Three predominant views of the salvific process.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 26, 2019

public hermit said:
I'm just playing with you. You do your thing. I believe you heart is in the right place, I just have a hard time, sometimes, deciphering what you're saying. It can take me a bit to catch on.

COOL! Anytime, ask - I am trying more to give an explanation or to be clear...
THANKS!

BNR32FAN · Nov 26, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process, that I like to illustrate metaphorically.

In all cases, we begin as adrift in the sea, in imminent danger of drowning, nothing to cling to.

God as the Happy Party Boat Pilot: God is merrily chugging along, really jolly and happy, because he's God, and upon our own initiative, with God not having anything to do with it besides providing a party boat, we can choose to swim to the party boat or not. The "good people" (people who choose to swim to the boat) all get to spend forever on the Happy Party Boat.

God as the laissez-Faire Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, willy-nilly, but it is up to us to swim toward them and grab them--and to pull ourselves in.

God as the Very Busy Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, to every single person, directly, accurately, bonking us all on the head, because otherwise we can't see the life preservers, since we're too egotistical and wrapped up on worldliness. It is up to each of us to accept that life preserver and let God haul us in. While it might be nice if we swim toward the boat with the life preserver, the distance is so great that it wouldn't make any difference without God doing the hauling.

God as the Dip Netter: God has a dip net. We can't avoid the net. We also can't swim toward the net, because we are all anchored to the bottom, barely staying afloat until we lose our meager strength and sink forever. God just dips up who He wants and lets everyone else drown. Nothing we do matters, for we can do nothing.

I don’t see any options that include bearing fruit and having love for others. I would have to make my own option that God throws us a life preserver and we not only need only grab ahold of it and put it on but also help others take hold of their’s help them put it on as well.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 26, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process,

BNR32FAN said:
I don’t see any options that include bearing fruit and having love for others.

AFTER being saved, isn't that when the fruit (IF there is any ) will be seen? Hard to have fruit before that, right?

public hermit · Nov 26, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
COOL! Anytime, ask - I am trying more to give an explanation or to be clear...
THANKS!

God bless you!

BNR32FAN · Nov 26, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
AFTER being saved, isn't that when the fruit (IF there is any ) will be seen? Hard to have fruit before that, right?

We can do good before we are saved. Our fruit is only tainted in the eyes of God by our sin.

“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Bible Highlighter · Nov 26, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
We can do good before we are saved. Our fruit is only tainted in the eyes of God by our sin.

“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭NASB‬‬

I believe we have to have the fruit of the Spirit and not our own fruit.
This shows that GOD lives inside of us (Who is the source of our salvation).

Bible Highlighter · Nov 26, 2019

It is more like we are trapped in a pool of water deep underground where there is no light, and then GOD within a boat shines His light unto us that there is a life preserver in front of us. God gets the glory for pointing out the way of salvation. But we have a choice to make in accepting His plan of salvation. We have to grab the life preserver and then hold on to the life preserver as he rescues us (i.e. We have to choose to believe in the gospel - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Once we are in the boat, we have to continue with God's compass and directions to get out of the maze of water ways underneath the ground. We have to follow His direction that is very narrow and not our own wide gate path. We have to obey the gospel, by crucifying the affections and lusts, and then walk in newness of life (See Matthew 16:24-26, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:3-11, and 2 Thessalonians 1:8).

JLB777 · Dec 3, 2019

Halbhh said:
Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11because they rebelled against God’s commands
and despised the plans of the Most High.
12So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness,
and broke away their chains.

Yes. Amen.

jimmyjimmy · Dec 25, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
There is no guarantee that every person will respond to God's call. However, God has called all.

How has God called all? What method has He used?

redleghunter · Dec 25, 2019

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process, that I like to illustrate metaphorically.

In all cases, we begin as adrift in the sea, in imminent danger of drowning, nothing to cling to.

God as the Happy Party Boat Pilot: God is merrily chugging along, really jolly and happy, because he's God, and upon our own initiative, with God not having anything to do with it besides providing a party boat, we can choose to swim to the party boat or not. The "good people" (people who choose to swim to the boat) all get to spend forever on the Happy Party Boat.

God as the laissez-Faire Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, willy-nilly, but it is up to us to swim toward them and grab them--and to pull ourselves in.

God as the Very Busy Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, to every single person, directly, accurately, bonking us all on the head, because otherwise we can't see the life preservers, since we're too egotistical and wrapped up on worldliness. It is up to each of us to accept that life preserver and let God haul us in. While it might be nice if we swim toward the boat with the life preserver, the distance is so great that it wouldn't make any difference without God doing the hauling.

God as the Dip Netter: God has a dip net. We can't avoid the net. We also can't swim toward the net, because we are all anchored to the bottom, barely staying afloat until we lose our meager strength and sink forever. God just dips up who He wants and lets everyone else drown. Nothing we do matters, for we can do nothing.

One view is missing.

God the Savior of the Dead.

He deep dives finds us dead, body bloated no life in us. While we are still dead He makes us alive in Him.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 25, 2019

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
(Matthew 13:15).

The people's heart is waxed gross, their eyes they have closed "lest" (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR) they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears.

Lest (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR OF GOD) they "be converted" and God will heal them.

How are we to be converted?
By repenting.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted,..."
(Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

Repentance is not by some forced regeneration against a person's will because God commands all men everywhere to repent.

"...but now commands all men everywhere to repent,"
(Acts of the Apostles 17:30).

For it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6).

God so loved the world (not just the elect) (John 3:16).
The word "world" is in reference to the "world" and not the elect.
Unless one wants to change the plain meaning of the Bible, this word means what it says plainly.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him (not just the "elect") should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).

Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
The world. Not just the sins of the elect. God pays the price for sin for all of mankind (except those in Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8) so as to offer mankind the gift of salvation. But a person has to accept that gift. Gifts are not forced upon people. I know. I tried to give a gift to a person once, and they sent it back. So gifts have to be received by the other person. Gifts cannot be forced upon people. It may not be the kind of gift that they want. Most do not want the gift of salvation because it requires picking up your cross, and denying yourself to follow Jesus (i.e. living a holy life in glory to God).

BryanJohnMaloney · Jan 6, 2020

redleghunter said:
One view is missing.

God the Savior of the Dead.

He deep dives finds us dead, body bloated no life in us. While we are still dead He makes us alive in Him.

That is God as the dip netter. God chooses whom He wills, we all deserve damnation, it's all a crapshoot. Babies deserve to burn in Hell forever.

redleghunter · Jan 6, 2020

BryanJohnMaloney said:
That is God as the dip netter. God chooses whom He wills, we all deserve damnation, it's all a crapshoot. Babies deserve to burn in Hell forever.

Nope not even close. You keep adding on your sunk views.

BBAS 64 · Jan 9, 2020

BryanJohnMaloney said:
That is God as the dip netter. God chooses whom He wills, we all deserve damnation, it's all a crapshoot. Babies deserve to burn in Hell forever.

Good day

Choosing would be a cognitive act of the will and God has one:
- who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Born children of wrath, would of necessity merit damnation:
-among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind

We all deserve to burn in Hell, it is only by the function of Gods Grace, and mercy we do not. Our age has nothing to do with it so why you isolate babies is beyond me, do you not like them?

I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. There is God's will again.

In Him,

Bill

BBAS 64 · Jan 9, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
(Matthew 13:15).

The people's heart is waxed gross, their eyes they have closed "lest" (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR) they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears.

Lest (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR OF GOD) they "be converted" and God will heal them.

How are we to be converted?
By repenting.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted,..."
(Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

Repentance is not by some forced regeneration against a person's will because God commands all men everywhere to repent.

"...but now commands all men everywhere to repent,"
(Acts of the Apostles 17:30).

For it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6).

God so loved the world (not just the elect) (John 3:16).
The word "world" is in reference to the "world" and not the elect.
Unless one wants to change the plain meaning of the Bible, this word means what it says plainly.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him (not just the "elect") should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).

Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
The world. Not just the sins of the elect. God pays the price for sin for all of mankind (except those in Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8) so as to offer mankind the gift of salvation. But a person has to accept that gift. Gifts are not forced upon people. I know. I tried to give a gift to a person once, and they sent it back. So gifts have to be received by the other person. Gifts cannot be forced upon people. It may not be the kind of gift that they want. Most do not want the gift of salvation because it requires picking up your cross, and denying yourself to follow Jesus (i.e. living a holy life in glory to God).

Good Day, Bible highlighter

I must say you have a real strange view of regeneration....

But, maybe later we can cover that. Much like Belief and suffering Phil 1:29.

Repentance is Granted, no granting... no repenting, no knowledge, and left senseless.

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, table to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Now the repentance has 2 primary (purposes or direct effects by design of God) he is the primary cause (he Grants) and purposes the effects:

leading to the knowledge of Truth
bringing them to their (the ones granted) senses.

Ok Regeneration:

EZE 36 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

You can see here the are things that God does (causes), and there are purposes He has deigned to happen based on his actions( direct effects).

Hope that Helps,

In Him!

Bill

JLB777 · Jan 12, 2020

BBAS 64 said:
2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, table to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Now the repentance has 2 primary (purposes or direct effects by design of God) he is the primary cause (he Grants) and purposes the effects:

leading to the knowledge of Truth
bringing them to their (the ones granted) senses.

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:20-26

And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition,

Notice the steps to becoming a servant who is prepared for this work of teaching.

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Notice that the work of sanctification is predicated by us obeying this mandate to cleanse ourself.

IOW, God initiates the repentance and gives us grace, the ability and power to turn away from these defiling things, in which we are cleansing ourselves by His grace, by His Spirit, through our willingness to repent, and confess our sin, so that we are cleansed of all unrighteousness.

JLB

Three predominant views of the salvific process.

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

He’s a Way of life

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

social troglodyte

He’s a Way of life

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Pardoned Rebel

Thank You Jesus!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Contributor

Contributor

Newbie

Similar threads