Allegedly, Patriarch Bartholomew says there is no doctrinal difference between Orthodox and Catholic

According to the Greek National Herald, in a separate and unrelated event earlier this week, Patriarch Bartholomew allegedly told officials at a Georgian University that he appreciated their "good relations with the local Roman Catholic community". He went on to say that, "dialogue with other Christians and, in particular, with the Roman Catholic Church is one of the priorities of the Ecumenical Patriarchate."

Phronema said:

Agreed, and FWIW here's a more neutral source reporting on the same story, and it comes across as sounding a bit more normal. Although I'm not sure what prompted the visit.

Also, of note the Abbots of the Athonite monasteries weren't mentioned at all in the more neutral source.

Ecumenical Patriarch visited Notre-Dame de Saint-Rémy Abbey in Rochefort

Click to expand...

The meeting the OP linked to with three abbots present was held on Athos. Precisely because an explanation was needed as to why the archimandrite of Pantocratoros was going to (or it already happened) concelebrated at a Roman catholic monastery.

The link in your post is about the actual vesper service in Belgium. Present at that event were the two Archimandrites Alexios and Gabriel of the monasteries of Xenophontos and Pantocratoros (Ephraim was not present at that):
Log into Facebook | Facebook

buzuxi02 said:

The meeting the OP linked to with three abbots present was held on Athos. Precisely because an explanation was needed as to why the archimandrite of Pantocratoros was going to (or it already happened) concelebrated at a Roman catholic monastery.

The link in your post is about the actual vesper service in Belgium. Present at that event were the two Archimandrites Alexios and Gabriel of the monasteries of Xenophontos and Pantocratoros.

Log into Facebook | Facebook

Click to expand...

So it doesn't seem any kind of strange to you that no video, or microphones were allowed at this particular event in question, and the Union of Orthodox Journalists have conventionally been entirely sympathetic at every turn to the MP in the Ukraine? Not suspect at all?

For the record, I think both Patriarchs are being pressured by secular idiots, and as such this is a sad situation. It's not edifying for me, and this will likely be my final post on this issue.

GoingByzantine said:

According to the Greek National Herald, in a separate and unrelated event earlier this week, Patriarch Bartholomew allegedly told officials at a Georgian University that he appreciated their "good relations with the local Roman Catholic community". He went on to say that, "dialogue with other Christians and, in particular, with the Roman Catholic Church is one of the priorities of the Ecumenical Patriarchate."

Click to expand...

I'm not a supporter of ecumenism, of course. Having open dialogue with Roman Catholics doesn't make someone an ecumenist otherwise St. Mark of Ephesus would be a heretic.

The abbots of Pantocrator and Xenophontos are the biggest supporters of the Ukrainian schismatics on Mt. Athos. No surprise that they would go along with this, and indeed, soon after Abbot Alexios was in a Catholic altar with the Patriarch. Archimandrite Ephraim of Vatopedi has kind of been all over the map on that question.

If you follow the UOJ, they are typically a reliable source, and OrthoChristian did not report it as THIS DEFINITELY HAPPENED, but rather reported what the UOJ was reporting.

Platina said:

If you follow the UOJ, they are typically a reliable source

Click to expand...

This very statement is subjective. WHO considers them a reliable source? I mean, they're obviously slanted in their reporting if you take 5 minutes and read the stories on their site

Guys I have to be candid here. I'm usually against the Ecumenical Patriarch's actions and pro Moscow Patriarch's actions, but stories like this one seem shady to me, and very fabricated in the sense that they're spinning what actually happened into something else. Calling it how I see it, as I've posted a more neutral source earlier in the thread, and all the "additions" are odd to me.

Phronema said:

This very statement is subjective. WHO considers them a reliable source? I mean, they're obviously slanted in their reporting if you take 5 minutes and read the stories on their site

Click to expand...

I mean the stories they report are corroborated by other sources. They don't just run wild with clickbait that turns out to be totally false. Of course, they are canonical Ukrainians, so they have that "bias," but often their articles about the Epiphany-led OCU come straight from the OCU official site or diocesan sites.

That doesn't prove this given story is true, of course, but having sources is how journalists work. All of the more active Orthodox news outlets work that way. Romfea often refers to its "sources" as does the UOJ, RIA-Novosti, etc.

Platina said:

I mean the stories they report are corroborated by other sources. They don't just run wild with clickbait that turns out to be totally false. Of course, they are canonical Ukrainians, so they have that "bias," but often their articles about the Epiphany-led OCU come straight from the OCU official site or diocesan sites.

Click to expand...

Fair enough.

You don't think there are politics on both sides of this issue? The US, and Russia are at it again, and Orthodox Christians are being used as pawns. This is such a tragedy.

Certainly there are politics on both sides, but, as for my opinion, I think if we focus on the Church side of it, it is clear which side is correct overall. I say overall, because, for instance, I don't know the whole past 30 years of Ukrainian history. Is there more the canonical Church could have done to heal the schisms? That's quite possible.

Platina said:

Certainly there are politics on both sides, but, as for my opinion, I think if we focus on the Church side of it, it is clear which side is correct overall. I say overall, because, for instance, I don't know the whole past 30 years of Ukrainian history. Is there more the canonical Church could have done to heal the schisms? That's quite possible.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to point any blame. I'm only asking that our Patriarchs act as brothers, and solve the issue peaceably, and leave secular/worldly politics at the door.

Nonetheless, I'm sure it's not that easy. Prayers for all who are involved, and especially the people of Ukraine who are living the repercussions of others pride.

Phronema said:

Nonetheless, I'm sure it's not that easy. Prayers for all who are involved, and especially the people of Ukraine who are living the repercussions of others pride.

Click to expand...

Wholeheartedly concur! There's such a push to make this a Moscow vs. Constantinople thing, that the suffering Ukrainians are completely forgotten.

Phronema said:

Can anyone even actually confirm that the 3 abbots listed are even present at this Vespers service? Supposedly Abbots Gabriel, Ephraim, and Alexios are supposed to all be present, and I don't see them there in the pictures listed on the neutral site?

Does anyone else see them there?

Click to expand...

Just noticed this post. The picture is of a Vespers service at the Catholic abbey, while the UOJ story is about something that was supposed to have been said on Mt. Athos.

Orthodox Times does not mention that Abbot Alexios was at the Vespers service, but he is clearly seen in the pictures.

Platina said:

Just noticed this post. The picture is of a Vespers service at the Catholic abbey, while the UOJ story is about something that was supposed to have been said on Mt. Athos.

Orthodox Times does not mention that Abbot Alexios was at the Vespers service, but he is clearly seen in the pictures.

Click to expand...

Is it possible the great deceiver is at work dividing the greatest, and last bastion of Christianity?

Absolutely. Of course, we know he won't prevail against the Church, but nothing says he won't succeed in making it smaller. Nativity Fast is the perfect time for us to step up our game and spiritually prepare for all his wiles!

Phronema said:

So it doesn't seem any kind of strange to you that no video, or microphones were allowed at this particular event in question, and the Union of Orthodox Journalists have conventionally been entirely sympathetic at every turn to the MP in the Ukraine? Not suspect at all?

Click to expand...

The Ep and abbots participating would have to give an explanation to the other monks as to what's going on and why their top monks are concelebrating . That the EP may of not wanted it recorded or word getting out about this speech is entirely plausible. The zealots would have thrown him into the Aegean.

It's not like he hasn't done far more egregious things in the past. The only difference is he's now saying what he's been saying for decades on Athos.

buzuxi02 said:

The Ep and abbots participating would have to give an explanation to the other monks as to what's going on and why their top monks are concelebrating . That the EP may of not wanted it recorded or word getting out about this speech is entirely plausible. The zealots would have thrown him into the Aegean.

It's not like he hasn't done far more egregious things in the past. The only difference is he's now saying what he's been saying for decades on Athos.

Click to expand...

You present very good points, and I'll be watching intently.

It just seems strange that the same pictures came from two different sources with different narratives. I'll keep my eyes open.

buzuxi02 said:

The Ep and abbots participating would have to give an explanation to the other monks as to what's going on and why their top monks are concelebrating . That the EP may of not wanted it recorded or word getting out about this speech is entirely plausible. The zealots would have thrown him into the Aegean.

It's not like he hasn't done far more egregious things in the past. The only difference is he's now saying what he's been saying for decades on Athos.

Click to expand...

One more thing. As a new convert to Orthodoxy (and yes I should keep my mouth shut), I find this sort of squabbling quite historic, and terribly off-putting. I wish these Patriarchs would be Patriarchal, and ya know attempt to practice what Christ, and the Fathers preach. Just my two cents, I'll go back to being quiet.

Keep in mind that while the UOJ is clearly in favor of the canonical Ukrainians, Orthodox Times is clearly in favor of all things EP, and openly works with the backing of the US State Department: US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt: We support Romfea.news’ effort

Phronema said:

You present very good points, and I'll be watching intently.

It just seems strange that the same pictures came from two different sources with different narratives. I'll keep my eyes open.

Click to expand...

The facebook link in my previous post takes you to the official Belgium Chevetoghne monastery page. You can see Alexios and Gabriel in some of the photos they have up. We would all like if these patriarchs went to preaching what Christ and the Fathers preached.