THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

keras · Nov 20, 2019

nolidad said:
For someone who on their avatar says they are writers of bible prophecy studies- you do not even know how biblical terms about Israel are used! So what tribe are you from and how do you know?

Even if Paul does confuse the issue by calling the Jews; Israel, he doesn't mean they are all of Israel as they comprise of just the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
The other ten tribes are the actual House of Israel and they remain scattered around the world today. The are the Christian peoples. if you deny this truth, then you deny that Jesus succeeded in His Mission. Matthew 15:24

We will be assigned to a tribe according to our family characteristics and the 144,000 missionaries will be selected by Jesus out of those twelve tribes. All as described in Revelation 7:1-9 and Revelation 14:1-7

You determination to have the Jewish State of Israel as still God's chosen despite their obvious misbehavior, nolidad, shows how sadly confused and locked into false teachings you are. Isn't that idea somewhat hard to believe?

jgr · Nov 21, 2019

nolidad said:
Well I have read all your fancy opinions and aqnd reinterpretations and allegorical thought, but tell me, why should I accept your writing as to the meaning of these verses as the literal meaning of what God was trying to say- instead of just accepting what God said without all the tap dancing you had to do????? Or what makes your reinterpretation more authoritative than other allegorists who differ, the RC Church, Mormons or Jws?

So once again I ask, why are your "spiritual interpretations" (though you have butchered that word in REv. 1) MORE AUTHORITATIVE than the RC church, other "spiritual interpreters", the mormons, or the Jw's!

I freely acknowledge that Revelation is full of symbols. But I do not need to make lengthy gymnastic explanations to define them. I let the Bible define the symbols (which it so clearly does) all the while using the golden rule of interpretation: "If the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, then seek no other sense!"

Let us look at your verse 20 example! No one needs to pray or seek wisdom to understand what the stars or the candlesticks mean- God tells us right there!

Just because on esees things while in the spirit, doesn't make everything he sees some symbolic event! But you seem to forget that every symbolic thing has a literal event on earth!

So you think that glorification of Christ, and recognition of and praise for His redemptive plan and purpose, offered to all peoples, through all ages, triumphing over Satan, and fulfilled in the host of the redeemed of all time, the multitude of the faithful, delivered from bondage, sealed in Him, and singing a new song;

is but “fancy opinions” and “reinterpretations” and “allegorical thought” and “tap dancing”?

Contenders Edge · Nov 21, 2019

ebedmelech said:
Psalm 24.

And as a consequence of Adam's disobedience, God, in the universe that He created and belongs to Him, has permitted Satan a degree of power, that he otherwise would not have. In this present age, the evil carried out by Satan is under restraint. When the Church is taken out of the way, his evil will be far less restrained than it is now. His wicked reign will only come to an end when Christ returns.

But for now, how is the power of the wicked one best decreased? By the preaching of the Gospel, faithful service to our Lord, and constant fellowship with Him. The more prevalent the fear of the Lord is, the less power Satan has.

nolidad · Nov 21, 2019

keras said:
Even if Paul does confuse the issue by calling the Jews; Israel, he doesn't mean they are all of Israel as they comprise of just the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
The other ten tribes are the actual House of Israel and they remain scattered around the world today. The are the Christian peoples. if you deny this truth, then you deny that Jesus succeeded in His Mission. Matthew 15:24

We will be assigned to a tribe according to our family characteristics and the 144,000 missionaries will be selected by Jesus out of those twelve tribes. All as described in Revelation 7:1-9 and Revelation 14:1-7

You determination to have the Jewish State of Israel as still God's chosen despite their obvious misbehavior, nolidad, shows how sadly confused and locked into false teachings you are. Isn't that idea somewhat hard to believe?

So you are implying that Paul strayed from inspiration when He called Jews Israel (though Jews are Israelis) and was uninspired when He said that and you are now under inspiration of the Holy Spirit correcting the bible for us! OK got it!

keras said:
We will be assigned to a tribe according to our family characteristics and the 144,000 missionaries will be selected by Jesus out of those twelve tribes. All as described in Revelation 7:1-9 and Revelation 14:1-7

Well as there is not even a hint of this "new revelation" by you in th eBible why is your "new revelation" more authoritative than othersw "new revelations"?

keras said:
You determination to have the Jewish State of Israel as still God's chosen despite their obvious misbehavior, nolidad, shows how sadly confused and locked into false teachings you are. Isn't that idea somewhat hard to believe?

Well as you have seemingly twisted words I have written I can understand why you would write such a foolish statement!

But as I have direct SCriptures without "new revelations" to back me up, I stand in stronger stead than you!

Romans 11:25-28 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes

And to reiterate for the umppteenth time: No Jews do not get saved just simply because they are Jews!

But that Iswrael was to be brought back to their hom,eland in unbelief

Isaiah 11:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 11:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth

Micah 2:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

13 The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the Lord on the head of them.

Zephaniah 3:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.

Ezekiel 38 King James Version (KJV)
38 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Zechariah 13:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

I do not rely on "new revelations". God said it, I don't need the reinterpretation of men to understand God would bring His Jer. 31 covenant people of Israel and Judah (which He said ini Ezekiel He makes one again ) back to their land to purge and cleanse them!

nolidad · Nov 21, 2019

jgr said:
So you think that glorification of Christ, and recognition of and praise for His redemptive plan and purpose, offered to all peoples, through all ages, triumphing over Satan, and fulfilled in the host of the redeemed of all time, the multitude of the faithful, delivered from bondage, sealed in Him, and singing a new song;

is but “fancy opinions” and “reinterpretations” and “allegorical thought” and “tap dancing”?

No, that is your false and slanderous assumption by trying to twist my words.

ebedmelech · Nov 21, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
And as a consequence of Adam's disobedience, God, in the universe that He created and belongs to Him, has permitted Satan a degree of power, that he otherwise would not have. In this present age, the evil carried out by Satan is under restraint. When the Church is taken out of the way, his evil will be far less restrained than it is now. His wicked reign will only come to an end when Christ returns.

But for now, how is the power of the wicked one best decreased? By the preaching of the Gospel, faithful service to our Lord, and constant fellowship with Him. The more prevalent the fear of the Lord is, the less power Satan has.

Here how I see it. As I read the scriptures OT and NT, When God decrees something, it happens and no one can stop Him. He Is the Omnipotent One, not Satan.

When Jesus calls Satan "the prince of this world" it has nothing to do with Satan's authority. It has to do with the fact that as Jesus called him "the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy".

Jesus defeated Satan at the cross...its clearly stated in scripture. Therefore I will never admit Satan as anything but what he is..a liar and the father of lies.

jgr · Nov 21, 2019

nolidad said:
No

I'm glad you agree with me.

keras · Nov 21, 2019

nolidad said:
So you are implying that Paul strayed from inspiration when He called Jews Israel (though Jews are Israelis) and was uninspired when He said that and you are now under inspiration of the Holy Spirit correcting the bible for us! OK got it!

Paul correctly calls the Jews; Israelites.
However, where people like you get confused, is they are not all of Israel. As a Bible reader, you should know how Israel split into two Houses in King Rehoboam's time.
They have not rejoined as yet; Ezekiel 37 obviously remains to be fulfilled.

I do not claim any 'new revelations', just a proper understanding of what is Written.
If you think that Jesus came to save the lost House of Israel, Matthew 15:24, thinking they are only the Jews, then you have to say; Jesus failed in His mission.
But the truth is, true Israel are every faithful Christian person and as Paul tells us: of the Israelite Jews, only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Contenders Edge · Nov 21, 2019

claninja said:
What is the opposite of not worshiping in a temple? Answer: worshiping in a temple

A red herring and semantics; the re-establishment of a Temple would not change how we worship God any more than it did after the New Covenant was established, which was before the Temple was destroyed.

claninja said:
I apologize, I put the incorrect dates in. While the Jewish roman war did begin in April of 66ad (Wars of the Jews 2.14.4), that is not when the trampling began. However, April, May, June July, August = 5 months.

That is still one month short of 42.

claninja said:
1.) Cestius Gallus headed Roman armies and sieged Jerusalem. But for some reason he did not finish the siege and retreated with his armies (Wars of the Jews 2.19.6-7). This occurred around Marhesvan], in the twelfth year of the reign of Nero. (Wars of the Jews 2.19.9).

This is when many Jews fled from the city, or as Josephus put it " After this calamity had befallen Cestius, many of the most eminent of the Jews swam away from the city, as from a ship when it was going to sink". (wars of the Jews 2.20.1)

This fits very well with Jesus' warning in the olivet discourse. When Cestius' armies surrounded Jerusalem, it would only be a couple years until Jerusalem was desolated. It is at this point that many Jews fled the city.

But it does not fit with Matthew and Mark's accounts which mention the abomination of desolation, whereas Luke's account does not which suggests that the abomination of desolation is yet to come.
The abomination that makes desolate does not seek to destroy the Temple, but rather instead seeks to establish himself in the Temple in order to usurp the throne of God on earth by declaring himself to be God.

claninja said:
Considering the Jewish roman war finished in spring of 73ad, which involved Titus' order to completely level the temple and the city and have legion X stationed in the city, 42 months definitely fits within the time frame of the first Jewish Roman war (66ad to 73ad). unless you believe 42 months is symbolic?

It seems that you would be the one believing the forty two months to be symbolic, not me, and besides, the time span between 66 AD and 73 AD is longer than forty-two months.

claninja said:
The temple is the throne of God in the Ezekiel vision. Thus, if the river flows from the temple, it flows from the throne of God.

The throne of God in Ezekiel's vision is inside a Temple whereas in John's vision, it is not.

claninja said:
not sure what you mean by "they must be consistent". Jesus told a parable about fish being caught with the good being separated from the bad. He also told a parable about weeds being separated from the wheat. Jesus told 2 different stories, with different symbols, that both pointed to the same heavenly meaning. So your "rule" doesn't really make sense as we can in fact have to different stories, with different symbols that point to the same heavenly truth. Thus the Ezekiel temple and the New Jerusalem can both point to the same spiritual truth, despite their difference, and especially because of their similarities.

Yet both were consistent with the meaning explained which is literal. Ezekiel's vision, which you insist is symbolic, is not entirely consistent with what you claim it represents.

claninja said:
That scriptures that don't have an explanation or interpretation must be taken literally.

The scriptures were never intended to be approached in any other way except to be taken at face-value. Scriptures that are presented in a literal context are meant to be taken accordingly. Those that are presented as allegorical or symbolic are meant to be taken accordingly.

claninja said:
Paul states God already dwells in his temple on earth. Your argument sounds like one against Paul.

My argument is not against Paul who knew that God dwells in us by His Spirit.

claninja said:
I don't deny that Christ rules from a temple. I just disagree with what type of temple you are talking about.

And the Temple I am talking about is the one from which He will rule when He returns. Presently, He dwells in us by His Spirit. But eventually, He will be physically present among us, ruling from a literal Temple until the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth.

Contenders Edge · Nov 22, 2019

ebedmelech said:
Here how I see it. As I read the scriptures OT and NT, When God decrees something, it happens and no one can stop Him. He Is the Omnipotent One, not Satan.

When Jesus calls Satan "the prince of this world" it has nothing to do with Satan's authority. It has to do with the fact that as Jesus called him "the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy".

Jesus defeated Satan at the cross...its clearly stated in scripture. Therefore I will never admit Satan as anything but what he is..a liar and the father of lies.

No one is questioning whether God is more powerful than Satan and the finality of God's decrees, but when one is called a prince, that is acknowledgment that they hold a degree of authority. Being called a thief who kills and destroys is merely a description of character which fits the description of many people who have stolen killed and destroyed; most of whom have never held any recognizable positions of authority and power---our prisons are full of them by the way.

And as you acknowledged in previous posts, Satan's dominion and power are over they who are unbelieving and a present world system that has increasingly stood in opposition to the Kingdom of God, and despite Satan's defeat at the cross, he continues to do everything he can to prove the Word of God wrong, because if he could ever prevent anything that God has said from coming to pass, then he would be able to escape the one thing that he has dreaded for millennia and that is the Lake of Fire where he is destined to face eternal punishment.

But the day on which Satan suffered defeat, was not at the cross itself. When Christ died upon the cross, Satan thought he had defeated God. Remember it was Satan who, when he entered into Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus, sought to have the Messiah put to death in the first place.

But it was the resurrection of Christ by which Satan was defeated. It was by the resurrection of Christ that validated and justified the sacrifice He made for our sins and by which His power over death was demonstrated, and it is our trust in Him for the forgiveness of sins that we escape damnation, receive salvation, and are reconciled to our God.

But when a lost soul comes to Christ, it is always a blow to Satan's power and dominion and the more souls come to Christ, the less power and dominion Satan has which is why he does everything he can to keep as many captive and under his control as he possibly can and will continue to do so until he meets his final end when he is sentenced to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.

Satan's power and dominion are limited and he is not allowed to do anymore than what God permits him. Any decree Satan makes is always subject to cancelization, but God's power is without limit, His authority everlasting, His Word final and will never be canceled out and it is His dominion which has no boundaries nor will have any end.

And it is Christ who will have the final victory when Satan is forever cast into the Lake of fire to suffer torment for all eternity.

nolidad · Nov 22, 2019

keras said:
Paul correctly calls the Jews; Israelites.
However, where people like you get confused, is they are not all of Israel. As a Bible reader, you should know how Israel split into two Houses in King Rehoboam's time.
They have not rejoined as yet; Ezekiel 37 obviously remains to be fulfilled.

I do not claim any 'new revelations', just a proper understanding of what is Written.
If you think that Jesus came to save the lost House of Israel, Matthew 15:24, thinking they are only the Jews, then you have to say; Jesus failed in His mission.
But the truth is, true Israel are every faithful Christian person and as Paul tells us: of the Israelite Jews, only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Well Paul lets us know the children of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are Israel.

And yes the kingdom divided in King Rehoboams time but you forget how to discern when Israel refers to the ten tribes and when Israel refers to all the people of Abraham Isaac and Jacob! You consider yourself a Jew because you are a seed of A< I and J then? If not you are not of Israel!

Every Jew is of Israel for Israel is Jacob and they are from Jacob through the 12 tribes. Why do you have to reinterpret that?

AQnd pulling MAtt. 15:24 out of its context only demeans you. You who claim to be a writer of studies should be ashamed! For this passage is simply Jesus speaking Jews and Gentiles. Jesus also said numerous times that not all Israel would accept Him as Messiah when He was there in the flesh!

And misquoting Romans 9:27 to make it all time also demeans you! Romans 11 tells of a time (after the full number of Gentiles come in) that ALL ISRAEL will be saved according ot Gods promise and he quotes Jer. 31 to prove it!

Romans 11:25-29 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Jeremiah 31:31-37 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

See right before Jesus physically returns all Israel will be saved! Teh new covenant is made specifically with all of Israel (Israel and Judah) and we who are gentile believers are partakers not taker overs of these blessings!

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

So if Israel is the obedient faithful believers:

What does this mean:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

According to yiou faithful obedient believers are in blindness in part until the fullness fo the gentiles are come in (who are gentiles????)

I will tak god at His Word over man and His "new revelations" that reinterpret gods Word to try to make it say something it doesn't.

keras · Nov 22, 2019

nolidad said:
Well Paul lets us know the children of Abraham Isaac and Jacob are Israel.

Paul also make it quite clear that those who reject Jesus are no longer the true Israel. People can call themselves what they wish, but God knows the heart and the Jewish State of Israel is just a manmade construct, founded by atheist communists.

We all know why you must have those people on earth as a viable enity, as you believe they will be punished, but finally all redeemed. While you sit in heaven.
This idea conflicts with ALL the scripture of what will happen in the end times. Judah is unrepentant and their wickedness will never be wiped out. They will die for it. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

nolidad · Nov 23, 2019

keras said:
Paul also make it quite clear that those who reject Jesus are no longer the true Israel. People can call themselves what they wish, but God knows the heart and the Jewish State of Israel is just a manmade construct, founded by atheist communists.

We all know why you must have those people on earth as a viable enity, as you believe they will be punished, but finally all redeemed. While you sit in heaven.
This idea conflicts with ALL the scripture of what will happen in the end times. Judah is unrepentant and their wickedness will never be wiped out. They will die for it. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

Yes there is the unsaved Israel and the saved Israel.

You don't know anything of why! I must have them because the Bible in umambiguous language said they would be scattered, throughout the earth (fulfilled) they would be a hiss and by word in all the nations they went (fulfilled) and in the latter days returned to their covenanted land (being fulfilled.)

Paul was careful when He defined national Israel versus spiritual Israel! But as he said in Romans 11- at one point in time all Israel will be saved (as prophesied). One third of all living Israelis will be saved in the last three days of Daniels 70th week!

Also mis quoting pasages of Scripture demeans you ! Not one of those passages says forever. They cannot negate the prophesies god made for Israel in the future!

Zechariah 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Too bad y9ou didn't read further in AMos!

Amos 9:

9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this.

13 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.

See all these passages are referring either to the millenial kingdom or the 70th week of Daniel that I have shown you! You reject them because of some sort of predisposed anti Jewish teachings in your past!~ But God will prove His Word true and you will be forced to repent for your blasphemies! For it is God and not some athiest communists that have put Israel back in her land!

If you are not too stiff necked and stubborn you will come to see one day! I pray that day is soon.

We have beaten this dead horse as far as it can go. You can have the last word and we should give this thread its proper burial!

keras · Nov 23, 2019

nolidad said:
Yes there is the unsaved Israel and the saved Israel.
Yes of those who call themselves Israel, but are not and those who follow the Way of Jesus, who are the true Israelites of God.

If you are not too stiff necked and stubborn you will come to see one day! I pray that day is soon.

We have beaten this dead horse as far as it can go. You can have the last word and we should give this thread its proper burial!

Yes; of those who call themselves Israel, but are not as against those who follow the Way of Jesus; who are the true Israelites of God.

God will have the last Word and the Day will come when you will regret not comprehending His warnings and His Plan for us in these end times.

claninja · Nov 24, 2019

Contenders Edge said:
A red herring and semantics; the re-establishment of a Temple would not change how we worship God any more than it did after the New Covenant was established, which was before the Temple was destroyed.

Semantics or not, the opposite of not worshiping in a temple, is worshiping in a temple. The red herring would be to teach the opposite Jesus. If Jesus stated a time was coming when God's people would no longer worship in Jerusalem (John 4:21), then the opposite would be to teach that God's people will resume worshiping in Jerusalem in a temple.

Contenders Edge said:
That is still one month short of 42.

The beginning of the Jewish Roman war (Iyar 66ad) until the destruction of the temple (Av 70ad) is much longer than 42 months, hence I stated I apologize, as April of 66ad was not when the gentiles began to trample Jerusalem. While the Jewish Roman war may have started in spring of 66ad, that is most likely not when the trampling by the nations began.

Contenders Edge said:
But it does not fit with Matthew and Mark's accounts which mention the abomination of desolation, whereas Luke's account does not which suggests that the abomination of desolation is yet to come.
The abomination that makes desolate does not seek to destroy the Temple, but rather instead seeks to establish himself in the Temple in order to usurp the throne of God on earth by declaring himself to be God.

From both accounts we know that that the abomination of desolation would occur around the same time as the armies surrounding Jerusalem. For it is around the same time that they were to flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:15-16 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it

We do know that just prior to cestius beginning his siege of Jerusalem in 66ad, the seditious zealots gained control of the temple and profaned it (Wars of the Jews Book 2.17.5).

So whether or not the armies that surrounded Jerusalem during the Jewish Roman war were the abomination, we still have a historical account of Jews fleeing Jerusalem around the time of the zealots profaning the temple and the Roman armies sieging Jerusalem in 66ad.

Contenders Edge said:
It seems that you would be the one believing the forty two months to be symbolic, not me, and besides, the time span between 66 AD and 73 AD is longer than forty-two months.

I believe a solid case can be made for both symbolic or literal in regards to the 42 months. I agree that 66ad to 73 ad is longer than 42 months. But if the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations is 42 months in regards to the destruction of Jerusalem is literal, it can fit WITHIN the time frame of 66ad to 73ad.

If the authority of the beast is literally for 42 months, shouldn't it have been fulfilled in the first century since 5 kings had fallen and "one is"?
Revelation 17:10 hey are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.

Contenders Edge said:
The throne of God in Ezekiel's vision is inside a Temple whereas in John's vision, it is not.

in one aspect fish are separated into good and bad. In another aspect the wheat and tares are separated. In reality, a good fish is not the same as wheat, but they point to the same heavenly truth. The river of life flows from the ezekiel temple, where God's throne is located. the river of life also flows from the throne of God in the new Jerusalem. These visions point to the same heavenly truth: the body of Christ.

Contenders Edge said:
Yet both were consistent with the meaning explained which is literal. Ezekiel's vision, which you insist is symbolic, is not entirely consistent with what you claim it represents.

The ezekiel temple and the New Jerusalem are both consistent in describing the body of Christ, just as a good fish or wheat are consistent with describing the people of God.

Contenders Edge said:
The scriptures were never intended to be approached in any other way except to be taken at face-value. Scriptures that are presented in a literal context are meant to be taken accordingly. Those that are presented as allegorical or symbolic are meant to be taken accordingly.

I disagree, for we know that God spoke to the prophets of Israel in dreams, visions, riddles, and parables (Numbers 12:6-8, Hosea 12:10).

Contenders Edge said:
My argument is not against Paul who knew that God dwells in us by His Spirit.

Paul stated we are the temple. Paul never stated there would be a future physical temple on earth that we would worship in. Nor does Paul ever mention a future reigning of Christ from a physical temple building on earth.

Contenders Edge said:
And the Temple I am talking about is the one from which He will rule when He returns. Presently, He dwells in us by His Spirit. But eventually, He will be physically present among us, ruling from a literal Temple until the creation of the New Heavens and the New earth.

We are the temple of God as the NT clearly states. What NT scripture states Christ will rule from a literal temple building on earth in order to support your notion?

keras · Nov 24, 2019

claninja said:
Paul stated we are the temple. Paul never stated there would be a future physical temple on earth that we would worship in. Nor does Paul ever mention a future reigning of Christ from a physical temple building on earth.

Yes, while there is no physical Temple, we Christians represent it for this Church age. But that does not preclude another Temple being built and the Shekinah Glory of God being in it. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel 43:1-4
Paul DOES say there will be a new Temple; 2 Thessalonians 2:4. The Anti-Christ leader of the future One World Govt, will desecrate it.
All this will happen before Jesus Returns, as He will chain up Satan then. Jesus will rule the world from His Capital; Jerusalem, logically from His Throne in the Temple. Revelation 20:6b

Your false assertions and unbiblical claims, clanjia, are an indictment against you, for promoting dissent and confusion.

solid_core · Nov 24, 2019

keras said:
Yes, while there is no physical Temple, we Christians represent it for this Church age. But that does not preclude another Temple being built and the Shekinah Glory of God being in it. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel 43:1-4
Paul DOES say there will be a new Temple; 2 Thessalonians 2:4. The Anti-Christ leader of the future One World Govt, will desecrate it.
All this will happen before Jesus Returns, as He will chain up Satan then. Jesus will rule the world from His Capital; Jerusalem, logically from His Throne in the Temple. Revelation 20:6b

Your false assertions and unbiblical claims, clanjia, are an indictment against you, for promoting dissent and confusion.

The problem with your theology is that Jesus said He will return in the first century. Not in some thousands years distant future.

claninja · Nov 24, 2019

keras said:
Yes, while there is no physical Temple, we Christians represent it for this Church age. But that does not preclude another Temple being built and the Shekinah Glory of God being in it. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel 43:1-4
Paul DOES say there will be a new Temple; 2 Thessalonians 2:4. The Anti-Christ leader of the future One World Govt, will desecrate it.
All this will happen before Jesus Returns, as He will chain up Satan then. Jesus will rule the world from His Capital; Jerusalem, logically from His Throne in the Temple. Revelation 20:6b

Your false assertions and unbiblical claims, clanjia, are an indictment against you, for promoting dissent and confusion.

To say that Paul DOES say there will be a new temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 would be a false assertion. Paul nowhere specifically mentions a future “new” temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4. That would be your assumption biased by your eschatological belief

who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 2:4 - English Standard Version

If Paul is in fact referring to a physical temple building in 2 Thessalonians 2, well there was a a physical temple building standing in Jerusalem at the time Paul wrote this.

Please provide even 1 NT scripture that mentions believers worshiping again in an earthly physical temple building to substantiate that your interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 is correct.

keras · Nov 24, 2019

claninja said:
To say that Paul DOES say there will be a new temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 would be a false assertion. Paul nowhere specifically mentions a future “new” temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4. That would be your assumption biased by your eschatological belief

who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 2:4 - English Standard Version

If Paul is in fact referring to a physical temple building in 2 Thessalonians 2, well there was a a physical temple building standing in Jerusalem at the time Paul wrote this.

Please provide even 1 NT scripture that mentions believers worshiping again in an earthly physical temple building to substantiate that your interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 is correct.

It is your assumption of all the prophesies being fulfilled; that is wrong.
Did Titus 'exalt himself and say he was God', in 70AD? NO he did not.

The NT does refer to the new Temple in Revelation 11:1. All of this chapter remains to be fulfilled. Many OT verses tell about this new Temple.

During His first sojourn on earth, this God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell (Matt.8:20; Lk.9:28). His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, Jesus will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by the destruction of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.

· It must be in Jerusalem

· It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live

· It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King

· It must be a House that allows the correct service to such an Holy One

· It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to; to pray, worship and have audience with Him.

solid_core · Nov 24, 2019

keras said:
It is your assumption of all the prophesies being fulfilled; that is wrong.
Did Titus 'exalt himself and say he was God', in 70AD? NO he did not.

He did. All Roman emperors were proclaimed to be highest "Gods" and all other gods were supposed to be below them. They were worshipped.

And Titus became the Roman emperor, therefore the man who destroyed the temple, was proclaimed to be the highest God some years later.

How more close to the prophecy do you need to go?

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?

Yes

No

I don't know what REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY is

I don't know what SUPERSESSIONISM IS

Does it matter?

Other

I don't know

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