The beginning of all things-How something came out of nothing

klutedavid

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Simply because science cannot observe or measure the singularity. The singularity is not a repeatable event that can be verified by any experiment in science. The singularity cannot even be accurately defined by science.

Science will never know whether the singularity even existed, the singularity will always be just a concept, an idea. The singularity represents more of a philosophical bookend in science.

Initial singularity, a hypothesized singularity of infinite density before quantum fluctuations caused the Big Bang and subsequent inflation that created the Universe. (wikipedia)
 
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klutedavid

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If science is silent over everything before the big bang then it should be silent regarding the origin of mankind
The fossil record provides observable evidence to support the theory of evolution. Whereas the initial cause of the Big Bang is an entirely unknowable process or event.

Both the cause of the first life form and the cause of the Big Bang are beyond the reach of empirical science.
 
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JAL

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What is "errant philosophies." Gerald Lawrence Schroeder is an Orthodox Jewish physicist, author, lecturer and teacher at College of Jewish Studies Aish HaTorah's Discovery Seminar, Essentials and Fellowships programs and Executive Learning Center, who focuses on what he perceives to be an inherent relationship between science and spirituality.

Schroeder received his BSc in 1959, his MSc in 1961, and his PhD in nuclear physics and earth and planetary sciences in 1965, from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).[2] He worked five years on the staff of the MIT physics department. He was a member of the United States Atomic Energy Commission.[3]

He is the ONLY OEC that I know of. (old earth creationism) Even though most everyone accepts that the universe is 14 billion years old. Schroeder is the only one that can get this to line up with the Bible.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe
Well I'm an OEC and, looking at his article, his overcomplication of Genesis strikes me as nonsense. Here's why. Suppose I go into a room and shut the door. Inside, I blow up a balloon. The balloon has now expanded. Does this prove that space itself has stretched? For example, is the room itself now of larger square footage than before? That's nonsense. The redistribution ('expansion') of particles does not prove that Reality itself has enlarged ('stretched' to use Gerald Schroeder's term), in support of some bizarre, humanly incomprehensible gibberish about the expansion of space and time.

Here's a much more simple reading of Genesis. In Genesis 1, God defined a day as a period of darkness followed by a period of light - NOT as 24 hours. So where did the light come from? Not the sun, because it wasn't set in place until the 4th Day. All bibles and commentators refer 2Cor 4:4-6 back to Genesis 1. Therefore it was the (physical!) Light from Christ's face. Thus God shined His own face into the galaxy, and quenched it, six times, over 4 billion years, as to lay down His own six-day workweek as a model for us to follow, with rest on the seventh Daylight. His Light is still shining (it illuminates the heavenly city or example) and thus the 7th Galactic Daylight is still shining (it's eternal).

Over that 4 billion years, His Light also provided local 24 hour daylights to the earth, including photosynthesis to the plants, until our sun was set in place on the 4th Galactic Day.

Even a child can understood that reading. No need for a bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo that even the physicists themselves cannot possibly comprehend.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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By proposing the 'Big Bang' theory, the scientists agree that something can come out of nothing but do not understand how something came out of nothing. The bible has the answer. This video by harvest media explains how it is possible for something to come out of nothing. Watch it by clicking the link below and share your views.

It is possible that there is no such thing as "nothingness"; nonexistence. God has always existed so creating from"nothing" is a misnomer. When we start from this premise, we can begin to understand that God created out of His existence and not from nonexistence or nothing.
Be blessed.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It is possible that there is no such thing as "nothingness"; nonexistence. God has always existed so creating from"nothing" is a misnomer. When we start from this premise, we can begin to understand that God created out of His existence and not from nonexistence or nothing.
Be blessed.
Or
Since Yahuweh Sovereign Creator IS SPIRIT, not flesh, nor physical,
everything physical He Created as Written
out of nothing - no energy, no solids, no matter, no plasma, no anything -
out of nothing,
He created everything that is created,
and without Jesus was not anything made that was made.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Since Yahuweh Sovereign Creator IS SPIRIT, not flesh, nor physical,
everything physical He Created as Written
out of nothing - no energy, no solids, no matter, no plasma, no anything -
out of nothing,
He created everything that is created,
and without Jesus was not anything made that was made.
Spirit is energy.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Not according to Yahuweh nor His Word.
Then you will have a difficult time explaining how the power of the Holy Spirit works in our life.
“When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:1-4.
Be blessed.
 
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JackRT

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If ever fossils proved evolution was truth, (it apparently or obviously still is not), it would no longer be a theory. As it is , it has been a theory changed every six moths when proven wrong as it stood.

The Theory of Evolution was first formerly proposed in 1859. So
it has served as a robust theory for the development of life on earth for 160 years in spite of numerous determined efforts to refute it. It is true that not all theories are that durable.
Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No.
 
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JAL

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The Theory of Evolution was first formerly proposed in 1859. So
it has served as a robust theory for the development of life on earth for 160 years in spite of numerous determined efforts to refute it. It is true that not all theories are that durable.
Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No.
Seriously? The BBT extrapolates to a singularity, which itself is mumbo-jumbo. A 'theory' totally incomprehensible is not a theory. It's gibberish. And, in my opinion, both theories laughably overlook the only real physical force in existence, staring the physicists right in the face.

Here's a simple cosmogony. I only believe in matter (i.e. tangible substance of some kind), which can neither be created nor destroyed. BTW, time can't go infinitely backwards because, if an infinite amount of time had to transpire before today, today would not never have been reached.

Based on those two simple, common-sense principles, reality extrapolates to matter in an original shape/state, prior to its first motion. That first motion is the beginning of time. (I don't believe in time as a separate-reality, I only believe in matter-in-motion, and counted motions are called 'the passing of time').

Ok so what physical force initiated that first motion? I see only two possibilities. One is randomness. Perhaps reality is chaotic, such that matter moves at random. The second is the one mentioned earlier - the one staring physicists right in the face.

Suppose you punched me in the face. What propelled the punch? Physicists would have you to believe that ordinary matter is an inert mass impelled only by cause-effect. In that case, I'd have to blame your physiology. I couldn't blame YOU. Moreover, if cause-effect were the only propellant, that first motion would have been impossible.

The correct answer is free will. Free will is that physical force which moves matter. (Even gravity is the material hand of God impelled by His own free will, 'sustaining all things by the (physical) Word of His power' (says Hebrews). He holds the stars in place.

Back to cosmogony. I refer to the original sum total of matter as the Totality. By an act of free will, a mass of matter in the Totality began to move, as a fetus awakens to full consciousness in a womb. (Matter is inherently conscious but must awaken to full consciousness).

That mass of matter is the Being that we now know as Yahweh. And He found himself all alone, in unbearable solitary confinement - so unbearable that He planned ahead to build a church for Himself eventually (out of the leftover matter). More expediently, this Ancient of Days spent extraordinary amounts of time honing his knowledge and His skills in order to serve as ruler and judge over the Totality - at least 13 billion years honing His skills. He is the ultimate peace-keeper. He has no magical powers. His only propellant is the same as ours - free will.

- He's huge. He formed our universe (and our own physical souls) out of the leftover matter.
- Understand He NEEDED a bride with free will, for fear that if the loneliness were to eventually cause a mental breakdown of some kind, or even a regression into unholiness, He might become the ultimate Abuser (viz. rape for example) instead of the ultimate peace-keeper.

Despite appearances, then, matter is self-propelling. Why then can't I fly? Because God has trapped my soul in my body by His own Hand.

If you've ever had a pet, you should realize they are not mere cause-effect machines. They have free will. They have a soul. Therefore they too, SHOULD be able to fly. Advocates of ToE would have you to believe that speciation can be explained without God. Nonsense. Without His Hand placing material souls in material bodies and trapping them there, the ecosystem as we know it would cease to exist.

Interestingly it seems to require more faith to believe in ToE than in creationism. Why so? Because for example, evolutionists claim that mutations persist by selective advantage. Whence, then, the complex reproductive systems of human male and female? I mean, isn't this supposed to be a slow process? Thus males, let's suppose, evolved first, and then, slowly, over thousands of years, females evolved? But why would the male reproductive organs confer a selective advantage? Not sure why you guys believe this stuff. Perhaps you'll reply that the blue print developed slowly in the genes over billions of years. But here again, it takes great faith to believe that mutations in the blueprint would confer a selective advantage.

BTW, it seems clear to me that atheism is a religion because it requires an enormous amount of faith. Everyone I know has parents. Hence I'm inclined to extrapolate back to a First Parent, who parented Adam and Eve for example. To trade this simple theory for one based on a chaotic, random evolution requires huge amounts of faith.

To summarize, I must perforce reject your assessment:
Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence.
 
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JackRT

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- Understand He NEEDED a bride with free will, for fear that if the loneliness were to eventually cause a mental breakdown of some kind, or even a regression into unholiness, He might become the ultimate Abuser (viz. rape for example) instead of the ultimate peace-keeper.

So God is not perfect?
 
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JAL

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So God is not perfect?
I gave you a quick answer without really looking at the part you cited. You cited me as writing:

'Understand He NEEDED a bride with free will, for fear that if the loneliness were to eventually cause a mental breakdown of some kind, or even a regression into unholiness, He might become the ultimate Abuser (viz. rape for example) instead of the ultimate peace-keeper.'

By 'perfect' you mean, in part, a God without any needs, a God who is infinitely self-sufficient. That stance is irrevocably stranded in the Problem of Evil, even though the theologians have been too intellectually dishonest to admit it.

Why so? Because only a jerk, if infinitely self-sufficient, would make a world where it is possible for billions of people to goto hell. Just for the fun of it.

This world makes sense only if God NEEDED us to have free will. This implies a being with limitations, as my cosmogony implies.

But these are not crippling limitations. For example, who is going to overthrow Him? You? Me? If not us, then who? He holds billions of galaxies in the palm of His Hand....
 
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Anguspure

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By proposing the 'Big Bang' theory, the scientists agree that something can come out of nothing but do not understand how something came out of nothing. The bible has the answer. This video by harvest media explains how it is possible for something to come out of nothing. Watch it by clicking the link below and share your views.

God spoke. That is not nothing. The Universe was created from the very energy of the utterance of God Himself.
 
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Bonface Khatete

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I gave you a quick answer without really looking at the part you cited. You cited me as writing:

'Understand He NEEDED a bride with free will, for fear that if the loneliness were to eventually cause a mental breakdown of some kind, or even a regression into unholiness, He might become the ultimate Abuser (viz. rape for example) instead of the ultimate peace-keeper.'

By 'perfect' you mean, in part, a God without any needs, a God who is infinitely self-sufficient. That stance is irrevocably stranded in the Problem of Evil, even though the theologians have been too intellectually dishonest to admit it.

Why so? Because only a jerk, if infinitely self-sufficient, would make a world where it is possible for billions of people to goto hell. Just for the fun of it.

This world makes sense only if God NEEDED us to have free will. This implies a being with limitations, as my cosmogony implies.

But these are not crippling limitations. For example, who is going to overthrow Him? You? Me? If not us, then who? He holds billions of galaxies in the palm of His Hand....
My perception is that hell is a place of separition from God's glory, it is the place of the devil. If someone does not want to work with God he chooses to work with the enemy and thus it is not God who is to be blamed when he withdraws all his glory and separates from them, this world in itself would have turned into a hell if God had not continually put things into control. You do not want to be at a place where every good thing that comes from God is not available.
 
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Bonface Khatete

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Sinless? Yes. Blameless? Yes. Flawless as a ruler? Yes. Has He perfectly realized His full potential for virtue? Yes. Unable to fail us in any way? Yes.

Infinite? No.
What is your justification for saying no to infinite?
 
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Bonface Khatete

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The fossil record provides observable evidence to support the theory of evolution. Whereas the initial cause of the Big Bang is an entirely unknowable process or event.

Both the cause of the first life form and the cause of the Big Bang are beyond the reach of empirical science.
Science can only explain what was created, it will never be able to explain what created it
 
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JAL

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What is your justification for saying no to infinite?
Multitudinous. Several justifications. I already supplied one. An infinitely self-sufficient God wouldn't need a world of suffering or potential suffering. And thus He, if infinitely loving and merciful, wouldn't create this world.

You replied that God isn't to be blamed for men freely choosing to go to hell. But out of kindness, even I myself wouldn't force them into a world of such temptation, if I were an infinite God. Temptation is a form of suffering (viz the agony of temptation), and thus needless temptation flatly contradicts the concept of infinite mercy.

Futhermore after Lucifer sinned - or at least Adam and Eve - why not put all this temptation to an end? Why prolong it? The Problem of Evil is atheism's most effective objection to theism and can be stated like this:
(1) An infinitely powerful God CAN eliminate evil/suffering
(2) An infinitely benevolent God is COMMITTED to eliminating evil/suffering.
(3) Evil/suffering persists year after year after year.
(4) Therefore God (as so defined) does not exist.
 
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