What is the Good News to a Secular World?

Anguspure said:

Where is God in all of that?

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God has lonely toil and struggle with more obligation and responsibility to look forward to.

Anguspure said:

Thanks for your encouragement. I also would and do take whatever fellowship I can get. Unfortunately it isn't all that available.

I have considered a change of career, tried to move while I was still with my wife. Unfortunately because of the financial burden of being a father the path did not open for me. Now it is at least as bad due to the lovely feminazi system we have devised in our country. Except for extenuating circumstances I cannot escape without being rendered completely destitute, as many men are.

After 32 years mostly in the company of men (and before that not a lot of luck either) the very last thing I want to do is find myself in the company of more men. I have never understood the love that men have for the company of their own gender while holding the company of women with disdain. All I have ever longed for is the feminine in life, clearly that is not Gods Will however.

So if there is a point to this loneliness and isolation that I have been subject to to a greater or lesser degree since I was 13, I would sure like to know. The number of men, particularly Christian men I know who are in the same boat is horrifying, and all the Church seems to be able to do is get all hand wavy and ethereal talking about teaching and knowledge when all a guy might want is a hug. Of course what a man, who has been married for any period, is really gagging for most of the time is verboten in such circles and we are all expected to become happy eunuchs.

So as I prepare to get off this rattly tub there is precious little attractive to look forward to during the coming weeks. Certainly nothing that comes from following Christ. So while all around me can't wait to get home to their loved ones and the ones who Love them, the believer has only lonely toil and struggle with more obligation and responsibility to look forward to.

Where is God in all of that?

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"Seek first the kingdom of God............." I've been through similar patches in my life. Not seeing my kids for 15 years, not knowing if I'd ever see them at all, was hard. Yet once I submitted to God's will in the matter, it became easier. I left the mainstream church about 35 years ago. I'm in a home based group. We have a closeness and reality in Christ that I've never found in the denominational scene. It is also more difficult in some ways. You cannot hide in such a small group. Get together with some of the other isolated men. If you are not finding what you want, maybe God is calling you to start something. Don't let it become a pity party. Have Bible studies, pray for one another help each other. Getting your focus off yourself is the best antidote to self pity. And don't let it become a whinge session.
I know it's tough when you've had a normal sex life. God's grace really is sufficient.

Anguspure said:

I hear you, and what you have been through sounds much harder than what I am experiencing.
The kingdom doesn't look very attractive at the moment, and if I am honest the only time it has ever looked attractive was during 3 months in 1997 and another 2 weeks in 2014.
If I walk the other way I will have people to hang out with and enjoy life with during the short times that I am not at work. I will be able to sit down and have a beer or a coffee with someone without it all turning poisonous and serious, and I might even have a chance of meeting somebody that I can be with (something the Church seems completely unable to offer).
The only manner in which God's grace is sufficient for the last 35 years has been in hoping that He turns a blind eye to my regular addiction. Certainly He doesn't seem interested in helping the situation.
But the very last thing I want to do after living a life at sea with men is hang around with other men. A few years ago a brother of mine and I founded a group for guys coming out of the gangs. The truth is that it isn't much of a group, probably for the same reason. The love of a man just doesn't cut it. God created Adam and Eve to be one, not Adam and Steve.
To suggest to my colleagues that I was looking forward to grunting around with groups of men after a trip at sea would have them reeling in mirth or just plain disgusted.

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I'm not suggesting grunting around with other men. I know what you mean, life with navy guys was really rough. I found it hard to adapt when I left the navy.

I would urge you to look at the long term picture. This life is a blink of an eye compared with the next. What we do now sets us up for eternity. God knows you, all your needs, your trials and the reason why you are going through them. Sometime we have to cast all that we are, all the problems, all our desires, all our ambitions at His feet and tell Him that He can have it all. I had a vision when I was going through this stage. I saw myself like a kid with a bag of treasures - cricket ball, penknife, torch, string, whistle ad such. God asked me to hand myself over to Him. I started giving this and that, slowly, reluctantly. The Lord said to me, "Just give Me the bag!" So I did. We have to come to an end of ourselves. I gave many things for real. Music was one, competitive sport was another, and my ambitions to be something in life. In the last few years, some of those things have been restored. Not all. I still don't play sport. I'm not fit enough anyway. God wants us to serve Him because he is God, not because He is some kind of divine Santa handing out gifts. Many people want God for what He can do for them. Paul Washer put it well: many people want to go to heaven - as long as God is not there. This "come to Jesus, He has a wonderful plan for your life" is just salesmanship. Lord Jesus said that we enter God's kingdom through tribulation. I did not see that in the brochure! When we get our priorities right, God will release His blessings. I found my kids after 15 years by a miracle. We are not close, but I know they are ok. We prayed for my son. He was cleaning barrels in a recycling centre. He applied for a job with Apple, along with thousands of others. He's been there 6 years now.
If you will accept Jesus as Lord as well as Saviour, things will change for the better. If God finds no reason to withhold a blessing, He will release it. We need to humble ourselves. Complaining to God is ok. Complaining about God just digs the hole deeper.
I was not suggesting "grunting around" with other men. I was involved in a men's group that was just a "compare notes as to how hard done by we are" meeting. I did not stay. We need real Christian fellowship. If you do not find that in a church, start something yourself. I know of a motorcycle ministry. Men are being helped, healed, born again and encouraged. They started small and ended up with 50 or more. I know your circumstances are a little different, but you know what I am saying.

timothyu said:

Jesus said:

Mark 16: 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Which gospel?

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Mark 1: 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

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I wasn't asking the question myself more than answering it for the OP. That's why I posted the
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 scripture.

Those verses literally tell you what the gospel is. It's not just the "good news" people seem to say all the time. Ya, it is good news, but what exactly, I usually ask those people (to see if they know the answer).

Quite simply, it is the "death, burial, and resurrection" of Christ. Everything else falls into line with that gospel knowledge. That is the "good news".

Thanks for putting up supporting scripture though.

The greek word for "gospel" does indeed mean "good news". Unfortunately, people dont read enough of scripture (or at all) to figure out that Paul specifically stated "WHAT" the "good news" actually is.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

It specifically defines the "good news" (gospel) as the "death", "burial", and "resurrection" of Christ. It also states after verse 4, the many, many witnesses to this event. In Jewish culture and tradition, you needed two or three witnesses. Christ had quite a bit more if you continue reading =) .

Acts2:38 said:

That is the "good news".

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I understand but must ask: who changed it from the complete Kingdom gospel to only part of it, avoiding separation of the world of man and Kingdom as being opposing ideals thus allowing governance of man more importance in Christian life than governance of God?? How else could the religion partner itself with the world of man 1700 years ago contrary to the Gospel of the Kingdom? Resurrection will determine which path was followed and judge accordingly.

timothyu said:

Understood. It never seems to happen in large numbers does it. A 'band of brothers' here, a 'band of brothers' there. What separates them from the ashore group? The ashore group is institutionalised and governed by man. The 'bands of brothers' are not institutionalised and tend to work as equals. It is difficult to have an institution serve the Kingdom as they are built upon the ways of man.

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Whatever Bible you use, it was published by some institution. Unless God dropped His Word from heaven right into your hands, your Bible was the published by some institution. And your pastor has probably received his training in the Bible from a Bible college or a seminary, both being institutions. Institutions are necessary for our missionary efforts. It is not an either-or but a both-and. We must be organized and yet must depend on God. Dependence on God without organization and preparation is not dependence on God but dependence on our feelings.

God gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers (Ephesian 4:11). This sounds to me as an organization. God has instituted His Church. And His will is that it be organized.

packermann said:

God has instituted His Church. And His will is that it be organized.

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Actually man institutionalised His church, modelling it after the hierarchy of the Roman Empire, which of course modelled all institutions of man. His will was not institutionalised religion, but a way of life that loved all as self, putting the will of God before man's. Of course man just had to reverse that and govern it and the governance of man superseded the governance (kingdom) of God. It's what adversarial mankind does.

But God knowing we would hijack Jesus' work, used our self made religion to forward His truth in scriptures. It is His truth Jesus said his church was built upon, not man's created religions.

timothyu said:

I understand but must ask: who changed it from the complete Kingdom gospel to only part of it, avoiding separation of the world of man and Kingdom as being opposing ideals thus allowing governance of man more importance in Christian life than governance of God?? How else could the religion partner itself with the world of man 1700 years ago contrary to the Gospel of the Kingdom? Resurrection will determine which path was followed and judge accordingly.

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I would encourage you to read some more of Church history. For instance, the Bible was not officially compiled until 405 AD. There were 19 gospels at that time. The Church chose only four gospels into the Bible. If the Church partnered itself with the world of man 1700 years ago and yet this worldly Church determined what should be in the Bible only 1600 years ago then how can you trust that Bible?

timothyu said:

Actually man institutionalised His church, modelling it after the hierarchy of the Roman Empire, which of course modelled all institutions of man. His will was not institutionalised religion, but a way of life that loved all as self, putting the will of God before man's. Of course man just had to reverse that and govern it and the governance of man superseded the governance (kingdom) of God. It's what adversarial mankind does.

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How did you get the Bible that you read if it was not from some institution? Did God drop it into your hands?

packermann said:

and yet this worldly Church determined what should be in the Bible only 1600 years ago then how can you trust that Bible?

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You are trying to put church before scripture. It was scripture that defined church and what Jesus defined as church determined nothing. Man did that, but God's truth still resides in these scriptures no matter how manipulated they were in order and perhaps wording..

packermann said:

How did you get the Bible that you read if it was not from some institution? Did God drop it into your hands?

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That is what I said. God knew the nature of the gentile church and used it for his purpose in forwarding scripture that said put His will first (the Kingdom of God) and love all as self, while they merrily built doctrine, philosophised thus creating theology and set up rituals that have nothing to do with the two commandments while building their own little kingdom. Scripture was not commissioned by the church, it was just officially assembled. It pre-existed.

packermann said:

How did you get the Bible that you read if it was not from some institution? Did God drop it into your hands?

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Jesus PRAISED THE FATHER SOVEREIGN CREATOR YAHWEH ELOHIM,
for "REVEALING!" Salvation and everything concerning Salvation to little children, for thus it is His Good Pleasure So To Do !
Whenever Yahweh the Creator REVEALS something, it is BEST to believe HIM! (and not men nor mankind)....

timothyu said:

You are trying to put church before scripture. It was scripture that defined church and what Jesus defined as church determined nothing. Man did that, but God's truth still resides in these scriptures no matter how manipulated they were in order and perhaps wording..

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No, that is not true. The Church started either at the Cross or Pentecost. In either case, it was years before the first New Testament document was written.

You still did not answer my question. If the Church became worldly 1700 years ago and the Church determined what should go into the Bible 100 years later then why should you trust it? Did God drop the Bible into your hands?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Jesus PRAISED THE FATHER SOVEREIGN CREATOR YAHWEH ELOHIM,
for "REVEALING!" Salvation and everything concerning Salvation to little children, for thus it is His Good Pleasure So To Do !
Whenever Yahweh the Creator REVEALS something, it is BEST to believe HIM! (and not men nor mankind)....

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But how do you know that God revealed His truth in the Book of Mormon or the Koran? Is it based on a feeling that you have?

timothyu said:

That is what I said. God knew the nature of the gentile church and used it for his purpose in forwarding scripture that said put His will first (the Kingdom of God) and love all as self, while they merrily built doctrine, philosophised thus creating theology and set up rituals that have nothing to do with the two commandments while building their own little kingdom. Scripture was not commissioned by the church, it was just officially assembled. It pre-existed.

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Fine, the Church just officially assembled it. But could they have assembled the Bible in error?

packermann said:

You still did not answer my question.

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post #74

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Jesus PRAISED THE FATHER SOVEREIGN CREATOR YAHWEH ELOHIM,
for "REVEALING!" Salvation and everything concerning Salvation to little children, for thus it is His Good Pleasure So To Do !
Whenever Yahweh the Creator REVEALS something, it is BEST to believe HIM! (and not men nor mankind)....

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But how do know when God reveals it? How do you know it was not the book of Mormon?