HELL IS NOT A SECRET TO BE KEPT

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

1 John 4:17-18
This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Skidder · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
This is a misconception due to the situation with the Judaizing Circumcision Group. (see Acts 15) In actuality, the gentiles were never under the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. But the Circumcision claimed they needed to be under the law. See Galatians chapters three and five. "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? …" - Gal. 3:1

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

So tell me what "law" is Paul referring to in these letters to the gentiles?

Romans 7
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

And now the letter to Galatia....

Galations 3
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, "kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our "tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

BNR32FAN · Nov 25, 2019

Shrewd Manager said:
Is hell mentioned in the catalogue of God's very good creation in Genesis? No. Is it mentioned anywhere in the Torah? Uh-uh. The Tanakh? Nugatory. In the OT at all? Negative. And what about the Gospels and epistles? We found Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, Tartaroo, the darkness and the abussos sir, but no hell. And Revelation? Will the lake of fire do boss, we're running out of verses?

Mighty well-kept secret, can't find it anywhere in scripture!

Hey, what's the difference between Balaam's talking donkey and Hell? You can find the donkey in scripture.

You won’t find the Trinity in the OT either. Just because something isn’t mentioned in the OT doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. In the New Testament hell aka the lake of fire is mentioned several times.

Skidder · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
1 John 4:17-18
This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

First of all we know the bible does not contradict itself, so why do the verses you posted "appear" to say something different than the ones I posted? They do not, the bible never contradicts itself, the bible is HOLY and without flaw...

The law was given to the Jews but that doesn't mean His righteous law does not convict the conscience of everyone. The law is Holy, but we are carnal sold as slaves to sin. When our old man, who was governed by this law in his evil thoughts and desires, was crucified with Christ, we are no longer kept guard by this RIGHTEOUS TUTOR or SCHOOLMASTER. The law can chase us to Cavalry but no farther, but after faith has come we are no longer kept by this TUTOR or LAW. This is verified in other places as well. The law is still there for those who reject Christ until they come to the END OF THE LAW who is CHRIST. And please take note that it says CHRIST is the END OF THE LAW for EVERYONE (not just a certain group)

"when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members." But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, "kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our "tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the LAW is the knowledge of sin.

1 Timothy 1:9
knowing this: That the law is NOT made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Philippians 3:6
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 2:15
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness TO EVERYONE who believes.

timothyu · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Would you say that it is just for God to consign these groups of individuals to eternal conscious torment in hell with no hope of escape?

Jesus said to live in the way of the Kingdom. Not necessary to ever hear of it. All those before and after Jesus need only have put the needs of others before their own which would be fulfilling putting the will of God before our own and loving all as self. They unknowingly qualify for the Kingdom, and quite frankly perhaps more so than a practising Christian because they can't be accused of following an agenda of self preservation.

Skidder · Nov 25, 2019

timothyu said:
Jesus said to live in the way of the Kingdom. Not necessary to ever hear of it. All those before and after Jesus need only have put the needs of others before their own which would be fulfilling putting the will of God before our own and loving all as self. They unknowingly qualify for the Kingdom, and quite frankly perhaps more so than a practising Christian because they can't be accused of following an agenda of self preservation.

The wrath of God abides on anyone who chooses their sin over Christ.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

timothyu · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
The wrath of God abides on anyone who chooses their sin over Christ.

That's what I said, servitude over self.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
So tell me what "law" is Paul referring to in these letters to the gentiles?

Romans 7
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

That's a tricky one. In Romans chapter seven there are three or four different laws being discussed. And they all differ from one another.

However in the scripture you quoted it seems to be just the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. Which is weird because he is talking to gentiles. I think the "we" he is using is in reference to Jewish Christians.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
And now the letter to Galatia....

Galations 3
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, "kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our "tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Same thing here.
It is the law God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses. But he is discussing it from the Jewish Christian perspective.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
First of all we know the bible does not contradict itself...

Do we?

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
why do the verses you posted "appear" to say something different than the ones I posted? They do not, the bible never contradicts itself, the bible is HOLY and without flaw...

From your perspective, one of us is wrong and the other is right. But my verses say what they say and your verses say what they say. Whose verses should nullify the other person's verses? Should you cut my verses out of your Bible?

From my perspective they are both from the Bible, therefore both right. Live with it.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

timothyu said:
Jesus said to live in the way of the Kingdom. Not necessary to ever hear of it. All those before and after Jesus need only have put the needs of others before their own which would be fulfilling putting the will of God before our own and loving all as self. They unknowingly qualify for the Kingdom, and quite frankly perhaps more so than a practising Christian because they can't be accused of following an agenda of self preservation.

Well, that's a refreshing view. And there may be something to it.
I love this parenthetical statement in Romans chapter two.

Romans 2:14-15
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Skidder · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Do we?

"Do we?" I'm shocked that you would even say such a thing, and call yourself a Christian. Contradictions only happen in the carnal mind, not God's perfect word.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
"Do we?" I'm shocked that you would even say such a thing, and call yourself a Christian. Contradictions only happen in the carnal mind, not God's perfect word.

Sacred cow makes the best hamburger.
Too many Christians have turned the Bible into an idol.
Look at all the fighting going on here at a Christian forum.
So many different views and everyone tearing each other apart over a book.

Skidder · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Sacred cow makes the best hamburger.
Too many Christians have turned the Bible into an idol.
Look at all the fighting going on here at a Christian forum.
So many different views and everyone tearing each other apart over a book.

I already know that you have eliminated hell, but do you believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven?

FineLinen · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
I already know that you have eliminated hell, but do you believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven?

Dear Skid: It is not heaven that our thirsty souls seek. It is Him!

I am the way, the truth & the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me.

Saint Steven · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
I already know that you have eliminated hell, but do you believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven?

In a word, "Yes." Jesus is the only way to the Father.
But I believe the opportunity extends into the afterlife.
Much preferred to come to Christ in this lifetime however.
It will be "hell to pay" in the afterlife.

And no I have not eliminated "hell". I have redefined it; given it purpose.

Everything we believe about the final judgment has been reverse-engineered from the outcome, the Restoration of All Things. Granted, there are many holes in the information. We are putting it together as best we can. Difficult to do using the Bible, since it is a Damnationist biased text.

BNR32FAN · Nov 25, 2019

Skidder said:
"Do we?" I'm shocked that you would even say such a thing, and call yourself a Christian. Contradictions only happen in the carnal mind, not God's perfect word.

Yup same here two days ago when he said the same to me. Why even quote scriptures if you can’t trust them to be true? What basis for belief do we even have without the scriptures? Might as well just throw out the Bible all together and believe what we think is best.

BNR32FAN · Nov 25, 2019

Saint Steven said:
In a word, "Yes." Jesus is the only way to the Father.
But I believe the opportunity extends into the afterlife.
Much preferred to come to Christ in this lifetime however.
It will be "hell to pay" in the afterlife.

And no I have not eliminated "hell". I have redefined it; given it purpose.

Everything we believe about the final judgment has been reverse-engineered from the outcome, the Restoration of All Things. Granted, there are many holes in the information. We are putting it together as best we can. Difficult to do using the Bible, since it is a Damnationist biased text.

Amen the apostles were definitely damnationists. No argument there, I’m so glad we can agree on something. So you know something they didn’t?

FineLinen · Nov 25, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Amen the apostles were definitely damnationists. No argument there, I’m so glad we can agree on something. So you know something they didn’t?

"Damnation" =

No such word in koine or Hebrew!

Damnable, Damnation, And Damned - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words - Bible Dictionary

HELL IS NOT A SECRET TO BE KEPT

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