Suicide Rise Among White Middle Age Males

Beloved2018

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So your virtues get people to come to church? Your virtues get impoverished parishes the resources they need? Your virtues travel to unreached/inactive places and spread the gospel there? I'm just a bit confused because you seem to be answering in terms of how you act towards others in society, which is a good thing of course but doesn't really tell us anything about the faith itself. If I'm really nice to people, they don't say "Wow, he's so nice, we should go to his church." The whole 'they will know we are Christians by our love' idea works only in societies where there is a very thick line between Christians and the rest of society, which usually isn't the case in the West because they're Christian-majority societies without very many practitioners, that have been (or are being) very successfully secularized such that no one would think of anyone else's loving behavior as a manifestation of Christ, even if that's exactly what it is and is intended to be to the person who is expressing love.
In Catholicism, the belief in the Communion of Saints is such that yes, my "virtues travel to unreached/inactive places and spread the gospel there". Because we believe our virtues are united to those of Christ's, they have Christ's universality. Our virtues are our participation in the Divine Nature, united to the One person of Jesus Christ, present at all times and in all places.
 
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thecolorsblend

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These things did not sprout forth from the mouth of some pagan Zeus. The Church created every good thing! Economy, Law, Marriage, Infrastructure, Education, Science, Art, Music, ect. If the Church dies in the West, God knows what will fill up the vacuum....
Um, no. Art, music, marriage, law and economy all predate the Church.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So what was it about the cursory glance inside the Anglican church that deterred you?

Life, reality, truth and hope? I agree attending church is not a panacea, and it doesn't cater for one's material needs - food, shelter, etc - but I am not sure what you mean. I think Christianity offers truth and hope.



Yes, people are being isolated. In what way is church being 'inundated with secularism'? I agree that some are capitulating to political pressures - that's been the case for many years and there are lots of examples - female clergy, etc.
There are churches that are dead. That is, the Holy spirit is not there as their beliefs are mainly just religion. One might have to experience this to know the difference.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Capitalism did not kill these men. These men are dying because their Society is dying. Their Society is dying because the Church in the West is vanishing.
The church in the west has surrendered its position of being salt and light while they waited for a rapture to take them out.
 
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dzheremi

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In Catholicism, the belief in the Communion of Saints is such that yes, my "virtues travel to unreached/inactive places and spread the gospel there". Because we believe our virtues are united to those of Christ's, they have Christ's universality. Our virtues are our participation in the Divine Nature, united to the One person of Jesus Christ, present at all times and in all places.

Is this some sort of weird application of (I think) Francis of Asisi's idea "Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words"?
 
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JATYSA

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I think the Occidental world in general my ip birthday wishes tneb is in decline. Globalisation has meant that most manufacturing jobs have been outsourced, whilst the internet is killing the retail sector. I also agree that youth culture is vapid and degenerate, too.
 
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A Gerbil

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I think the Occidental world in general is in decline. Globalisation has meant that most manufacturing jobs have been outsourced, whilst the internet is killing the retail sector. I also agree that youth culture is vapid and degenerate, too.

I totally agree! So much so I could have written that myself!
 
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tulc

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You consider Wikipedia credible?
Actually, yes. I know the tendency is to dismiss it as not but they are a lot more rigorous in their vetting of facts and information then pretty much any where else is. :wave:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out) :)
 
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Wolseley

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It is generally credible, yes. Here are the specific sources for my claim about slavery:

1. Kevin Bales (2004). New Slavery: A Reference Handbook. ABC-CLIO. p. 4. ISBN 978-1-85109-815-6. Retrieved February 11, 2016.

2. White, Shelley K.; Jonathan M. White; Kathleen Odell Korgen (2014). Sociologists in Action on Inequalities: Race, Class, Gender, and Sexuality. Sage. p. 43. ISBN 978-1-4833-1147-0.

Now, to be fair, you have every right to expect me to find the specific material in these references that supports my claim. Just as you have the responsibility to find the actual material in that book of yours.

Yes, slavery is outlawed in nearly every country in the world. And despite what Wikipedia may say, slavery is thriving. It's probably worse today inside the United States than it was in 1860. We are one of the countries topping the list for abductions, kidnapping, human trafficking, and sex slavery, in the world. Every day you see alerts about young women or girls who are missing---dozens of them. Where do you think they're going?

Here's some articles outlining the problem. Slavery comes in a lot of different forms, and these days, it has very little to do with picking cotton on a plantation in Georgia. There are, according to some estimates, between 180,000 and 300,000 children below the age of 18 being held prisoner in unknown locations, and being forced to provide sexual entertainment and favors for people with a lot of money. (Look at Jeffrey Epstein's so-called "ranch".) And that's just in the United States. Sources are included in the body of the first article, and in the footnotes of the second. Enlightenment is always a good thing.

20 staggering facts about human trafficking in the US

11 Facts About Human Trafficking
 
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Paidiske

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Is this some sort of weird application of (I think) Francis of Asisi's idea "Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words"?

Since the member has said he's taking a break from CF, I might hazard an answer and say that no, the member has offered you a particularly Catholic mystical take on things. I'm familiar enough with it to recognise it as such, but not really to do justice to trying to explain it to you!

More on topic, I would point to two things; (and bearing in mind that I'm not in America, have no direct experience of America, and am speaking from an Australian context); one is the desperate need for improvement of mental health services. Earlier diagnosis of mental health issues (including depression), better access to treatment, and more integrated support would be enormously helpful.

The other is that some of the ways we now consume information, much more than in the past, contribute to a sense of helplessness/being overwhelmed. When all day, every day, every channel of social media (as well as traditional media) either brings you bad news stories, or images of a life to which you cannot reasonably hope to aspire, it is easy to start to lose a sense of agency, purpose and even worth. Rather than being able to face the day with some sense of confidence, there's a constant sense of self-diminishment. (I'm not sure if I've expressed that well, but I hope you understand what I mean). And I think we have not really found the measure of what that is doing to people's mental health, yet.
 
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Wolseley

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About slavery: I intend to defend my assertion that slavery, whether legal or not, has undergone a dramatic decline worldwide.

Help yourself. As I said: slavery is thriving. It's not institutional and right out there in the open for everybody to see, it's secretive, swept under the rug, hidden from view....but that doesn't mean that it's not out there. But if you can prove that slavery is just a cipher in this day and age, nobody will be happier than I. Good luck.
 
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Al Gammate

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If there is a dramatic increase in the suicide rate of the white male middle-aged working class, this can be due to the current culture. The current culture in the United States is hard-left, Marxist, modern liberal propaganda. This propaganda emanates from the public schools, state colleges, and television which has been taken over by modern liberals.

The propaganda being pushed is that ALL straight white men are 100% responsible for all the pain, misery, and inconveniences experienced by minorities, women, homosexuals, and pedophiles. And that ALL straight white men need to be destroyed and rendered extinct.

This is clearly a very evil and hate-filled movement perhaps created by the Devil himself. We Christians need to be aware of this movement and vigorously oppose it. We must keep in mind that the real target of modern liberals is the Christians. Christianity stands for everything that modern liberals most hate.

Sincerely,
Al A. Gammate
 
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Paidiske

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The propaganda being pushed is that ALL straight white men are 100% responsible for all the pain, misery, and inconveniences experienced by minorities, women, homosexuals, and pedophiles. And that ALL straight white men need to be destroyed and rendered extinct.

Even if you see different social discourses as "propaganda," this is a total misrepresentation. Being able to be critical of cultural hegemony, patriarchy, and so on (why on earth are pedophiles thrown in with minorities and women there?) does not mean thinking that all people of the dominant culture, or all men, are responsible for the problems; it does not mean that there are not other problems not caused by those dynamics, and it certainly does not mean wanting to destroy or render extinct straight white men.

This kind of misrepresentation does nothing to help address the issue that's been raised in this thread, because it refuses to deal with the complexity of reality.
 
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expos4ever

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Help yourself. As I said: slavery is thriving. It's not institutional and right out there in the open for everybody to see, it's secretive, swept under the rug, hidden from view....but that doesn't mean that it's not out there. But if you can prove that slavery is just a cipher in this day and age, nobody will be happier than I. Good luck.
First, do you have any actual data to support your contention? Remember, what matters are not absolute numbers but relative numbers instead. If 1,000,000 people satisfy some criteria for being slaves today, one has to remember that this is only 1 out of 7,000 people. In 1500, when the world's population was only 500 million it would require only 75,000 slaves to be just as bad.

In defence of the claim that slavery is decreasing, note that:

1. Slavery is no longer legal anywhere in the world - in not-so-distant past it was legal in many countries. This does not, of course, prove that slavery as a practice is decreasing; however, I suggest it is highly suggestive: if all human societies elect to make slavery illegal, this almost certainly must reflect a general trend of non-acceptance of slavery as a practice.

2. The media wildly distorts our perceptions; in focusing on bad news, media reports give people a highly inaccurate perception of reality. Thus, many people believe crime is increasing when, in fact, it is going down rather significantly.

To be fair, I found it difficult to find evidence on either side of this issue. But we should agree one thing, I hope: our claims need to be defended - it is not enough to provide "impressions" or appeal to anecdotes. No, numbers (and in fact relative numbers) are what counts.
 
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expos4ever

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The propaganda being pushed is that ALL straight white men are 100% responsible for all the pain, misery, and inconveniences experienced by minorities, women, homosexuals, and pedophiles. And that ALL straight white men need to be destroyed and rendered extinct.
A ridiculous claim, of course.
 
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KeeperOfMemories

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I've seen so many articles about this subject. It makes me so mad. There's a huge problem, and there's really not much of a will to do much. I don't know how much mental health will help--maybe a little bit. But there's a huge void left in our modern society.

People used to have a pathway which gave them meaning. They had got married, joined a church, contributed to the community. People seem to be shunning these relationships. There's a huge void. There's no place for meaning in peoples' lives.

Churches these days don't do much for it. They offer a lot of entertainment, but they don't offer any authentic community. They feel so inauthentic. It feels like they're reading off a script when they're talking to you. It's hard to find any sort of authentic communication between people.

People feel alone. They can't talk about their pain. Their hopes. Their dreams. We're isolated, seeing all the opportunities disappear. Seeing the world grow more and more divided by the day. Seeing all the anger lingering around. It really creates a horrific air of hopelessness.

It makes me mad. I don't want to write this off as a tragedy we can do nothing about. I see it as a problem that needs serious addressing.
 
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Rescued One

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The propaganda being pushed is that ALL straight white men are 100% responsible for all the pain, misery, and inconveniences experienced by minorities, women, homosexuals, and pedophiles. And that ALL straight white men need to be destroyed and rendered extinct.

I don't agree. A segment of white liberal men should stop hating men who are conservatives. Some liberals aren't as educated as they think they are. They assume that if you are pro-life, believe most police are good men, then you hate minorities and immigrants. Most Americans have immigrant ancestors.

Most public schools are very liberal brainwashers.

Are the men committing suicide because of mental illness or marriages where the wife is verbally abusive towards them? Kindness and loving support could prevent a lot of suicides.
 
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