Randomness. Chance. Predestination.

Rescued One

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Well, maybe someday I'll figure it out.

“O Lord, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so that we fear you not?” (Isaiah 63:17)

“There is no one who calls on your name, who rouses himself to take hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us, and have handed us over to our iniquities” (Isaiah 64:7).

I believe His plans will not be thwarted.
 
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Bob Crowley

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Randomness. Chance. Predestination.

I don't have the answers either. When the numbers drop in the slots for a Gold Lotto draw, we have no way of knowing the outcome as we don't know enough about the all the forces involved. But God does, and can probably predict the outcome well beforehand.

In any case, in His unbounded "now", He just sees things happen anyway.

I'll tell a couple of personal stories first. I've often stated that the night my father died, he appeared in my room. We argued, talked and at the end he gave this absolutely terrifying scream. Then he just disappeared.

But during the proceedings at one point he exclaimed "I always was doomed! I didn't really have any choice!" I argued back saying that couldn't be right. He replied, "Oh, it's right, all right. You can see that from here." But later he admitted "I was WILLING" (to act the way he did).

Fast forward about 26 years, and I was driving a cab at night, part time. One night I happened to be in the suburb where he died, and found my way to Rivington Street, Nundah, which was the very street in which he died. This got me thinking about the apparition, and also some of his predictions which were rather grim.

So I prayed specifically for some sort of "sign" that what he said could be trusted. I got back this sense that I ought to know better than to ask for a "sign", but I persisted. Now I don't think it was that shift, but the next one two days later when I queued up on the Queen Street Rank which was my preferred rank.

I waited my turn, and eventually a bloke came wandering up, a bit the worst for wear, and just said "Nundah!" I said "Whereabouts in Nundah?" He replied with some impatience "Just drive! I'll tell you where to go!" So off we went, turned here and there, and ended up in, you guessed it, Rivington Street, Nundah. Not only that, but if my father died at No. X Rivington Street, this bloke wanted to go to X-1 Rivington Street, pretty much just across the road from the flat where my father died.

You might put it down to coincidence, but I think I got my "sign". Now I had free will where I drove, there were traffic lights, other drivers, radio jobs, and my place in the queue. Then there was the other bloke's "free will" who decided to come out of the hotel at just the right time to hop into my particular cab to go just to the particular address which would satisfy a "Sign".

We think we're in charge, but are we really?

To be honest, it felt like there was a hint of divine irritation in the way the bloke said "Just drive! I'll tell you where to go!". Like God was saying "You ought to know better!"
 
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renniks

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He obviously didn't plan for every sinner to be saved.

John 8
21 Then said Jesus again unto them (the Pharisees), I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. 22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
I'm not sure what you mean about him planning for every sinner to be saved. These verses tell us what happens when we don't believe. That's on us, not him. Yes, he knows some will reject his offer, but the offer is free to all.
 
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Blade

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Forgive me.. not sure if this fits into this. Now I am NOT saying I believe this but.. it does make one think about TIME and GOD. This preacher that knew Hebrew Jewish ways was talking about Moses and when Moses saw God? He broke down the words and just tossed this out there as.. maybe when Moses saw God was the same time Jesus on the MTN of transfiguration. lol I know its way out there but.. it does make me think about GOD and time. He is out side time.

Hes in the past the now and future at the same time. My head hurts
 
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SPF

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I agree with Jonathan Edwards who said that at any given time we always act according to our greatest influence. Now what our greatest influence is at any given time may be influenced by a whole myriad of internal and external influences. But every single choice we make and every action we take is always based upon our greatest inclination at that moment.

So do I have free will? Sure. I can make choices, I make them all the time. But the choices are always influenced by something either internally or externally.
 
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Rescued One

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I'm not sure what you mean about him planning for every sinner to be saved. These verses tell us what happens when we don't believe. That's on us, not him. Yes, he knows some will reject his offer, but the offer is free to all.

The offer might be there but sinners don't want it and don't understand spiritual things.
 
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Rescued One

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Forgive me.. not sure if this fits into this. Now I am NOT saying I believe this but.. it does make one think about TIME and GOD. This preacher that knew Hebrew Jewish ways was talking about Moses and when Moses saw God? He broke down the words and just tossed this out there as.. maybe when Moses saw God was the same time Jesus on the MTN of transfiguration. lol I know its way out there but.. it does make me think about GOD and time. He is out side time.

Hes in the past the now and future at the same time. My head hurts
Moses didn't see God's face.
 
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renniks

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The offer might be there but sinners don't want it and don't understand spiritual things.
That's where grace comes in. Everyone gets a chance. We are all given enough light to find salvation. If not, then the condemnation of those who don't seek God could not be justice.
 
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Rescued One

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That's where grace comes in. Everyone gets a chance. We are all given enough light to find salvation. If not, then the condemnation of those who don't seek God could not be justice.

Your idea of justice shouldn't trump God's.

Christian any-goodness-in-a-sinner-or-all-gods-mercy.jpg


I'm bowing out of this conversation. I agree to disagree.
 
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renniks

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Your idea of justice shouldn't trump God's.

View attachment 267013

I'm bowing out of this conversation. I agree to disagree.
My idea of justice doesn't trump Gods. Christ died once for ALL. That's biblical.
I'm not sure what the purpose of the quote you posted is. It doesn't take any special goodness to humble yourself before God.
 
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