Does Jesus NOT know the day of his future second coming????

Strong in Him · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
not only is every letter important, but every stroke, Matthew 5:18

Taken out of context. Every letter of what?
The Bible is inspired, but I doubt that every word we have now was what was spoken/written at the time. It was not written in English; Jesus spoke Aramaic and the NT was written in Greek and translated into Latin, before the English version was made.

Just because a definite article may, or may not, be used, does not alter the nature of the Godhead.
ONE God; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 3 persons in one God. NOT one God and 2 "hands".

ewq1938 · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
the inspired text is "irrelevant" ??

Why would you deny the sacred text?

Jesus Christ is clearly distinguishing himself from God

That is anti-Trinitarianism. Jesus never distinguished himself from God because he said he was God.

Erik Nelson · Nov 25, 2019

Strong in Him said:
The Father is God, God is the Father.
God is also the Son and the Spirit.

which comes first, the Person of the God the Father...

or the triune godhead?

which is more primal, fundamental, original, basal, root-like?

Nicene creed;

yes, the Father is the God, transcendent

the Son is our Lord, throughout creation, all created heaven and earth

John 1:1-2.
1 John 1:1-3
The Spirit is also God

not in the same sense as the Father

please acknowledge, the Father begets the Son and generates the spirit, they derive from Him?

the Father is the root origin cause of everything, both in creation space and time heaven and earth, as well as even the fully Divine Godlike in essence Word & Spirit in the transcendent realm beyond creation

There is ONE God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

that describes the triune "Godhead"

not the God the Father, Who is one, unitary

ONE God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit - always has been, always will be.

they are united, existing in unity and eternal comm-union

but they are not identically the same exact thing

we are one with Jesus Christ and each other, too, but yet we aren't each other or Jesus Christ

No, God the Son and God the Spirit are separate persons; both divine and eternal.
They were not generated, or created, by the Father.

well, according to the Nicene creed they are, they are "of,from the Father"

Erik Nelson · Nov 25, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Why would you deny the sacred text?

That is anti-Trinitarianism. Jesus never distinguished himself from God because he said he was God.

not in John 20:17... Read it to me again in slow motion please?

ewq1938 · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
not in the same sense as the Father

Further anti-Trinitarianism. The Holy Spirit is God in the same exact sense that God the Father is God, and God the Son for that matter.

Erik Nelson · Nov 25, 2019

Strong in Him said:
Taken out of context. Every letter of what?
The Bible is inspired, but I doubt that every word we have now was what was spoken/written at the time. It was not written in English; Jesus spoke Aramaic and the NT was written in Greek and translated into Latin, before the English version was made.

Just because a definite article may, or may not, be used, does not alter the nature of the Godhead.
ONE God; God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 3 persons in one God. NOT one God and 2 "hands".

you are directly contradicting Saint Irenaeus' Against Heresies

you are essentially espousing modalism, picturing a triune God with three distinct aspects or modes of expression...

that inverts the Godhead, placing the same over and above the Father who generates it

where does any Scripture or creed claim that the Father is in anyway begotten or generated? The Father alone is unbegotten, uncaused... and begets His Word and breaths His Spirit

they proceed from Him, not the other way around

the root of Deity is the Father, unitary, not the Godhead

Erik Nelson · Nov 25, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Further anti-Trinitarianism. The Holy Spirit is God in the same exact sense that God the Father is God, and God the Son for that matter.

what do you think the Filioque controversy has been about for the past 1200 years since Charlemagne?

the whole point is that the Spirit proceeds from the Father... But not the other way around

Strong in Him · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
which comes first, the Person of the God the Father...

or the triune godhead?

There is ONE God - a triune Godhead; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
There are no other, or lesser, gods; that is a JW belief.

Erik Nelson said:
the Son is our Lord, throughout creation, all created heaven and earth

The Son is the One through whom the universe was created and came into being. The Word was with the Father in the beginning and all things were created through him, John 1:2-3, Colossians 1:15-16, Hebrews 1:2-3.

Erik Nelson said:
not in the same sense as the Father

So he is a lesser, or another, god - since you have acknowledged elsewhere that he is divine?
There is ONE God.

Erik Nelson said:
please acknowledge, the Father begets the Son and generates the spirit, they derive from Him?

The Father, the Son and the Spirit are God - all of them.
ONE God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Erik Nelson said:
the Father is the root origin cause of everything, both in creation space and time heaven and earth,

Yet Scripture states that all things were created through the Son; nothing exists, or could exist, without the Son.

Erik Nelson said:
not the God the Father, Who is one, unitary

There is one God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Spirit is God.
There is ONE God.

Just as my brother is a father, a husband and a brother, yet one man.
He does not have the same relationship with his children as he has with his wife.
He does not have the same relationship with his wife as he has with me, (no way am I sleeping with him.)
When we are all together, he does not stop being a father when he is talking to his wife, or stop being a husband when he is talking to me.

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
When the Son was on earth, teaching, healing and saving; he did not stop being God.
When the Spirit of truth is leading us to Jesus, making us God's children, giving us gifts and so on, he does not stop being God.

Erik Nelson said:
but they are not identically the same exact thing

They are GOD; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Erik Nelson said:
we are one with Jesus Christ and each other, too, but yet we aren't each other or Jesus Christ

We are created, individual, unique human beings - ALL made in the image of God to reflect his nature and glory.

The Son and Spirit were not created; they are eternal.

Erik Nelson said:
well, according to the Nicene creed they are, they are "of,from the Father"

Yes, and also God.
God the Father sent God the Son to die and redeem the world. After God the Son had been raised and ascended, he sent God the Spirit to live in us and guide us into all truth.

If Jesus was not God, then it was only a man who died on the cross, and he could not have saved us.
If Jesus was not God, he was a liar and a blasphemer, and not the spotless Lamb of God that Peter declared him to be, 1 Peter 1:19-20. Sinners cannot die for the sins of the world, so, if Jesus was not God, we have no Saviour.
If the Spirit is not God then he cannot know the mind of God, cannot intercede for us, and we do not have God himself living in us.

Strong in Him · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
you are directly contradicting Saint Irenaeus' Against Heresies

I haven't read it, so can't say whether I am or not.
But if I am; so what? I'm not contradicting Scripture.

Erik Nelson said:
you are essentially espousing modalism, picturing a triune God with three distinct aspects or modes of expression...

ONE God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; one in 3 and 3 in one is the Trinity.
Belief in the Trinity is a main Christian belief and certainly needed to be able to post in certain forums here at CF - look it up in the rules.

Erik Nelson said:
that inverts the Godhead, placing the same over and above the Father who generates it

There is ONE God - Jesus taught that and all Jews believe it..
You cannot place one part of the Godhead above another; they are ONE.

There is no "root" of the Godhead.
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - eternal, not created; always was, is and always will be.

Copperhead · Nov 25, 2019

DennisTate said:
Mat 24:36

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

Does this statement include even Jesus himself?????

Yeshua (Jesus) oft referred to the example of the Hebrew wedding. Go and study the details behind a 1st century Hebrew betrothal and marriage and you will have your answer.

DennisTate · Nov 25, 2019

Copperhead said:
Yeshua (Jesus) oft referred to the example of the Hebrew wedding. Go and study the details behind a 1st century Hebrew betrothal and marriage and you will have your answer.

You got it.... our pastor gave a sermon on this yesterday. It was amazing!

Yeshua HaDerekh · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
does that abrogate, or restate and reconfirm, John 1:18?

No one has seen The Father...show us The Father...have I been so long with you, and do you not know me...he that has seen me has seen The Father...how sayest thou, "Show us The Father"

timothyu · Nov 25, 2019

Strong in Him said:
The Bible is inspired, but I doubt that every word we have now was what was spoken/written at the time. It was not written in English; Jesus spoke Aramaic and the NT was written in Greek and translated into Latin, before the English version was made.

And I doubt they would have called Him Jesus Christ.

nolidad · Nov 25, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Where does it say that?? Acts 1:11 says differently...

1 Thess. 4:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We meet the Lord in the air we are caught up to meet the Lord- so the rapture is not His return or part 1` of His return--it is a totally seperate event. We are raptured to marry the Lord and return with Him when He does return to earth.

Rev. 19: 7-21 though Jesus fights alone cf. Isaiah 63: 1-6

nolidad · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
Yes, you are doing a very good job of delving straight back into the original 1st century inspired Greek!

Please observe, in the Greek OT & NT, the Father is always indicated by the phrase "ton Theon" (the God [Him, object-like case])

The other members of the Godhead are indicated by the word "Theos" (God [He, subject-like case])

Different words / phrases denote different things, yes?

"no man has ever seen the Father" (John 1:18), so whenever we do experience Him in action in creation, it is always through His "two hands" (His Word & His Spirit) which embody His activity in creation

The Father is not the Son, nor the Spirit, correct?

Jesus Christ was God the Father's Word incarnate, but not God the Father incarnate, correct?

John 3:16-18 = God the Father sent His Son... He didn't come directly Himself, correct?

Q.E.D. ?

John 3:18 makes it abundantly clear that the Son is the only-begotten (= a mysterious sort of generation in Transcendent Eternity beyond our creation space-and-time) of "the God" (ton Theon) -- look closely, the definite article "the" (G3588) is always present before "God" (G2316) whenever the Father (= "the [one] God") is indicated:

View attachment 267210

In this case it is not different words but a different spelling of the same word because of case, voice etc..

JOhn 20:28 also has the definite article hos with theos in Thomas' declaration that Jesus is the god of himself.

I Agree with most of your declarations but have no clue what you are trying to say with the colloquialism "two hands"

nolidad · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
God's Word incarnate

not The God The Father incarnate

John 1:18

The Father is not the Son

God the Son or Jehovah the Son!

The Father is not the Son who is not the Spirit etc. but they are all equally God or divine! all co-equal in essence and co eternal.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Nov 25, 2019

nolidad said:
1 Thess. 4:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We meet the Lord in the air we are caught up to meet the Lord- so the rapture is not His return or part 1` of His return--it is a totally seperate event. We are raptured to marry the Lord and return with Him when He does return to earth.

Rev. 19: 7-21 though Jesus fights alone cf. Isaiah 63: 1-6

There is no evidence there that that is not just the resurrection. So I assume you believe this is a pre-tribulation event? “The dead in Christ will rise first”. This is the “first resurrection” as described in the book of Revelation. However, Revelation tells us the first resurrection will take place after the tribulation when Messiah returns to setup His kingdom. Matthew 24:29-31 also says it is AFTER the tribulation.

DennisTate · Nov 25, 2019

timothyu said:
And I doubt they would have called Him Jesus Christ.

Yeshua ben Yosef is more likely close to how his disciples said his name.

timothyu · Nov 25, 2019

DennisTate said:
Yeshua ben Yosef is more likely close to how his disciples said his name.

True... and Jesus the Messiah would likely have been a better translation name had the Kingdom remained an integral part of Christianity and not just the King..

Der Alte · Nov 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
whoa
it would be...
but wasn't
you can't base doctrine on hypotheticals!
please. Acknowledge. Thomas. Does. Not. Address. Jesus Christ. With. The. Definite. Article
factually correct?
God did not inspire Thomas to use the nominative case there... Or anywhere else... In reference to Jesus Christ, the Word of God or the Spirit of God, correct?
where is Sola Scriptura when one might need it
only what is right there in the text, yes?

Nonsense! Factually incorrect. Prove it if you can! I call this the "Neener, neener, neener I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" argument. You quoted Biblehub, does Biblehub support what I said or not? I just checked it does. "O theos" is literally" "the God" as I said. That is NOT hypothetical!
Thomas said "o theo mou" which is the nominative case.
You might want to write this down, I almost never post anything I can't back up.

Does Jesus NOT know the day of his future second coming????

Does even Jesus NOT know exactly when he will return to the earth?

No... Jesus knows everything.

Yes... that is what Jesus clearly said!

What??????? That sounds really strange to me!

Great is thy faithfulness

I love you three.

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I love you three.

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Great is thy faithfulness

Great is thy faithfulness

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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