Suicide Rise Among White Middle Age Males

thecolorsblend

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Capitalism did not kill these men. These men are dying because their Society is dying. Their Society is dying because the Church in the West is vanishing.
I would think that a stable economy, career opportunities and marriage prospects are symptoms of a healthy society. The lack of those things tends to suggest an unhealthy society.

Thank you for agreeing with me.
 
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Beloved2018

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These things did not sprout forth from the mouth of some pagan Zeus. The Church created every good thing! Economy, Law, Marriage, Infrastructure, Education, Science, Art, Music, ect. If the Church dies in the West, God knows what will fill up the vacuum....
I would think that a stable economy, career opportunities and marriage prospects are symptoms of a healthy society. The lack of those things tends to suggest an unhealthy society.

Thank you for agreeing with me.
 
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Beloved2018

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So you do want a list of my virtues? This feels weird. I have to be honest.
Throughout my life I have prayed. I have contributed to charity, most especially my time. I have taken care of my family, especially my elders. I have forsaken marriage. I have dedicated my life to patriarchal advancements. I have studied extensively. I have contribute my time to various individual causes. But most of all, I love. I love Jesus and the men around me.
I think that's enough for now.
Yes, that's why I'm asking about what you are going to do about "the Church almost disappearing".
 
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dqhall

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*caution: may not be appropriate for children
I recently read Latina women with degrees earn 70 percent less than White men with similar degrees. They are not doing mass suicide.

Some Haitians in Haiti earn less than $10 a day. They may survive on rice and beans in shanty towns. The median income after taxes in a major Chinese city is about $10,000 a year. They ought to be austere; not do Caribbean cruises or Disney World tours.

It is difficult when people depend on your strength and strong back, then you lose that in middle age. One estimate indicated 16% of suicide is over debts.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death. 56% of men who killed themselves used a firearm to commit suicide. I sold my gun years ago as Jesus taught, “Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.” I am safer without a weapon.

If people knew Jesus they might find reasons for living. If they gambled on sin, they were likely to lose. If you can not find a job in one location, look for another location where they are hiring.
 
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expos4ever

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What kind of graph would you like? This subject is vast.
Any evidence at all of any "moral" decline in society. But, of course, it has to be non-anecdotal and otherwise credible.

Let me illustrate what I mean. Here is some evidence that the moral climate is actually improving. From wikipedia:

Slavery was legal in most societies at some time in the past, but is now outlawed in all recognized countries.
 
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expos4ever

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The Church created every good thing! Economy, Law, Marriage, Infrastructure, Education, Science, Art, Music, ect.
I am not trying to be difficult but I am exceedingly skeptical you can support this claim. I am not suggesting it is not true; however, I think that one cannot disentangle all the factors involved such that you can credit the church (substantially) for all these good things.
 
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dzheremi

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So you do want a list of my virtues?

What? No. Why do you keep saying this?

This feels weird. I have to be honest.

Because you're making it weird. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Throughout my life I have prayed. I have contributed to charity, most especially my time. I have taken care of my family, especially my elders. I have forsaken marriage. I have dedicated my life to patriarchal advancements. I have studied extensively. I have contribute my time to various individual causes. But most of all, I love. I love Jesus and the men around me.
I think that's enough for now.

What does all of this do about the church supposedly disappearing? These are all good things, but I'm not seeing the direct connection.
 
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Beloved2018

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What? No. Why do you keep saying this?
Because this is a Spiritual battle. We're only going to reclaim our Society, when we reclaim the Christian ( read: virtuous) life.

Because you're making it weird. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What does all of this do about the church supposedly disappearing? These are all good things, but I'm not seeing the direct connection.
I think you're really missing my point. You asked me what am I doing about the Church disappearing. We each are called to live the Christian life according to our capacity. That is how we each build up the Church. Each according our gifts; our virtues. Can you see how someone might be a little modest or embarrassed to list their own? I'm not calling for a physical revolution. The Church will only reappear when Faith reappears.
 
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Beloved2018

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That comment was addressed to a fellow Catholic ( who I assume knows Church history). He was trying to blame Capitalism. I don't intend to write a defense of the Church and the West on CFs. If you're interested, you can start with How Christianity Saved Civilization by Mike Aquilina.
I am not trying to be difficult but I am exceedingly skeptical you can support this claim. I am not suggesting it is not true; however, I think that one cannot disentangle all the factors involved such that you can credit the church (substantially) for all these good things.
 
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Beloved2018

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You consider Wikipedia credible?
Any evidence at all of any "moral" decline in society. But, of course, it has to be non-anecdotal and otherwise credible.

Let me illustrate what I mean. Here is some evidence that the moral climate is actually improving. From wikipedia:

Slavery was legal in most societies at some time in the past, but is now outlawed in all recognized countries.
 
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expos4ever

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I don't intend to write a defense of the Church and the West on CFs. If you're interested, you can start with How Christianity Saved Civilization by Mike Aquilina.
It was you who made certain claims about the contributions of the church. It is your responsibility to defend those claims with actual evidence. The book you cited may well support your claim. But a reasonable reader would want more than your say-so that this book supports your claims. And it is, as always, the responsibility of the claimant to support their claim.
 
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expos4ever

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You consider Wikipedia credible?
It is generally credible, yes. Here are the specific sources for my claim about slavery:

1. Kevin Bales (2004). New Slavery: A Reference Handbook. ABC-CLIO. p. 4. ISBN 978-1-85109-815-6. Retrieved February 11, 2016.

2. White, Shelley K.; Jonathan M. White; Kathleen Odell Korgen (2014). Sociologists in Action on Inequalities: Race, Class, Gender, and Sexuality. Sage. p. 43. ISBN 978-1-4833-1147-0.

Now, to be fair, you have every right to expect me to find the specific material in these references that supports my claim. Just as you have the responsibility to find the actual material in that book of yours.
 
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Beloved2018

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It wasn't addressed to you dear. I'm not going to write you a book. He and I both being Catholics have a starting point. You and I don't.
It was you who made certain claims about the contributions of the church. It is your responsibility to defend those claims with actual evidence. The book you cited may well support your claim. But a reasonable reader would want more than your say-so that this book supports your claims. And it is, as always, the responsibility of the claimant to support their claim.
 
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dzheremi

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Because this is a Spiritual battle. We're only going to reclaim our Society, when we reclaim the Christian ( read: virtuous) life.

Okay.

I think you're really missing my point.

Clearly.

You asked me what am I doing about the Church disappearing. We each are called to live the Christian life according to our capacity. That is how we each build up the Church. Each according our gifts; our virtues.

So your virtues get people to come to church? Your virtues get impoverished parishes the resources they need? Your virtues travel to unreached/inactive places and spread the gospel there? I'm just a bit confused because you seem to be answering in terms of how you act towards others in society, which is a good thing of course but doesn't really tell us anything about the faith itself. If I'm really nice to people, they don't say "Wow, he's so nice, we should go to his church." The whole 'they will know we are Christians by our love' idea works only in societies where there is a very thick line between Christians and the rest of society, which usually isn't the case in the West because they're Christian-majority societies without very many practitioners, that have been (or are being) very successfully secularized such that no one would think of anyone else's loving behavior as a manifestation of Christ, even if that's exactly what it is and is intended to be to the person who is expressing love.

Can you see how someone might be a little modest or embarrassed to list their own?

I can see why they would be, yes, and it's a good impulse, but I didn't see where I was asking you about your personal virtues until you explained how you understand the question, which is not quite what I had in mind anyway. But okay.

I'm not calling for a physical revolution. The Church will only reappear when Faith reappears.

Yes, of course. That's the point of my question. You know what the goal is, as I suspect everyone does (to bring the faith back in the West), but then the question becomes how do you actually do that.
 
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expos4ever

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It wasn't addressed to you dear. I'm not going to write you a book. He and I both being Catholics have a starting point. You and I don't.
You can do whatever you like. But let's be clear about one thing: a neutral, objective reader will be rightfully suspicious of your not providing actual evidence to support your claims. It is not unreasonable for someone like me to point this out.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Depressing stuff! I agree with a lot of what he says - the boomer generation does seem to be blamed for all of society's woes, both historical and contemporary.

I think the Occidental world in general is in decline. Globalisation has meant that most manufacturing jobs have been outsourced, whilst the internet is killing the retail sector. I also agree that youth culture is vapid and degenerate, too.

However people have the ability to turn off their televisions and phones and pick up a book. They can find a local church which will nourish their spirit. Whilst degeneracy increasingly pervades through popular culture, people have agency and are free to turn away from this rubbish.
The decline of Chriatianity predates the boomers. If anything, it's their parents that abandoned Biblical Christianity and passed onto their kids a mix of state worship and secularism. The boomers passed that, along with their continuation of their grandparents sexual revolution, onto their kids. Those kids are now middle aged and have no purpose in life and no access to the hope that the church should be offering them. To blame boomers though is ridiculous, the nation abandoned biblical Christianity nearly a century before they were born and the final death blows were dealt in the 1920's before they were even born. Boomers and those that follow are the products of an explicit post-christian society.
 
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Beloved2018

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It is generally credible, yes. Here are the specific sources for my claim about slavery:

1. Kevin Bales (2004). New Slavery: A Reference Handbook. ABC-CLIO. p. 4. ISBN 978-1-85109-815-6. Retrieved February 11, 2016.

2. White, Shelley K.; Jonathan M. White; Kathleen Odell Korgen (2014). Sociologists in Action on Inequalities: Race, Class, Gender, and Sexuality. Sage. p. 43. ISBN 978-1-4833-1147-0.

Now, to be fair, you have every right to expect me to find the specific material in these references that supports my claim. Just as you have the responsibility to find the actual material in that book of yours.
LoL. That book I suggested was something to get you started. My knowledge of Church history is based on thousands of dollars of investment and yrs of research. In addition to discussing and listening to knowledgeable people. I cannot be your professor of 2000 yrs of how Catholicism/Christianity preserved and shaped Art, Science, Infrastructure, and whatever else I mentioned to a fellow Catholic ( who should already know this stuff). It's taken a lifetime to know what I know. I'm 39 yrs old and have been studying since 14. You're either not being fair or you don't know what you're asking for.
Now, I'm happy to get whatever graphs or statistics I can find that relate to the actual video. If you would tell me what particular part interest you. I'll see what I can do.
 
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Beloved2018

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Well, hopeful most people will watch the actual video and pray or be urged to some other Christian action. It's sad that these men are dying and we're arguing.
You can do whatever you like. But let's be clear about one thing: a neutral, objective reader will be rightfully suspicious of your not providing actual evidence to support your claims. It is not unreasonable for someone like me to point this out.
 
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