Anyone converted to Christianity due to Christian Apologetics arguments?

zippy2006 · Nov 20, 2019

BigV said:
In your opinion, what would be a reason to disbelieve Christianity?

Well I gave one already: if someone believes that Christianity requires belief in a flat earth, then they would have a reason to disbelieve Christianity (the argument came up recently here). For others we could simply look to the Christian Apologetics forum:

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
Apologetics isn't intended to convert the skeptic. It is intended to help Christians justify and defend their faith.

And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

dzheremi · Nov 20, 2019

So when/if they do, then you'll leave atheism and move on to something else? :scratch:

I can't imagine basing my entire worldview on the contingency that people not lie. That's like the #1 thing people do. We lie so much it actually marks a positive stage in cognitive development.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 20, 2019

Nihilist Virus said:
And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

So, they never contradict themselves or stray out with inconsistent rhetoric as they speak across generations of other atheists? They all see the world the same way and arrive at their conclusions with the same, identical set of reasons and they all form a solid front of solidarity and a consensus no matter what as they seek to unseat Christianity from its High White Horse?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 20, 2019

Nihilist Virus said: ↑
And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

Hello N V.

I was born, baptized and raised into a Roman Catholic family in 1950 and have always been a Christian.
I didn't really delve into the Bible until 2003 and have been reading/studying it ever since [including the Hebrew and Biblical Greek]. My faith in Jesus is stronger than ever.

The whole Bible is all about the Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ and redemption from death and hades......It began with Adam and Eve, then Israel and ended with Israel.........
==============================================
The Tree/Wood of Life is mentioned both in Genesis 2:9 and Revelation 2:7"

Gen 2:9
And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Isaac was a type of Jesus [and from whom the promise was to come thru]. Like Jesus, he was bound and laid upon the wood and was saved at the last moment:

Genesis 22:
9 And they come in unto the place of which 'Elohiym hath spoken to him, and there Abraham buildeth the altar, and arrangeth the wood/06086 `ets, and bindeth Yitschaq his son, and placeth him upon the altar above the wood/06086 `ets; 10 and Abraham putteth forth his hand, and taketh the knife--to slaughter his son.
13 And Abraham is lifting his eyes and behold a ram behind being held in thicket, in horns of him and Abraham is going and and he is taking the ram and he is offering up him as ascent offering instead of his son.
-----------------------------------
Jesus was bound on a wooden stake by nails, but unlike Isaac, He died and was buried. [He later resurrected and ascended into heaven]

Acts 13:29 and when they did finish all the things written about Him, having taken down from the wood/xulou<3586>, they laid Him in a tomb;

The Tree of Life is mentioned in the last book of Revelation in the NT:

Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” '

Rev 22:2
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments,[fn] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
=================================
This is a fairly good comprehensive site that gives a plethora of views of the Bible from various Denominations/Sects within Christianity, including the various Eschatological views and views of the early centuries Jews, the ancient Church and ECFs for those interested.

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

"There is little doubt about the authenticity of the Apocalypse of John. The blessings and warnings contained in that open book continue to impact lives. If you are interested in having a more spiritual life, consider diving into the Apocalypse's deep waters now. Seeing the state of your soul immediately will help save time for the Holy Spirit to use in purifying your world.

Jesus is Israel Study Archive
King Jesus Christ Israel.
The Focus of All Bible Prophecy

Scriptures give the Christ different names. Sometimes they call Him Jacob: ‘Jacob, my son, I will help thee; Israel, my chosen, my soul hath received him, he shall bring judgment unto the nations.’ – Eusebius, AD 312

SEE ALSO:

0150: Justin Martyr, A Dialogue with Trypho – On the Identification of Israel

0600: “Veronica”, The Avenging of the Savior

1769: John Gill, The Body of Divinity: Christ, the Surety of the Covenant

1877: Henry Drummond, The Jewish Messiah: A Critical History of the Messianic Idea Among the Jews from the Rise of the Maccabbees to the Closing of the Talmud

1885: John Thomas, The Signs of the Son of Man’s Presence at the Destruction of Jerusalem

1921: Philip Mauro, The Hope of Israel

1999: Randall Otto, Jesus the Preterist – A Review of Sproul

2008: Todd Dennis, The Lord Jesus Christ the Telos and Eschaton

ALL MAJOR SYSTEMS OF THEOLOGY ARE AT FAULT, BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE ISRAEL, AND HIS NAME IS HOLINESS TO THE LORD

ISRAEL IS THE SYMBOLIC NAME OF JESUS CHRIST

“Israel is my son, even my firstborn”
(Ex. 4:22 cf. Hosea 11:1/Matthew 2:15)

Jacob and the Hebrews were given the honor to serve as placeholders of the name ‘Israel’ until the True Israel would arrive. When He arrived in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the symbol no longer served its purpose and vanished away on a gloomy day. Whatever the promises of God have been, are, and forever will be, they are all fulfilled with a hearty Amen! in Jesus Christ. Without the proper identification of Israel, therefore, the major theological systems are broken. This includes certain of my preterist friends – with a friendly shout out to my I/O buddies. They can be scrapped together with idealism to revive, but they would have to entirely subsume (see pic) the natural Israel within the True Israel.

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
So, they never contradict themselves or stray out with inconsistent rhetoric as they speak across generations of other atheists? They all see the world the same way and arrive at their conclusions with the same, identical set of reasons and they all form a solid front of solidarity and a consensus no matter what as they seek to unseat Christianity from its High White Horse?

Huh?

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello N V.

I was born, baptized and raised into a Roman Catholic family in 1950 and have always been a Christian.
I didn't really delve into the Bible until 2003 and have been reading/studying it ever since [including the Hebrew and Biblical Greek]. My faith in Jesus is stronger than ever.

The whole Bible is all about the Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ and redemption from death and hades......It began with Adam and Eve, then Israel and ended with Israel.........
==============================================
The Tree/Wood of Life is mentioned both in Genesis 2:9 and Revelation 2:7"

Gen 2:9
And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Isaac was a type of Jesus [and from whom the promise was to come thru]. Like Jesus, he was bound and laid upon the wood and was saved at the last moment:

Genesis 22:
9 And they come in unto the place of which 'Elohiym hath spoken to him, and there Abraham buildeth the altar, and arrangeth the wood/06086 `ets, and bindeth Yitschaq his son, and placeth him upon the altar above the wood/06086 `ets; 10 and Abraham putteth forth his hand, and taketh the knife--to slaughter his son.
13 And Abraham is lifting his eyes and behold a ram behind being held in thicket, in horns of him and Abraham is going and and he is taking the ram and he is offering up him as ascent offering instead of his son.
-----------------------------------
Jesus was bound on a wooden stake by nails, but unlike Isaac, He died and was buried. [He later resurrected and ascended into heaven]

Acts 13:29 and when they did finish all the things written about Him, having taken down from the wood/xulou<3586>, they laid Him in a tomb;

The Tree of Life is mentioned in the last book of Revelation in the NT:

Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” '

Rev 22:2
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments,[fn] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
=================================
This is a fairly good comprehensive site that gives a plethora of views of the Bible from various Denominations/Sects within Christianity, including the various Eschatological views and views of the early centuries Jews, the ancient Church and ECFs for those interested.

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

"There is little doubt about the authenticity of the Apocalypse of John. The blessings and warnings contained in that open book continue to impact lives. If you are interested in having a more spiritual life, consider diving into the Apocalypse's deep waters now. Seeing the state of your soul immediately will help save time for the Holy Spirit to use in purifying your world.

Jesus is Israel Study Archive
King Jesus Christ Israel.
The Focus of All Bible Prophecy

Scriptures give the Christ different names. Sometimes they call Him Jacob: ‘Jacob, my son, I will help thee; Israel, my chosen, my soul hath received him, he shall bring judgment unto the nations.’ – Eusebius, AD 312

SEE ALSO:

0150: Justin Martyr, A Dialogue with Trypho – On the Identification of Israel

0600: “Veronica”, The Avenging of the Savior

1769: John Gill, The Body of Divinity: Christ, the Surety of the Covenant

1877: Henry Drummond, The Jewish Messiah: A Critical History of the Messianic Idea Among the Jews from the Rise of the Maccabbees to the Closing of the Talmud

1885: John Thomas, The Signs of the Son of Man’s Presence at the Destruction of Jerusalem

1921: Philip Mauro, The Hope of Israel

1999: Randall Otto, Jesus the Preterist – A Review of Sproul

2008: Todd Dennis, The Lord Jesus Christ the Telos and Eschaton

ALL MAJOR SYSTEMS OF THEOLOGY ARE AT FAULT, BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE ISRAEL, AND HIS NAME IS HOLINESS TO THE LORD

ISRAEL IS THE SYMBOLIC NAME OF JESUS CHRIST

“Israel is my son, even my firstborn”
(Ex. 4:22 cf. Hosea 11:1/Matthew 2:15)

Jacob and the Hebrews were given the honor to serve as placeholders of the name ‘Israel’ until the True Israel would arrive. When He arrived in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the symbol no longer served its purpose and vanished away on a gloomy day. Whatever the promises of God have been, are, and forever will be, they are all fulfilled with a hearty Amen! in Jesus Christ. Without the proper identification of Israel, therefore, the major theological systems are broken. This includes certain of my preterist friends – with a friendly shout out to my I/O buddies. They can be scrapped together with idealism to revive, but they would have to entirely subsume (see pic) the natural Israel within the True Israel.

OK. You went off on a bit of a tangent there. Were you looking to just say your peace and leave, or were you offering to answer my questions?

NeverL0ved · Nov 20, 2019

BigV said:
If so, I'd like to ask what did it for you?

Thanks.

Christian apologetics never convinced me that Jesus was the creator of the universe.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 20, 2019

Nihilist Virus said:
Huh?

I'll be clearer: Which atheists NEVER lied to you, NV?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 20, 2019

BigV said: ↑If so, I'd like to ask what did it for you?
Thanks.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said: ↑Apologetics isn't intended to convert the skeptic. It is intended to help Christians justify and defend their faith.

Nihilist Virus said: ↑
And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions did you want to ask?. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello N V.

I was born, baptized and raised into a Roman Catholic family in 1950 and have always been a Christian.
I didn't really delve into the Bible until 2003 and have been reading/studying it ever since [including the Hebrew and Biblical Greek]. My faith in Jesus is stronger than ever.

The whole Bible is all about the Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ and redemption from death and hades......It began with Adam and Eve, then Israel and ended with Israel.........
==============================================
The Tree/Wood of Life is mentioned both in Genesis 2:9 and Revelation 2:7"

Gen 2:9
And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Isaac was a type of Jesus [and from whom the promise was to come thru]. Like Jesus, he was bound and laid upon the wood and was saved at the last moment:

Genesis 22:
9 And they come in unto the place of which 'Elohiym hath spoken to him, and there Abraham buildeth the altar, and arrangeth the wood/06086 `ets, and bindeth Yitschaq his son, and placeth him upon the altar above the wood/06086 `ets; 10 and Abraham putteth forth his hand, and taketh the knife--to slaughter his son.
13 And Abraham is lifting his eyes and behold a ram behind being held in thicket, in horns of him and Abraham is going and and he is taking the ram and he is offering up him as ascent offering instead of his son.
-----------------------------------
Jesus was bound on a wooden stake by nails, but unlike Isaac, He died and was buried. [He later resurrected and ascended into heaven]

Acts 13:29 and when they did finish all the things written about Him, having taken down from the wood/xulou<3586>, they laid Him in a tomb;

The Tree of Life is mentioned in the last book of Revelation in the NT:

Rev 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” '

Rev 22:2
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments,[fn] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
=================================
This is a fairly good comprehensive site that gives a plethora of views of the Bible from various Denominations/Sects within Christianity, including the various Eschatological views and views of the early centuries Jews, the ancient Church and ECFs for those interested.

The Preterist Archive of Realized Eschatology

"There is little doubt about the authenticity of the Apocalypse of John. The blessings and warnings contained in that open book continue to impact lives. If you are interested in having a more spiritual life, consider diving into the Apocalypse's deep waters now. Seeing the state of your soul immediately will help save time for the Holy Spirit to use in purifying your world.

Jesus is Israel Study Archive

Nihilist Virus said:
OK. You went off on a bit of a tangent there. Were you looking to just say your peace and leave, or were you offering to answer my questions?

Off tangent according to whom? And since you brought it up, what ton of questions do you want to ask?

You read the Bible "when you became a man "? So did I. Your point?

Nihilist Virus said: ↑And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

And how were you lied to? Was this before or after you deconverted?

After all you said you are an ex-Christian, implying that you believed in the Jesus of the Bible at some point.
=====================
This is the original OP [or perhaps in your case, the question should be "anyone deconverted from Christianity due to....]

Anyone converted to Christianity due to Christian Apologetics arguments?

BigV said:
If so, I'd like to ask what did it for you?
Thanks.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Nov 20, 2019

Nihilist Virus said:
And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

You were a Christian who never read the Bible until you were a man?

Eight Foot Manchild · Nov 20, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
You were a Christian who never read the Bible until you were a man?

That’s hardly remarkable. A lot of Christians have never read the Bible.

And in my experience, that’s not limited to young Christians. Recently, I had to explain to a friend’s mother that the gospels are four different accounts of (essentially) the same story. She thought it was one continuous story, split up over four books. This woman has been going to church for eighty years.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Nov 20, 2019

Eight Foot Manchild said:
That’s hardly remarkable. A lot of Christians have never read the Bible.

And in my experience, that’s not limited to young Christians. Recently, I had to explain to a friend’s mother that the gospels are four different accounts of (essentially) the same story. She thought it was one continuous story, split up over four books. This woman has been going to church for eighty years.

The point is that it may be quite possible that his biblical illiteracy and lack of a firm biblical foundation left him with a weak faith which resulted in him losing his faith. You know, the typical "house built on sand" situation.

BigV · Nov 20, 2019

zippy2006 said:
Well I gave one already: if someone believes that Christianity requires belief in a flat earth, then they would have a reason to disbelieve Christianity (the argument came up recently here). For others we could simply look to the Christian Apologetics forum:

Clearly the Bible, taken literally, teaches a model that contradicts spheroid shaped Earth. However, most people, including Christians, are adept at rationalizing away their beliefs, especially if they are very committed to their religion. What they do is explain away the inconvenient passages.

So, the firmament in Genesis, where the Sun, the Moon and the Stars are placed in it, with water above it, becomes a figure of speech.

John Calvin thought it foolish to claim that the Earth moves around the Sun.

John Calvin on Nicolaus Copernicus and Heliocentrism - Articles

[The Christian is not to compromise so as to obscure the distinction between good and evil, and is to avoid the errors of] those dreamers who have a spirit of bitterness and contradiction, who reprove everything and prevent the order of nature. We will see some who are so deranged, not only in religion but who in all things reveal their monstrous nature, that they will say that the sun does not move, and that it is the earth which shifts and turns. When we see such minds we must indeed confess that the devil posses them, and that God sets them before us as mirrors, in order to keep us in his fear.

Enough of a reason to leave Christianity? Of course not. If Calvin were alive today, he'd just re-interpret his understanding of Scripture rather than admit that the Scripture is wrong.

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
I'll be clearer: Which atheists NEVER lied to you, NV?

Sam Harris.

Or did you mean atheists in my personal life?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 20, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said: ↑
Apologetics isn't intended to convert the skeptic. It is intended to help Christians justify and defend their faith.

Nihilist Virus said: ↑
And it fails spectacularly. It merely depends on how much one presses for answers.

I was once a Christian. When I became a man, I decided to read the Bible for myself. I came away with a ton of questions. Upon being lied to nearly every time I asked a question, I decided to hear atheism out. They haven't lied to me yet.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
You were a Christian who never read the Bible until you were a man?

Eight Foot Manchild said:
That’s hardly remarkable. A lot of Christians have never read the Bible.

And in my experience, that’s not limited to young Christians. Recently, I had to explain to a friend’s mother that the gospels are four different accounts of (essentially) the same story. She thought it was one continuous story, split up over four books. This woman has been going to church for eighty years.

Interesting. Any sources for that?
Would that also include a lot of ex-Christians?

[Love the username............"Eight Foot Manchild"]

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Off tangent according to whom?

According to me.

And since you brought it up, what ton of questions do you want to ask?

Let's close out these other loose threads first.

You read the Bible "when you became a man "? So did I. Your point?

I learned that there's a lot of stuff in there that are never addressed at the pulpit. Did you not notice that?

And how were you lied to? Was this before or after you deconverted?

It was before I deconverted. I can get into the specific lies when we close up these loose ends.

After all you said you are an ex-Christian, implying that you believed in the Jesus of the Bible at some point.

Correct.

=====================
This is the original OP [or perhaps in your case, the question should be "anyone deconverted from Christianity due to....]

Anyone converted to Christianity due to Christian Apologetics arguments?

Yes, correct. My original point was off topic. But don't use that as an excuse to duck out if the questions get too tough. Please either agree to answer them or don't.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 20, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
This is the original OP

Anyone converted to Christianity due to Christian Apologetics arguments?

[or perhaps in your case, the question should be "anyone deconverted from Christianity due to....]

Nihilist Virus said:
Yes, correct. My original point was off topic. But don't use that as an excuse to duck out if the questions get too tough. Please either agree to answer them or don't.

So what's your questions?

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:
You were a Christian who never read the Bible until you were a man?

The *entire Bible.

Nihilist Virus · Nov 20, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
So what's your questions?

There are flaws in the Bible (contradictions, unintentionally false statements, etc). Either God cannot or God will not prevent this from occurring. Which is it and why?

And if you tell me I'm not allowed to question God, I'll remind you that I'm questioning you.

Anyone converted to Christianity due to Christian Apologetics arguments?

Dragonsworn

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Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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His Supreme Holy Correctfulness

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