Jesus Christ he is immediately made righteous apart from the law which wouldn't be given for another 430 years.

----

As to resurrection... I am interested to learn what the old testament passages are concerning it. The only one if know of is:

Daniel 12:1
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt
.

This agrees with the New Testament scriptures as well:

Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

John 5:28
“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

So it seems there will be a universal resurrection followed by a 2nd judgment (Adam's judgment being the first), and that, for those who do not have faith in the gospel, there will be a 2nd death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

A universal resurrection makes sense... Adam's judgment (death) was universal (for his sin all humanity, the animals, the plants, the ground, -- the whole universe -- was cursed). If that judgment is rescinded, it would effectively resurrect everything that had died under that judgement (the righteous and the wicked). Of course, that universal, corporate judgement of Adam has to be repealed in lieu of individual judgments. Once there is a single righteous person in history that universal corporate judgment becomes unjust, and must be repealed in lieu of individual judgments.

The great white throne judgment is an individual judgment (not a corporate judgement):

[Rev 20:11-12 NASB] 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.​

This makes sense with the Old Testament as well;

Numbers 14:18
The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.

Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

At first glance, this would seem like an apparent contradiction until you realize that Ezekiel was a prophet (who often prophesied about Jesus), and Numbers is The Law. Numbers speaks to what now is under Adam's corporate judgment, while Ezekiel speaks to how it will be after Adam's judgment is repealed (the resurrection) and we have individual judgments.
 
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sparow

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We know that the law is spiritual, Paul the Pharisee claimed to be unspiritual sold as a slave to sin (Romans 7:14).

Sold as a slave to sin, one translation; sold under sin, anther translation. The question is who sold Paul, who bought Paul, what exactly did they get; what payment did the seller receive? What is sin; murder is sin; adultery is sin, but murder is not adultery; sin is the breaking of the spiritual Law which makes sin spiritual also
 
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sparow

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There were Pharisees that converted; Paul being one of them. Yeshua personally ministers to Nicodemus about being born again.

I disagree, what would a Pharisee convert from and to; All that was ever asked of the lost sheep was to make the way straight; the Jerusalem church under James ad all the doctrine that the Pharisees should have had.
 
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Mercy74

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I disagree, what would a Pharisee convert from and to; All that was ever asked of the lost sheep was to make the way straight; the Jerusalem church under James ad all the doctrine that the Pharisees should have had.
Yeshua told Nicodemus a Pharisee that he must be "born again". The office of Pharisee was a permanent or perpetual office.
 
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Mercy74

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Sold as a slave to sin, one translation; sold under sin, anther translation. The question is who sold Paul, who bought Paul, what exactly did they get; what payment did the seller receive? What is sin; murder is sin; adultery is sin, but murder is not adultery; sin is the breaking of the spiritual Law which makes sin spiritual also
You have been "purchased" with a price (1Cor 6:20); it was customary for bondservants to be sold for debt or sin (Matthew 18:25). Bondservants worked to repay the debt owed.
 
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sparow

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Yeshua told Nicodemus a Pharisee that he must be "born again". The office of Pharisee was a permanent or perpetual office.



I have to assume that you have assumed that being born again is the conversion you spoke of; I assumed you were using convention previously established in scripture; and it appears I was not familiar with these conventions either.

Out side of scripture, one could cut ones toe nails and say the toe nails are converted from long to short.

Inside of scripture the use is varied; even if we call “born again”
conversion there maybe two types;


John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

John 3:5 (NKJV)
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot ENTER the kingdom of God.

Flesh and blood cannot ENTER into the Kingdom of God, but can flesh SEE the Kingdom of God. When John wrote Rev. did he ENTER or only SEE the Kingdom of God or both?

While some would, I wouldn't call “born again” a conversion but an extrapolation of the covenant for those who were of the covenant.
 
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sparow

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You have been "purchased" with a price (1Cor 6:20); it was customary for bondservants to be sold for debt or sin (Matthew 18:25). Bondservants worked to repay the debt owed.

When one is a bondservant of Christ there is no debt to repay unless faithfulness is considered payment.
 
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Mercy74

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I have to assume that you have assumed that being born again is the conversion you spoke of; I assumed you were using convention previously established in scripture; and it appears I was not familiar with these conventions either.

Out side of scripture, one could cut ones toe nails and say the toe nails are converted from long to short.

Inside of scripture the use is varied; even if we call “born again”
conversion there maybe two types;


John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

John 3:5 (NKJV)
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot ENTER the kingdom of God.

Flesh and blood cannot ENTER into the Kingdom of God, but can flesh SEE the Kingdom of God. When John wrote Rev. did he ENTER or only SEE the Kingdom of God or both?

While some would, I wouldn't call “born again” a conversion but an extrapolation of the covenant for those who were of the covenant.
Can a man enter into his mother's womb to be born the second time?
 
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ralliann

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Paul was a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee (Acts 23:6).

Yes brought up at the feet of Gamaliel...
***Paul a Pharisee
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

***Paul an Apostle of Christ
17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

*** Paul a Pharisee

19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death,
and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

***Paul a Roman
Act 23:

25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.

***Paul the Christian
Act 27:

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.
 
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ralliann

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The purpose of the law is to justify one as righteous. But as Christians (like Abraham), we are justified in righteousness apart from the law. The law would not exist for another 430 years when Abraham was made righteous, so the righteousness he obtained based on faith is truly apart from the law. As "seed" and "descendants" of Abraham, we inherit that righteousness.
I think you see similar here.


De 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

De 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


 
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Mercy74

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I think you see similar here.


De 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

De 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


What righteousness did YHWH give them? Was it not a "part" from the law? You see YHWH gave Israel his holy law (even the 10 commandments); the law is holy, righteous and good (Romans 7:12). Do you have a copy of the 10 commandments like them?
 
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Mercy74

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When one is a bondservant of Christ there is no debt to repay unless faithfulness is considered payment.
Anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). Everyone who sins is breaking G-d's law (1 John 3:4). So faith is a "part" of the law.
 
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Gup20

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What righteousness did YHWH give them? Was it not a "part" from the law? You see YHWH gave Israel his holy law (even the 10 commandments); the law is holy, righteous and good (Romans 7:12). Do you have a copy of the 10 commandments like them?
The Law & the 10 commandments did not exist for another 430 years when God made Abraham righteous for his faith. Therefore we know that God imparts the righteousness based on faith apart from the law.

God promised that righteousness as an inheritance in the everlasting covenant to the seed of the father of many nations.

David also spoke of the man whom God credits righteousness apart from the law when he said “blessed are those who’s lawless deeds have been forgiven ... blessed is the man who’s sin the lord will not take into account.”
 
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Mercy74

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The Law & the 10 commandments did not exist for another 430 years when God made Abraham righteous for his faith. Therefore we know that God imparts the righteousness based on faith apart from the law.

God promised that righteousness as an inheritance in the everlasting covenant to the seed of the father of many nations.

David also spoke of the man whom God credits righteousness apart from the law when he said “blessed are those who’s lawless deeds have been forgiven ... blessed is the man who’s sin the lord will not take into account.”
A motor is a part of the car. Do you agree?
 
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sparow

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Anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). Everyone who sins is breaking G-d's law (1 John 3:4). So faith is a "part" of the law.


Faith is a variation of trust; the Law is part of what we trust or have faith in; the Law determines every thing the King and high Priest does.
 
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Mercy74

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I have to assume that you have assumed that being born again is the conversion you spoke of; I assumed you were using convention previously established in scripture; and it appears I was not familiar with these conventions either.

Out side of scripture, one could cut ones toe nails and say the toe nails are converted from long to short.

Inside of scripture the use is varied; even if we call “born again”
conversion there maybe two types;


John 3:3 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."

John 3:5 (NKJV)
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot ENTER the kingdom of God.

Flesh and blood cannot ENTER into the Kingdom of God, but can flesh SEE the Kingdom of God. When John wrote Rev. did he ENTER or only SEE the Kingdom of God or both?

While some would, I wouldn't call “born again” a conversion but an extrapolation of the covenant for those who were of the covenant.
A man must be "born from above" or "born again" in order to see the kingdom of G-d. The word "vision" means explicitly "to see"; John had a vision in the book of revelation. Certain things were revealed to John. We know the word "born" means to be given life. Nicodemus the Pharisee needed to be given life from above or to be given life again. Can a man enter into his mother's womb the second time to be born again? Yes indeed! A man must be born of water and spirit. The flesh give birth to flesh; the spirit gives birth to spirit. Those born of the spirit are like the wind, you hear the sound but you do now know where they come from or where they are going. In order to enter the kingdom of G-d you must born of flesh and spirit. Adam entered that beautiful garden in Eden, the tree of life was in the middle of the garden.Yeshua ascended into the cloud. Adam became a living soul; Adam was given life from the spirit or "breath of life", then G-d placed him in the garden (Genesis 2:8). Adam after he was given the breath of life he could ENTER the kingdom or "garden" of G-d.
 
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