What is the Good News to a Secular World?

Aussie Pete · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
I have been at that point for most of my life and known that just preaching the Gospel at people is a waste of breath, not to mention extremely destructive to a captive community of people.
What does frustrate me though is that as concession people have encouraged me to display the gospel with my life.

Unfortunately this also has been a failure, my life has been absolutely nothing of any use as far as attracting people to the Gospel. Why would anybody want to take on something that consigns a person to years of loneliness and rejection (at the hands of the so called Loving Family of God), followed by screwed up marriages and more loneliness and rejection? I speak of myself but also quite a number of other people I know.

Where is the testimony that Christ spoke of that we would be known by our Love for one another?

I don't know your circumstances. If you've read some of my posts, you will know that I believe that what is called church is pretty much devoid of any sign of the life of Christ, in the western world at least. The main reason for that is anyone can just rock up and get involved. Only around 5% of church goers are born again. They the are the real church. You cannot expect unbelievers/make believers to live a godly life. The fact that you see no love is evidence of my assertion.

"just preaching the Gospel at people is a waste of breath, not to mention extremely destructive to a captive community of people." I don't know what you mean by that.

I was in the RAN when I got saved. As far as I was concerned, church was a place of torture for an hour. I was forced to go for 3 years, between the age of 10 and 13. My boss was a Christian. He preached the gospel to me one evening, while we were at sea. I got born again right then. No church, no "Just as I am", no prayer line, no hype, just the gospel. I was the happiest man on the planet.

I also tried to witness to others. One of my colleagues saw the transformation. He said that he wished that he had my faith. Yet only one person in 3 years came to Christ through me. Oh, talk about a captive community. Being on a ship is about as captive as you get apart from prison.

I started a Bible School, just 6 weeks part time, to help Christians be established in their faith. One of the things I've learned is that the devil will use discouragement as a weapon against us. It's our responsibility as Christians not to give in. Yes, not easy. The Christian life is impossible if we are trying to do the living. Now if we give up and let Christ live instead of us, the burden comes off us and onto Him. If we keep focused on Him and not ourselves,we will have peace, even in the midst of the storms of life. I was in hospital Tuesday night with a heart problem. I'm 68, not quite ready to go. I was in peace the whole way through. My heart came good after our friends prayed.

God permits all kinds of troubles. I say permits. He does not cause those problems. God's intent is to bring us to an end of ourselves. We bring most problems on ourselves. When we quit trying to live the Christian life and let Christ live instead, we will have victory. We won't be exempt from trials - they are necessary - but we will triumph in them.

We recently counselled a woman who was abused, as a child, by her lay preacher dad. She had every reason to reject Christ but she has not. However, the wounds she suffered meant that she took it out on her husband, who was about to pull the pin. Lord Jesus, through us, set her free. Her marriage is restored. One of her close friends told me that they were amazed at the change.

Christ came to set us free and give us abundant life. If that is not your experience, then something is not right. There are a number of articles on our web site that will help you. God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Feel free to email us with any questions. We've had a number of people from interstate come and receive help, including a couple from Perth. It's quicker from Auckland to Melbourne than Melbourne to Perth. We are here to help.

The Living Word - Christian Life Frankston

Anguspure · Nov 28, 2019

redleghunter said:
Do you belong to a church?

I have tried to belong to Church for over 30 years, but what I have to offer is not what they want. I live and work at sea most of the time, and now I have children to care for as a solo Dad while I am not at sea (before that I was a husband to a wife who wasn't interested in Church). Not much good to them really.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
I agree, so where is this way of life? Where is the supernatural intervention of a Loving God for His children. He says that if we ask for a fish He won't give us a snake. I have been praying for that fish for over 30 years and needed it for 9 years before that. All I have received is not the fish.

Well now, the only way to get a fish is to give a fish. The ways of man run contrary to the Kingdom. If one acts in servitude to others one will also reap the benefits of such an action. If one seeks self interest or gain at the expense of another, then the only rewards will be what the world has to offer and the world of man is not a giver but a taker..

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
If a person has had a bad run at the hands of religious people and is skeptical of the hand of a Loving God within the Church, or even on the Earth in general; what good news can I give them?

Beyond the two options man generally gives, there is a third option. If you strive to get ahead in the world of man you will find strife, our feral nature of survival. If you strive to live in the ways of the Kingdom you are utilising your God nature which is not feral in nature but domesticated behaviour. Take from others and others will take from you. Care for others and others will care for you. Interesting the people with the least, often use the latter. Life has been too good to the majority of us and we have lost sight of reality.

We could learn from them. Look at the homeless as an example. They create communities and actually share, mini replicas of the Way that Jesus created. There is nothing there for the greedy to cash in on so, as God intended for man, there is no hierarchy there. Meanwhile, the greedy stick to building the governance and hierarchical institutions of man over other hoarders of what man calls riches.

Anguspure · Nov 28, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
I don't know your circumstances. If you've read some of my posts, you will know that I believe that what is called church is pretty much devoid of any sign of the life of Christ, in the western world at least. The main reason for that is anyone can just rock up and get involved. Only around 5% of church goers are born again. They the are the real church. You cannot expect unbelievers/make believers to live a godly life. The fact that you see no love is evidence of my assertion.

"just preaching the Gospel at people is a waste of breath, not to mention extremely destructive to a captive community of people." I don't know what you mean by that.

I was in the RAN when I got saved. As far as I was concerned, church was a place of torture for an hour. I was forced to go for 3 years, between the age of 10 and 13. My boss was a Christian. He preached the gospel to me one evening, while we were at sea. I got born again right then. No church, no "Just as I am", no prayer line, no hype, just the gospel. I was the happiest man on the planet.

I also tried to witness to others. One of my colleagues saw the transformation. He said that he wished that he had my faith. Yet only one person in 3 years came to Christ through me. Oh, talk about a captive community. Being on a ship is about as captive as you get apart from prison.

I started a Bible School, just 6 weeks part time, to help Christians be established in their faith. One of the things I've learned is that the devil will use discouragement as a weapon against us. It's our responsibility as Christians not to give in. Yes, not easy. The Christian life is impossible if we are trying to do the living. Now if we give up and let Christ live instead of us, the burden comes off us and onto Him. If we keep focused on Him and not ourselves,we will have peace, even in the midst of the storms of life. I was in hospital Tuesday night with a heart problem. I'm 68, not quite ready to go. I was in peace the whole way through. My heart came good after our friends prayed.

God permits all kinds of troubles. I say permits. He does not cause those problems. God's intent is to bring us to an end of ourselves. We bring most problems on ourselves. When we quit trying to live the Christian life and let Christ live instead, we will have victory. We won't be exempt from trials - they are necessary - but we will triumph in them.

We recently counselled a woman who was abused, as a child, by her lay preacher dad. She had every reason to reject Christ but she has not. However, the wounds she suffered meant that she took it out on her husband, who was about to pull the pin. Lord Jesus, through us, set her free. Her marriage is restored. One of her close friends told me that they were amazed at the change.

Christ came to set us free and give us abundant life. If that is not your experience, then something is not right. There are a number of articles on our web site that will help you. God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Feel free to email us with any questions. We've had a number of people from interstate come and receive help, including a couple from Perth. It's quicker from Auckland to Melbourne than Melbourne to Perth. We are here to help.

The Living Word - Christian Life Frankston

Thanks @Aussie Pete. Working up the other end, in the Timor sea, and off to NZ for the kids when I'm not. You are blessed that you had good friends to come and pray. I have been left on my own to deal with a wrecked family. The lack of Love is not with the unbelievers. They have been extraordinary when you consider that they only bring it from themselves.
That is the challenge I have always faced: Accept the camaraderie and fellowship of the secular community (be it on condition of denial of Christ), or consign myself to a lonely and isolated life. I have usually chosen the later and hoped that God would bring me somebody to help when I am not at work. But He has not.
People (Christian people) just don't want to come near, I really don't know why, but I still have to keep going. If I stop living then the whole thing comes down around my ears, which I don't mind for my own sake, but I am not going to put my children on the line for ideology that tells me I would be evil to do such a thing anyway.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
Where is the hospital when I need it? Where is the help? Where is the Loving community?

A good question. Where has the church disappeared to? They seem more intend on building colleges to teach more blind on how to be blind.

Anguspure · Nov 28, 2019

timothyu said:
Well now, the only way to get a fish is to give a fish. The ways of man run contrary to the Kingdom. If one acts in servitude to others one will also reap the benefits of such an action. If one seeks self interest or gain at the expense of another, then the only rewards will be what the world has to offer and the world of man is not a giver but a taker..

Been giving away fish flat out, cost me dearly.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
Accept the camaraderie and fellowship of the secular community (be it on condition of denial of Christ), or consign myself to a lonely and isolated life. I have usually chosen the later and hoped that God would bring me somebody to help when I am not at work. But He has not.

Consider that the Way, Jesus and His followers all lived outside the ruling religion of the day. They were seen as sects, outcasts, yet they were the real followers and they cared for each other. Is that not what Jesus taught us to do. If the institution fails to follow the example of those caring people, then what have you lost? Nothing. The true church has befriended you.

'(be it on condition of denial of Christ)' I'll bet it is on the condition of not being a hypocritical follower of Jesus. People like the love all as self concept, not the hypocrisy of the Church.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
Been giving away fish flat out, cost me dearly.

I think we have to be discerning. Others like your self would not likely take advantage of you. Greedy always will for they do not understand that self interest will be their only reward. Give to those who would give to you. The Kingdom gives, the world of man takes.

Aussie Pete · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
Thanks @Aussie Pete. Working up the other end, in the Timor sea, and off to NZ for the kids when I'm not. You are blessed that you had good friends to come and pray. I have been left on my own to deal with a wrecked family. The lack of Love is not with the unbelievers. They have been extraordinary when you consider that they only bring it from themselves.
That is the challenge I have always faced: Accept the camaraderie and fellowship of the secular community (be it on condition of denial of Christ), or consign myself to a lonely and isolated life. I have usually chosen the later and hoped that God would bring me somebody to help when I am not at work. But He has not.
People (Christian people) just don't want to come near, I really don't know why, but I still have to keep going. If I stop living then the whole thing comes down around my ears, which I don't mind for my own sake, but I am not going to put my children on the line for ideology that tells me I would be evil to do such a thing anyway.

If you want lonely, try 3 years as the only believer on a warship. Surrounded by men with the morality (mostly) of dogs. I am by nature an introvert which did not help. God got me through. I've been saved 48 years. It's been tough at times. I am divorced. I had to deal with the probability that I would never see my children, primary school age at the time. I had really strong Christian friends, which made all the difference. We are not made to live independent lives. Again, the only hope any of us has is Christ. Lord Jesus has been tempted in every way just as we can be. He never sinned, failed or in any way displeased God. When I was alone in the navy, I took whatever fellowship I could get. The Lord even led me to a church in Japan. One of the crew was given an English language tract. He gave it to me, saying that he was not interested. I ended up at a Baptist church in Nagasaki. The American pastor could not have been more helpful and caring. So, many afflictions but the Lord delivered me out of them all.
Have you considered a change of career? For me, the navy was a season. I learned a great deal. Then I left and got involved in the local church. That was a real eye opener and I too, was not all that popular. I have an inclination to tell it like I see it.
Everything we go through as Christians has a point and purpose, on one condition. That we love God. That is easy to say, hard to do - if we are trying. God has put His love in our hearts, so we can choose to love God with the love that He's given us.
Do you study God's word? Do you have daily prayer and praise time? Do you thank Him regularly? I know it easy to back off when things are not going well. But that is the time we most need to stay in tune with God. Otherwise, we end up with spiritual malnutrition and we are easy prey for the enemy.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

When it comes to God, the greedy will say I want a piece of that. But imo the broken are the only ones who can truly appreciate Him and what He has to offer.

redleghunter · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
I have tried to belong to Church for over 30 years, but what I have to offer is not what they want. I live and work at sea most of the time, and now I have children to care for as a solo Dad while I am not at sea (before that I was a husband to a wife who wasn't interested in Church). Not much good to them really.

Given your profession I recommend you contact the Navigators near you.

The Navigators of New Zealand - To know Christ, make Him known and help others do the same

packermann · Nov 28, 2019

Anguspure said:
I have recently been challenged over the question of our mandate to spread the good news to all the world, and whether some of us are active enough in meeting that mandate in our daily lives. But it occurs to me that so very little of what I have to offer anybody (from the point of view of being a Beleiver), is in fact good news.

To a secular world that dislikes and distrusts religion in any form, doubts the very existence of our God or any god and that just wants to get on with day to day life without any mumbo jumbo; what is good about the news that we have to offer?

Back in Roman times, when the army invaded another country and conquered a village, a herald would go through the streets to announce the good news - "You have been liberated from the oppression you experienced. You are now part of the Roman Empire". This may not be quite true, it may be a lot of propaganda, but this is the background of the gospel, the good news.

This good news is more relevant in this secular age. At no other time are we oppressed by the Evil One than now. Oppression is everywhere. Suicide, Homicide, Depression, Alcoholism are on the rise. It is because secular man is without God and without hope. Life is a b____ and then you die!

But it is not just in this life that secular man is miserable. They are in danger of facing eternal misery, unless they turn to God.

timothyu · Nov 28, 2019

packermann said:
At no other time are we oppressed by the Evil One than now.

We are the evil we try and blame on outside forces. If evil can grow at a rapid rate then so can goodness. Look at the sudden changes all over the globe where out of the blue people are rising up and demanding democracy. It is interesting that as the figurehead of democracy is headed to ruin, all the others are rising to take it's place. Will they learn from the failure of their example? Or are they too merely just seeking the riches of a world intent upon itself rather than the freedoms a Kingdom of God would offer.?

packermann · Nov 28, 2019

timothyu said:
We are the evil we try and blame on outside forces. If evil can grow at a rapid rate then so can goodness. Look at the sudden changes all over the globe where out of the blue people are rising up and demanding democracy. It is interesting that as the figurehead of democracy is headed to ruin, all the others are rising to take it's place. Will they learn from the failure of their example? Or are they too merely just seeking the riches of a world intent upon itself rather than the freedoms a Kingdom of God would offer.?

Democracy without Christ is a failure. Adolf Hitler was democratically elected. The "Arab Spring" brought more persecutions to Christians. The U.S. is a democratic country, and we allow the killing of unborn children to the extent that 1 out 4 pregnancies end in an abortion; in Virginia, their democratically elected leaders just passed a bill to allow the killing of a baby after it is born. If everyone is walking in darkness then what good is it to allow them to vote?

Anguspure · Nov 29, 2019

timothyu said:
Consider that the Way, Jesus and His followers all lived outside the ruling religion of the day. They were seen as sects, outcasts, yet they were the real followers and they cared for each other. Is that not what Jesus taught us to do. If the institution fails to follow the example of those caring people, then what have you lost? Nothing. The true church has befriended you.

'(be it on condition of denial of Christ)' I'll bet it is on the condition of not being a hypocritical follower of Jesus. People like the love all as self concept, not the hypocrisy of the Church.

The thing is that the people who have embraced this thinking all seem to be isolationists and mostly men. They are reacting to exactly the sort of abandonment and loneliness that I have encountered and am encountering in the best way they know how, by hardening up and making the Church the enemy.
The truth is that the disciples lived together and loved one another. There is nowhere that I am aware of, that would not have me abandoning my children to fatherlessness, that a person can find this sort of community.
As I have previously written, I have tasted Christian community and found it to be heavenly, and certainly good news worth proclaiming as an example of Christ's body on Earth. It doesn't seem to be something that happens ashore however.

Anguspure · Nov 29, 2019

packermann said:
Back in Roman times, when the army invaded another country and conquered a village, a herald would go through the streets to announce the good news - "You have been liberated from the oppression you experienced. You are now part of the Roman Empire". This may not be quite true, it may be a lot of propaganda, but this is the background of the gospel, the good news.

This good news is more relevant in this secular age. At no other time are we oppressed by the Evil One than now. Oppression is everywhere. Suicide, Homicide, Depression, Alcoholism are on the rise. It is because secular man is without God and without hope. Life is a b____ and then you die!

But it is not just in this life that secular man is miserable. They are in danger of facing eternal misery, unless they turn to God.

I think this is the problem. How can the herald be expected to speak when he himself is oppressed, down trodden and unwanted?

timothyu · Nov 29, 2019

Anguspure said:
It doesn't seem to be something that happens ashore however.

Understood. It never seems to happen in large numbers does it. A 'band of brothers' here, a 'band of brothers' there. What separates them from the ashore group? The ashore group is institutionalised and governed by man. The 'bands of brothers' are not institutionalised and tend to work as equals. It is difficult to have an institution serve the Kingdom as they are built upon the ways of man.

Anguspure · Nov 29, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
If you want lonely, try 3 years as the only believer on a warship. Surrounded by men with the morality (mostly) of dogs. I am by nature an introvert which did not help. God got me through. I've been saved 48 years. It's been tough at times. I am divorced. I had to deal with the probability that I would never see my children, primary school age at the time. I had really strong Christian friends, which made all the difference. We are not made to live independent lives. Again, the only hope any of us has is Christ. Lord Jesus has been tempted in every way just as we can be. He never sinned, failed or in any way displeased God. When I was alone in the navy, I took whatever fellowship I could get. The Lord even led me to a church in Japan. One of the crew was given an English language tract. He gave it to me, saying that he was not interested. I ended up at a Baptist church in Nagasaki. The American pastor could not have been more helpful and caring. So, many afflictions but the Lord delivered me out of them all.
Have you considered a change of career? For me, the navy was a season. I learned a great deal. Then I left and got involved in the local church. That was a real eye opener and I too, was not all that popular. I have an inclination to tell it like I see it.
Everything we go through as Christians has a point and purpose, on one condition. That we love God. That is easy to say, hard to do - if we are trying. God has put His love in our hearts, so we can choose to love God with the love that He's given us.
Do you study God's word? Do you have daily prayer and praise time? Do you thank Him regularly? I know it easy to back off when things are not going well. But that is the time we most need to stay in tune with God. Otherwise, we end up with spiritual malnutrition and we are easy prey for the enemy.

Thanks for your encouragement. I also would and do take whatever fellowship I can get. Unfortunately it isn't all that available.

I have considered a change of career, tried to move while I was still with my wife. Unfortunately because of the financial burden of being a father the path did not open for me. Now it is at least as bad due to the lovely feminazi system we have devised in our country. Except for extenuating circumstances I cannot escape without being rendered completely destitute, as many men are.

After 32 years mostly in the company of men (and before that not a lot of luck either) the very last thing I want to do is find myself in the company of more men. I have never understood the love that men have for the company of their own gender while holding the company of women with disdain. All I have ever longed for is the feminine in life, clearly that is not Gods Will however.

So if there is a point to this loneliness and isolation that I have been subject to to a greater or lesser degree since I was 13, I would sure like to know. The number of men, particularly Christian men I know who are in the same boat is horrifying, and all the Church seems to be able to do is get all hand wavy and ethereal talking about teaching and knowledge when all a guy might want is a hug. Of course what a man, who has been married for any period, is really gagging for most of the time is verboten in such circles and we are all expected to become happy eunuchs.

So as I prepare to get off this rattly tub there is precious little attractive to look forward to during the coming weeks. Certainly nothing that comes from following Christ. So while all around me can't wait to get home to their loved ones and the ones who Love them, the believer has only lonely toil and struggle with more obligation and responsibility to look forward to.

Where is God in all of that?

Anguspure · Nov 29, 2019

timothyu said:
Understood. It never seems to happen in large numbers does it. A 'band of brothers' here, a 'band of brothers' there. What separates them from the ashore group? The ashore group is institutionalised and governed by man. The 'bands of brothers' are not institutionalised and tend to work as equals. It is difficult to have an institution serve the Kingdom as they are built upon the ways of man.

I have spent most of my life in the company of men and did not have a mother present while I was growing up. The idea of a band of brothers ashore frankly turns me cold. I am with all my colleagues on this one. The very last thing a guy wants to do when he gets off a ship is hang around with other men. Unless he is gay, that is.

What is the Good News to a Secular World?

Well-Known Member

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Well-Known Member

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Well-Known Member

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Similar threads