LDS The Mormon Angels That Were Resurrected....

Rescued One

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What caused their deaths?

These are messengers of the Lord and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as “ministering spirits” (Heb. 1:14). We learn from latter-day revelation that there are two classes of heavenly beings who minister for the Lord: those who are spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone. Spirits are those beings who either have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone (unembodied) or who have once had a mortal body and have died and are awaiting the Resurrection (disembodied). Ordinarily the word angel means those ministering persons who have a body of flesh and bone, being either resurrected from the dead (reembodied), or else translated, as were Enoch, Elijah, etc. (D&C 129).
Angels

:scratch:
 

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The Priesthood Restoration Site, formally known as the Aaronic Priesthood Restoration Site, is a historic site located in Oakland Township, Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania, United States. Due to its historical significance to Mormonism, the site is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
The site comprises property once owned, and lived on, by Joseph Smith and is the spot where Latter Day Saints believe the resurrected John the Baptist conferred the Aaronic priesthood upon Smith and Oliver Cowdery in 1829.
Priesthood Restoration Site - Wikipedia

Why was John the Baptist not worthy of Godhood? Was he not married in the temple?
 
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mmksparbud

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The Priesthood Restoration Site, formally known as the Aaronic Priesthood Restoration Site, is a historic site located in Oakland Township, Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania, United States. Due to its historical significance to Mormonism, the site is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).
The site comprises property once owned, and lived on, by Joseph Smith and is the spot where Latter Day Saints believe the resurrected John the Baptist conferred the Aaronic priesthood upon Smith and Oliver Cowdery in 1829.
Priesthood Restoration Site - Wikipedia

Why was John the Baptist not worthy of Godhood? Was he not married in the temple?


John the Baptist was not a priest how could he confer the priesthood on JS? Why was it not Moses---or even Aaron?
 
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Rescued One

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John the Baptist was not a priest how could he confer the priesthood on JS? Why was it not Moses---or even Aaron?

I like all your questions. Mormons probably believe that John the Baptist had the Priesthood.

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter; and he commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and that afterwards he should baptize me.

Accordingly we went and were baptized.

The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second.

Immediately on our coming up out of the water after we had been baptized, we experienced great and glorious blessings from our Heavenly Father. No sooner had I baptized Oliver Cowdery, than the Holy Ghost fell upon him, and he stood up and prophesied many things which should shortly come to pass. And again, so soon as I had been baptized by him, I also had the spirit of prophecy, when, standing up, I prophesied concerning the rise of this Church, and many other things connected with the Church, and this generation of the children of men. We were filled with the Holy Ghost, and rejoiced in the God of our salvation."[5]
Aaronic priesthood (Latter Day Saints) - Wikipedia

Young Priesthood Holders:

However, the lack of adult men willing to serve in Aaronic priesthood was ultimately the determining factor in the LDS Church ordaining youth. Young instructed Hunter in 1873 that each stake should have a full quorum of priests, teachers, and deacons; however, Hunter complained that he could not find willing men to fill these positions.[20] One bishop noted, "It is a difficult task to find a sufficient quantity of efficient teachers. I have thought of calling upon some of the boys."[20] Another stated, "It is very hard to get the older men to act as Teachers, but the young men come forward and are willing to take their parts and therefore we have to appoint young men where older ones should be." By the time of Young's death, he had taken the position that all boys needed some priesthood experience and that they should receive the Aaronic priesthood before reaching adulthood.[21]
Aaronic priesthood (Latter Day Saints) - Wikipedia


A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (see D&C 130:23). However, this guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We read in Acts 10 that the Roman soldier Cornelius received inspiration from the Holy Ghost so that he knew the gospel of Jesus Christ was true. But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 97).

Today people who are not members of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true (see Moroni 10:4–5). But that initial testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Chapter 21: The Gift of the Holy Ghost

Who laid hands on Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith for the Gift of the Holy Ghost?
 
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mmksparbud

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I like all your questions. Mormons probably believe that John the Baptist had the Priesthood.

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter; and he commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and that afterwards he should baptize me.

Accordingly we went and were baptized.

The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second.

Immediately on our coming up out of the water after we had been baptized, we experienced great and glorious blessings from our Heavenly Father. No sooner had I baptized Oliver Cowdery, than the Holy Ghost fell upon him, and he stood up and prophesied many things which should shortly come to pass. And again, so soon as I had been baptized by him, I also had the spirit of prophecy, when, standing up, I prophesied concerning the rise of this Church, and many other things connected with the Church, and this generation of the children of men. We were filled with the Holy Ghost, and rejoiced in the God of our salvation."[5]
Aaronic priesthood (Latter Day Saints) - Wikipedia

Young Priesthood Holders:

However, the lack of adult men willing to serve in Aaronic priesthood was ultimately the determining factor in the LDS Church ordaining youth. Young instructed Hunter in 1873 that each stake should have a full quorum of priests, teachers, and deacons; however, Hunter complained that he could not find willing men to fill these positions.[20] One bishop noted, "It is a difficult task to find a sufficient quantity of efficient teachers. I have thought of calling upon some of the boys."[20] Another stated, "It is very hard to get the older men to act as Teachers, but the young men come forward and are willing to take their parts and therefore we have to appoint young men where older ones should be." By the time of Young's death, he had taken the position that all boys needed some priesthood experience and that they should receive the Aaronic priesthood before reaching adulthood.[21]
Aaronic priesthood (Latter Day Saints) - Wikipedia


A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (see D&C 130:23). However, this guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We read in Acts 10 that the Roman soldier Cornelius received inspiration from the Holy Ghost so that he knew the gospel of Jesus Christ was true. But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 97).

Today people who are not members of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true (see Moroni 10:4–5). But that initial testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Chapter 21: The Gift of the Holy Ghost

Who laid hands on Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith for the Gift of the Holy Ghost?

Well, Moses was obviously in heaven for He spoke to Jesus so he would have been the only one to confer any sort of Priesthood on anyone as that is who God said to set up the Priesthood to begin with. Would have at least been more believable than John the Baptist! He never served as priest though he was the son of one.
 
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Rescued One

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@mmksparbud

Son of Zacharias and Elisabeth, being of priestly descent through both parents. This lineage was essential, since John was the embodiment of the law of Moses, designed to prepare the way for the Messiah and make ready a people to receive Him. He was the outstanding bearer of the Aaronic Priesthood in all history and was entrusted with its most noble mission.

His forthcoming birth and the nature of his ministry were announced to John’s father by the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:5–25). He was a child of promise, with prophecies of his mission having been given by Isaiah (Isa. 40:3) and Malachi (Mal. 3:1; see also 1 Ne. 10:7–10; 2 Ne. 31:4–8). He grew up in the desert until the time arrived for his ministry to prepare the way for the Savior.

John the Baptist
 
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mmksparbud

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@mmksparbud

Son of Zacharias and Elisabeth, being of priestly descent through both parents. This lineage was essential, since John was the embodiment of the law of Moses, designed to prepare the way for the Messiah and make ready a people to receive Him. He was the outstanding bearer of the Aaronic Priesthood in all history and was entrusted with its most noble mission.

His forthcoming birth and the nature of his ministry were announced to John’s father by the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:5–25). He was a child of promise, with prophecies of his mission having been given by Isaiah (Isa. 40:3) and Malachi (Mal. 3:1; see also 1 Ne. 10:7–10; 2 Ne. 31:4–8). He grew up in the desert until the time arrived for his ministry to prepare the way for the Savior.

John the Baptist

Yah---but he was never anointed a Priest, because there was no more priesthood after the cross. After that Jesus became our High Priest. John came to announce Jesus and he baptized Jesus---that was his role. Nothing in the bible points to John as ever holding the office of the Priest. There was no more Aaronic Priesthood, no more decedents of John to pass on the Priesthood. Mormons say they are now the Melchizedec priesthood---so how can an Aaronic priesthood, anoint a Melchizedec priest? Jesus was designated by God, not any human priest. Sooo?????:scratch:
 
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BigDaddy4

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John is regarded as one of the last people to have the proper priesthood authority as per the direct authority of the older priesthood.
Regarded only by lds. There is no scriptural support for John being a priest.
 
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ViaCrucis

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John is regarded as one of the last people to have the proper priesthood authority as per the direct authority of the older priesthood.

St. John the Baptist wasn't a priest. His father was a kohen, but he was not. The kohanim served in the Temple in Jerusalem. John the Baptist had no priesthood authority, since he wasn't a kohen, and therefore couldn't exercise any "priesthood" functions, either in or outside of the Temple.

John's ministry was, instead, prophetic. What he was doing in the wilderness was calling people to repentance in anticipation of the coming of the Messiah. John's "baptism" was a form of Jewish tevillah, or ritual washing. In Judaism ritual washings were a common thing, they were usually done in a mikveh, or ritual bath. John's washing of repentance was an invitation, for the people to ready themselves for what was coming. So when Jesus comes to John asking to be baptized, John initially refuses admitting that it was Jesus who should baptize him. But Jesus says it must be done to "fulfill all righteousness"; because this event would in effect seal John's ministry, and begin Jesus' own ministry. By undergoing John's baptism, the time has come for all which was promised to come to pass.

This is why the Acts of the Apostles makes a critical and essential distinction between John's "baptism of repentance" and Christian Baptism. As St. Paul says to the disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." After which these disciples receive Christian Baptism, "On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

John's washing was preparation for what was to come, Jesus Christ. This was central to his ministry as a prophet, as the "voice in the wilderness crying, 'Prepare the way of the LORD'", the Elijah who would come before "the great and awesome day of the LORD".

Thus from here on out, the former way of things would now be transitioning the new. The Messiah has come, and was to make Himself known, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand, believe the good news!" "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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He is the way

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St. John the Baptist wasn't a priest. His father was a kohen, but he was not. The kohanim served in the Temple in Jerusalem. John the Baptist had no priesthood authority, since he wasn't a kohen, and therefore couldn't exercise any "priesthood" functions, either in or outside of the Temple.

John's ministry was, instead, prophetic. What he was doing in the wilderness was calling people to repentance in anticipation of the coming of the Messiah. John's "baptism" was a form of Jewish tevillah, or ritual washing. In Judaism ritual washings were a common thing, they were usually done in a mikveh, or ritual bath. John's washing of repentance was an invitation, for the people to ready themselves for what was coming. So when Jesus comes to John asking to be baptized, John initially refuses admitting that it was Jesus who should baptize him. But Jesus says it must be done to "fulfill all righteousness"; because this event would in effect seal John's ministry, and begin Jesus' own ministry. By undergoing John's baptism, the time has come for all which was promised to come to pass.

This is why the Acts of the Apostles makes a critical and essential distinction between John's "baptism of repentance" and Christian Baptism. As St. Paul says to the disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus." After which these disciples receive Christian Baptism, "On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

John's washing was preparation for what was to come, Jesus Christ. This was central to his ministry as a prophet, as the "voice in the wilderness crying, 'Prepare the way of the LORD'", the Elijah who would come before "the great and awesome day of the LORD".

Thus from here on out, the former way of things would now be transitioning the new. The Messiah has come, and was to make Himself known, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand, believe the good news!" "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

-CryptoLutheran
Both John and Jesus Christ got their priesthood authority directly from God.

(New Testament | Matthew 21:25)

25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

(New Testament | John 1:6)

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Jesus conferred this priesthood on His apostles:

(New Testament | John 15:16)

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Both John and Jesus Christ got their priesthood authority directly from God.

(New Testament | Matthew 21:25)

25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

(New Testament | John 1:6)

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Jesus conferred this priesthood on His apostles:

(New Testament | John 15:16)

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Did ya notice that none of those passages say anything at all about a "priesthood authority"?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Did ya notice that none of those passages say anything at all about a "priesthood authority"?

-CryptoLutheran
Well we know that Jesus Christ has the Melchizedek priesthood. We also know that He ordained the apostles. We also know that Jesus gave Peter the binding keys which things we associate with the priesthood. The act of ordaining the apostles:


(New Testament | Mark 3:14 - 15)

14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Therefore the apostles were able to ordain elders:

(New Testament | Acts 14:23)

23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

(New Testament | Acts 16:4 - 5)

4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Titus ordained elders and at least one bishop:

(New Testament | 2 Timothy 4:23)

23 ¶ The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.

(New Testament | Titus 1:4 - 5)

4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

High priests are ordained in things pertaining to God:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:1)

1 FOR every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:
 
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BigDaddy4

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Well we know that Jesus Christ has the Melchizedek priesthood. We also know that He ordained the apostles. We also know that Jesus gave Peter the binding keys which things we associate with the priesthood. The act of ordaining the apostles:
Big deal. Still doesn't answer my question below:
If John the Baptist did not have the "proper priesthood authority", then is Jesus' baptism invalid?? :scratch:
The requirement of your church for salvation/exaltation includes baptism by one who holds the "proper priesthood authority". As @ViaCrucis points out in post #13, John was not a priest and therefore did not have this "proper priesthood authority" to baptize Jesus as the lds claim he did.

No authority, no valid baptism, right?
 
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Big deal. Still doesn't answer my question below:

The requirement of your church for salvation/exaltation includes baptism by one who holds the "proper priesthood authority". As @ViaCrucis points out in post #13, John was not a priest and therefore did not have this "proper priesthood authority" to baptize Jesus as the lds claim he did.

No authority, no valid baptism, right?
ViaCrucis does not believe that John the Baptist held the proper priesthood to baptize. There were also people that believed that Jesus did not have authority do what He did:

(New Testament | Matthew 21:23 - 27)

23 ¶ And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

So is baptism of men or is it from heaven?:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:4)

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
 
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BigDaddy4

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ViaCrucis does not believe that John the Baptist held the proper priesthood to baptize. There were also people that believed that Jesus did not have authority do what He did:
As usual, you avoid answering the question. And you haven't dealt with the fact that John wasn't a priest. How could he be? After all, he was in the desert for a number of years and there's no evidence to support he went through the training required to be a priest.

John is a great example of how the lds "priesthood authority" concept is nothing more than made up theology from the mind of Joseph Smith.
 
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