None of These Diseases: I am the Lord who heals you.

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
really have next to no idea what you are about.
Again YOU are guilty of what you accuse others of. Also the discussion has to do with the book: "None of these diseases" by Chris Oyakhilome PhD. I am not going to type the whole chapter in to present the whole teaching and all of the scriptures he uses. You are far to condoning and closed minded to the truth for me to put that sort of effort into this discussion. You have already passed judgement even though you have no idea what it is you are passing judgment on.

The Charismatic Episcopal Church I was a part of believed in life and health and healing. They believed that they could have what the early church had. Even though we are in the end times and the annotating on the latter day church is greater then the early church to bring in the final harvest.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So, what's this have to do with you taking a passage not meant for anyone but Israel and trying shoehorn it what you want it to say?
If you continue to falsely accuse me I am going to report you for a violation of the rules of this forum. Again YOU are the one that is guilty of what you are accusing me of. This is why Jesus tells us to take the log out of our own eye before we attempt to remove the splinter form our brothers eye. It is amazing how you want to flame people when you can not defend your opinions.
 
Upvote 0

charsan

Charismatic Episcopal Church
Jul 12, 2019
2,297
2,115
52
South California
✟62,421.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If you continue to falsely accuse me I am going to report you for a violation of the rules of this forum. Again YOU are the one that is guilty of what you are accusing me of. This is why Jesus tells us to take the log out of our own eye before we attempt to remove the splinter form our brothers eye. It is amazing how you want to flame people when you can not defend your opinions.

I am not falsely accusing you at all, the idea that you think the passage is meant for everyone is in your OP and has been commented on by others. Now if you weren't doing that than I am sorry and I was not flaming anyone but giving my observations.
 
Upvote 0

martymonster

Veteran
Dec 15, 2006
3,418
933
✟175,709.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Christ already explained why we have sickness and suffering in the world. You just need to pay attention.

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RaymondG
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
the idea that you think the passage is meant for everyone
Have you been to Bible college? I have and they teach how we apply the Old Testament to us today. You can do a search on the internet of Bible interpretation. There are guidelines for our we interpret our Bible and how the Bible applies to us and our generation today.

The Bible says: "I am the Lord who heals you". Then somehow someway you want to claim that God does not want to heal people today. Even though we are told the NEW covenant is a better covenant based on better promises. "He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises." (Hebrew 8:6) Yet you want to claim that the New Covenant is not as good as the Old. We are told: "He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes." (Psalm 105:37) I know the health, wealth & prosperity people use this passage a lot. But there is no reason to believe that God does NOT want us healthy and that HE does NOT want us to prosper. This is a double negative. God wants us healthy and God wants us to prosper. He wants us to serve Him and HE has a job for us to do and if people are sick then they can not serve God and do His work.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ already explained why we have sickness and suffering in the world. Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
This confirms that it is God's desire to heal people. "I am the God that healeth thee" (Ex5:26)
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
the idea that you think the passage is meant for everyone
The passage is for who so ever can keep the four conditions of the passage, if anyone can do that. Hebrew letters are made with one, two, three or four pen strokes. Just like the promises of God can have up to four conditions as we see here. If we do our part of the covenant then we can be sure that God will do His part. Everyone ultimately is healed. It is really only a question of when. The resurrection power of God is already at work in us to raise us up from the death. It is a little funny to believe that God can raise us up from death but he can not heal us while we are still alive?
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, but not necessarily physically.
Ok the word: Healeth in Hebrew is: רֹפְאֶֽךָ׃ The word Rapha is רָפָא This is where we get: "Jehovah-Rapha: The God Who Heals" only the letter ךָ׃ is added. This represents the palm of the hand. God has our healing in the palm of His hand if we are ready - willing to receive what He has for us.

Each and every letter in Hebrew is infinite. So we could go on forever developing a understanding of Jehovah-Rapha, the God who heals us. This is why Jesus went to calvery, we are told: "by His stripes we are healed". "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed." (Isaiah53:5)

Here healed begins with the Kuf נִ We are healed, God has already poured out His healing for us. He poured out His love for us when He went to Calvery.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: martymonster
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christ already explained why we have sickness and suffering in the world. You just need to pay attention.
What He told us was: "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (John16:33)
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,865
7,973
NW England
✟1,050,640.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are plenty of people that do not ever get sick.

There are people who do not get sick - and who seem to have easy/good lives - who aren't even Christians.
God heals; no doubt about that. But it is not correct, nor fair, to imply that sickness is a result of disobedience and shows that a person has weak faith.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Leet
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,865
7,973
NW England
✟1,050,640.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Usually a promise from God has only one requirement. In this case the promise has four requirements. We have a covenant relationship with God. If we do our part we can be sure God will do His part.

That implies that a) good health is conditional upon us doing something and continuing to do it and b) that if we stop doing it, mess up or wander off the right path, the Lord says "right, well I'm going to punish your for your sins then."

Neither are correct.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Leet
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That implies that a) good health is conditional upon us doing something and continuing to do it
That is what science tells us. They talk a lot about eating right. But everyone wants to disregard the teaching in the Bible about the foods that we are to avoid. If you reject the Bible and you reject Science then you do not have much to go on.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God heals; no doubt about that. But it is not correct, nor fair, to imply that sickness is a result of disobedience and shows that a person has weak faith.
Those are your words not mine. I said that the promises of God are conditional. IF we need healing then a good place to start is Exodus 15:26 "He said, "If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you." I see four conditions here: 1) Listen carefully to the Lord your God. 2) do what is right in His eyes. 3) pay attention to His commandments. 4) keep all of His decrees. If we do what God tells us to do, then we will get the results He tells us we will get. In this case healing. I am glad you think you know what we are to do. I am not so sure. What does it mean to listen carefully? What does it mean to do right? What are the commandments of God & what are the decrees? How am I suppose to do all of this stuff when I do not even know what it means to do them. We are to be taught by the Holy Spirit of God. He is to be our Guide. WE are not to listen to man. Although we are to be ready with a testimony as to what God is showing us and doing in our life. This is not what someone teaches somewhere. We need to discover truth for ourselves. WE need to be taught by God and not by man.

Can we do what God is telling us to do? Can we follow the teachings of the Bible? I hope we are heading in that direction and getting closer to being the people that God wants us to be.

To say don't bother, don't try, it is a lost cause and it is not going to happen. That sounds like Satan talk to me. We are told we can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,478
2,330
43
Helena
✟206,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
The problems I have with this line of thinking is that newborn infants can be born horribly sick even though they're incapable of sin, they're born in sin inheriting Adam's sinful nature, and they will sin through their life growing up, but they haven't yet, so you either have to believe we are guilty for sins we have not personally done like catholics (original sin doctrine, why they do infant baptisms), or you have to believe that as part of Adam's sinful nature that we inherited, the death as punishment goes right down to the genetic level and genetic mutations, flaws, and diseases become heritable in spite of personal sins committed or not, and that leads to physical death but not spiritual death (a newborn isn't going to hell if they're sick and die)
The other problem I have with it is that you're attributing your health to acts that you did, that's pride. That in itself is sin. You boast "hey I do everything God asks of me and I do all these good things and I never get sick". That's pride, and you're asking for God to take you down a notch with a claim like that.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Flaws and diseases are mostly on purpose, by man, against man woman and child.
Where a newborn goes is up to Yahuweh Sovereign Creator Perfect in Judgment. He already Knows.....
That has been argued for over 1000 years, and no determination made by men. (It is not verifiable from Scripture or anything else available to men.
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,865
7,973
NW England
✟1,050,640.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Those are your words not mine.

I said that that's what your words implied - DO these things and you won't be ill.

IF we need healing then a good place to start is Exodus 15:26

I wouldn't start with Exodus; I'd start by praying to the Lord who heals.

"He said, "If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you."

And who did he say it to; Christians who would live 2000 years later, or Hebrews who had just been brought out of slavery in Egypt and saw all the plagues that the Egyptians suffered because Pharaoh refused to obey God?

I see four conditions here: 1) Listen carefully to the Lord your God. 2) do what is right in His eyes. 3) pay attention to His commandments. 4) keep all of His decrees. If we do what God tells us to do, then we will get the results He tells us we will get. In this case healing.

That latter sentence is the only one I agree with - if we do what God tells us to do. In other words, if he says to pray for healing; pray. If he says to go to a certain healer; go. If he tells you to dip in the Jordan river 7 times (Naaman); then do it.
He asked Jennifer Rees-Larcombe to stop praying for healing; he said he would heal her in his own time, and he did. Jennifer also tells the story of a church prayer group who rushed off to pray for a seriously ill church member. When Jennifer said that they should ask the Lord how he wanted them to pray, they said "well obviously he wants us to pray for her healing." The patient WAS completely healed - she died; and they nearly missed the chance to help her look forward to heaven and being with Jesus, because they were focused on what THEY wanted.
In other places, people have testified that they were praying for Christian loved ones to be healed, and either the patient, or the Lord himself told them not to/they wouldn't be healed while on earth.

I am glad you think you know what we are to do. I am not so sure. What does it mean to listen carefully?

It means to ask God how he wants you to pray for someone, and then do it.
Some have been given words of knowledge about a person - and when that person has got rid of their anger, a grudge, a bad habit or whatever, they've been healed. That was because the Lord revealed to a Christian that someone's specific illness was caused by a specific thing. But it would be wrong to say, "that happened to this person, therefore everyone's illness is caused by their sin and we need to tell them to repent."
It would be wrong also to say that people WILL be healed when they have enough faith/go to a certain healer/make positive confession of faith/confess their sins and all the sins of the past/DO certain things" etc.

How am I suppose to do all of this stuff when I do not even know what it means to do them.

You might not even be meant to do them.
Is it right to assume that you have to do the same as the Hebrews did and relate to God in the same way?
Are you a Hebrew slave, or a Christian child of God?

WE are not to listen to man.

Which means we can ignore most of the threads on these forums - especially those that tell us what we should do.

Can we do what God is telling us to do? Can we follow the teachings of the Bible?

Yes, of course we can.
As long as we understand the Bible correctly and are not pulling verses out of context to try to persuade God that if we do our bit, in terms of faith, etc, he should do his bit and heal us.
Let God be God. Pray for healing - maybe more than once, we are told to be persistent in prayer - but leave the results, and timing, to him.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
And who did he say it to; Christians who would live 2000 years later, or Hebrews who had just been brought out of slavery in Egypt and saw all the plagues that the Egyptians suffered because Pharaoh refused to obey God?
God is still alive, He is not dead!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Which means we can ignore most of the threads on these forums - especially those that tell us what we should do.
Not especially, but yes, certainly, do NOT trust the internet and especially any anonymous sources of problems ... test, test, test everything and do not believe anything UNTIL AFTER it is proven truth in line with all Scripture.
 
Upvote 0