Futurist Only Where on the timeline?

Douggg

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Hi Douggg

Just a little detail there. God`s word says people are blessed if they reach 1335 days. Now I wouldn`t say that the rebellious are `blessed` but judged when the Lord comes, thus Jesus comes prior to that time.

`Blessed is he who waits and comes to the 1335 days.` (Dan. 12: 12)
I am pretty sure it is talking about Daniel's people the Jews in Daniel 12.
 
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Marilyn C

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I am pretty sure it is talking about Daniel's people the Jews in Daniel 12.

I agree. Then we look a bit further back and see -

`And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.` (Dan. 12: 11)

........I (A/D).........................(1,290days).....................temple cleansed.I..>

So we see that that is when the temple is cleansed. The Lord returns in power and great glory a month before that, as the A/C is only given rulership for 42 months, 1,260 days.

......I (A/D)............................(1,260 days).............end A/C.I...>
 
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Douggg

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I agree. Then we look a bit further back and see -

`And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.` (Dan. 12: 11)

........I (A/D).........................(1,290days).....................temple cleansed.I..>

So we see that that is when the temple is cleansed. The Lord returns in power and great glory a month before that, as the A/C is only given rulership for 42 months, 1,260 days.

......I (A/D)............................(1,260 days).............end A/C.I...>

tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29a) = from AoD setup 1290 days to sixth seal (Matthew 24:29b)

great tribulation = from Aod setup 1335 days to Jesus coming in great power and glory (Matthew 24:30b)

Temple cleansed of the things that will have made it desolate, on the day Jesus comes to remove the beast, the false prophet, the statue image, Satan.
 
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tranquil

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Please use one asterisks to place where on the 7 year timeline that you think that Satan will be cast down to have the time, times, half time left in Revelation 12, *.

(you can do a copy and paste of the un-annotated timeline below, in your post. But put the asterisks where you think is the right place)

Day 1_____________________________________________________Day 2520

My view...

Day 1___________________________*__________________________Day 2520

You have predicated this entire thread upon a misunderstanding of Daniel 9's 70 weeks.

If you are correct, tell me how there can be an abomination of desolation in the holy place when Daniel 9 tells us that 70 '7's have to go by before there even is a holy place.

In other words, the end of the 70 '7's has to occur before the abomination can even be placed. But you would have it that the abomination can arrive before the end of 70 '7's, before there is a holy place.

Matt 24
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.​

Dan 9
24“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
So what is the solution?

The word 'week' can mean 7 years. 70, 7 years = 77 years to anoint a holy place

Israel & Jerusalem established: 70 Hebrew calendar years, 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, half a week,

1st abomination (6th Seal) (1st gathering, not 'whisked away' rapture) (it really is no different than how you put it as 'the Jews don't accept the false messiah and flee')

1335 days + 9 months, then the holy place arrives: ta daa! = 7th Trumpet & 7 bowls of wrath when the 70 '7's arrives.

But since you are obsessed with '7 years', here is the entire formula:

70 Hebrew calendar years, 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, half a week,
1 solar year (this is the 'year of vengeance' of Isaiah 34:8 & Isaiah 61:2
+ 42 Bible months + then 42 months that are shortened

70 Hebrew calendar years, 70 weeks, 7 weeks, 62 weeks, half a week,
start of the 6th Seal starting the 'year of vengeance' where the first 6 Trumpets occur.
2 Witnesses start 7 years, 42 months/ False Prophet breaks covenant in the middle of '7 years'
Conveniently, the 2 Witnesses start on 24 Kislev/ Hanukah and then 1264 days later is 17 Iyyar - the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem's desolations is May 14, 2025, which is 17 Iyyar. That is how there can be the fulfillment of the holy place arriving and yet there is the covenant broken in the middle of 7 years.

the woman is in the wilderness for either a 'time, times, half time' (= 42 Bible months) or 1260 days.
Why give these 2 timeframes? because from the start of the 1st abomination (Dec 21, 2020 which is 6 Tevet, 5781, go forward 1 solar year of vengeance to Dec 21, 2021, which is 17 Tevet, 5782. Then go forward 42 Bible months to 17 Iyyar, 5785, aka dusk May 14, 2025, which is when the 'holy place arrives', the end of 70, 7 years.

In other words, the beginning 'year of vengeance' accounts for the extra days beyond 42 Bible months. 1335 days + 9 months (270 days) (Rev 12 'birth') = 1 solar year of wrath + 42 Bible months. The 2 witnesses start a few weeks earlier. 42 Bible months ~ 1240 days & the 2 witnesses have 1260 days + 3.5 days.
 
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Douggg

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If you are correct, tell me how there can be an abomination of desolation in the holy place when Daniel 9 tells us that 70 '7's have to go by before there even is a holy place.
What do you think the meaning of holy is?

holy - dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred.


Part of the problem is with the translation you are using steers you to a wrong conclusion(s). The KJV reads differently.

Daniel 9:24 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It doesn't say in Daniel 9, anoint "a holy place" in the KJV. But the most Holy. Jesus is the most Holy. Jesus will be returning to this earth and the Jews will be saying blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. It is talking about Jesus being accepted by the Jews as their King of Israel messiah.

In Matthew 24:15 it says standing in the holy place - i.e. a place dedicated to God - which the Jews will rebuild the temple with that intention.
 
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tranquil

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What do you think the meaning of holy is?

holy - dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred.


Part of the problem is with the translation you are using steers you to a wrong conclusion(s). The KJV reads differently.

Daniel 9:24 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

It doesn't say in Daniel 9, anoint "a holy place" in the KJV. But the most Holy. Jesus is the most Holy. Jesus will be returning to this earth and the Jews will be saying blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. It is talking about Jesus being accepted by the Jews as their King of Israel messiah.

In Matthew 24:15 it says standing in the holy place - i.e. a place dedicated to God - which the Jews will rebuild the temple with that intention.

We are not discussing whether Jesus is holy or not.

The abomination goes in the holy place. Does the abomination go in Jesus?

Daniel tells you it takes 70 '7's to get that holy place where the abomination goes.

Try again.
 
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tranquil

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Here's another thing to consider:
The 2 witnesses are building that 'holy place', the 'temple' (what form it is, seems to be Ezekiel's temple, but I'm open minded about it).

The 2 witnesses will start on 24 Kislev/ Hanukah. (Haggai 2:15-22), 1264 days later is 17 Iyyar, the start of the 'days of Noah' (Genesis 7) and the start of the 7th trumpet/ kingdom of heaven.

In the manner that you think of it, the 7 years covenant would thus begin with the 2 witnesses 1260 days, the 2 witnesses are building the temple/ holy place that is defiled. Seems pretty straightforward?

shrugs
 
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Marilyn C

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tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29a) = from AoD setup 1290 days to sixth seal (Matthew 24:29b)

great tribulation = from Aod setup 1335 days to Jesus coming in great power and glory (Matthew 24:30b)

Temple cleansed of the things that will have made it desolate, on the day Jesus comes to remove the beast, the false prophet, the statue image, Satan.

Hi Douggg,

The text tells us that the 1,290 days relates to the cleansing of the Temple and that is not when Jesus comes. He does quite a lot before the Temple is cleansed -

1. deals with the world`s armies & the A/C & false prophet & Satan and his demons,
2.reveals Himself to the people in Jerusalem,
3.judges the nations on how they treated Israel and
4.sends His angels to gather the Jews spread throughout the world.
5.Appoints a regent king over Israel and priests.

The Lord returns to His heavenly throne and rules through Israel. They cleanse the temple a month after the Lord revealed Himself to them. Israel has to do the work as they are learning to operate under the Lordship of Christ.

Marilyn.
 
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Douggg

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Hi Douggg,

The text tells us that the 1,290 days relates to the cleansing of the Temple and that is not when Jesus comes. He does quite a lot before the Temple is cleansed -

Hi Marilyn,

I don't know what the translation you are using says. But here is what the KJV say and there is nothing in the 1290 day verse about cleansing of the temple.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Differently, in the Daniel 8, regarding the transgression of desolation, it says at the end of the 2300 days the temple will be cleansed.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

The Lord returns to His heavenly throne and rules through Israel. They cleanse the temple a month after the Lord revealed Himself to them. Israel has to do the work as they are learning to operate under the Lordship of Christ.
Marilyn, I don't know where you are getting that highlighted in blue.
 
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Douggg

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We are not discussing whether Jesus is holy or not.

The abomination goes in the holy place. Does the abomination go in Jesus?

Daniel tells you it takes 70 '7's to get that holy place where the abomination goes.

Try again.
tranquil, I am saying to you, whatever translation you are using for completion of the 70 weeks says anoint a holy place, in Daniel 9. The KJV does not say a holy place

The KJV says the most Holy. Not a place. But indicates a person. Jesus.

Differently, in Matthew 24:15 it does say the abomination of desolation standing in a holy place. Of course that refers to the temple.

Daniel tells you it takes 70 '7's to get that holy place where the abomination goes.

Try again.

You try again. But this time with the KJV.
 
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Douggg

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In the manner that you think of it, the 7 years covenant would thus begin with the 2 witnesses 1260 days, the 2 witnesses are building the temple/ holy place that is defiled. Seems pretty straightforward?
No, it doesn't.

The 7 years begin with the confirmation of the covenant.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

I don't know what the translation you are using says. But here is what the KJV say and there is nothing in the 1290 day verse about cleansing of the temple.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Daniel-12-11/

Hi Douggg,

But note the sentence is in regards to the daily sacrifice taken away and the A/D set up. The 1,290 days is about the length of that A/D. Thus the A/D is taken away at the end of that time.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

The Lord returns to His heavenly throne and rules through Israel. They cleanse the temple a month after the Lord revealed Himself to them. Israel has to do the work as they are learning to operate under the Lordship of Christ.

Marilyn, I don't know where you are getting that highlighted in blue.

Hi Douggg,

The Lord rules through the regent King appointed, King David. He is a man who has sons, and is not the OT King David who is in the General Assembly awaiting his inheritance. (Jer. 30: 9, Ez. 37: 24, 46: 16)
 
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HardHead

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The KJV reads differently.

The KJV says the most Holy. Not a place. But indicates a person. Jesus.


Consider this from NET notes for Daniel 9:24 ...

N56 tn Heb “sevens.” Elsewhere the term is used of a literal week (a period of seven days), cf. Gen_29:27-28; Exo_34:22; Lev_12:5; Num_28:26; Deu_16:9-10; 2Ch_8:13; Jer_5:24; Dan_10:2-3. Gabriel unfolds the future as if it were a calendar of successive weeks. Most understand the reference here as periods of seventy “sevens” of years, or a total of 490 years.

N63 tn Or “the most holy place” (NASB, NLT); or “a most holy one”; or “the most holy one,” though the expression is used of places or objects elsewhere, not people.

Some translations including the Brenton Septuagint ...

Daniel 9:24

(ASV) Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

(Brenton) Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

(DRB) Seventy weeks are shortened upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, that transgression may be finished, and sin may have an end, and iniquity may be abolished; and everlasting justice may be brought; and vision and prophecy may be fulfilled; and the Saint of saints may be anointed.

(ESV) “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

(KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

(NASB77) "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place.

(NET) “Seventy weeks have been determined concerning your people and your holy city to put an end to rebellion, to bring sin to completion, to atone for iniquity, to bring in perpetual righteousness, to seal up the prophetic vision, and to anoint a most holy place.

(NIV) "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

(NKJV) "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

(NRSV) "Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

(RSV) "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

(RV) Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
 
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