What was in the Upper Floor of Solomon's Temple?

rakovsky

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Is the word description "chimney" replacing a Lashon(word) description for challon(window) is the question?

חלון

Hei
Lamed
Vav
Nun

The Hebrew Alphabet
Pinacled,
Joseph Patrick says that the Temple had Lulin, and he says that Lulin in Hebrew means chimneys. So my question was whether he was right that Lulin means chimneys.
I don't know if the Hebrew word Lulin translates as chimneys in English.

I wasn't able to find the answer myself.
 
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rakovsky

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The answer to the thread must be that the Upper Floor served a purpose related to the functioning of the Temple, or it could have served as a meeting place for the nation.
  • One purpose was for maintenance workers to get into the Holy of Holies according to the Middot, but this was probably not the only purpose for so large a space.
  • It could have been for storage of treasures, but one possible objection is that there were chambers on the sides of the Temple that are commonly considered to have been used for storage.
  • One hypothesis is that it served as resting quarters, because the "Aliyah" of Judean houses and synagogues commonly served as guest quarters, as in Elijah's and Elisha's upper chambers (eg. 2 Kings 4:10) and the "Upper Room" for the Last Supper. But this possibility is ruled out, because the Jewish Encyclopedia's article on the Administration and Service of Temple says that "the priests were not allowed to sit down, much less to sleep" within the sacred premises of the courtyards, and so instead they slept on the "hel", an outer platform surrounding the courts, and a priest slept on a slab covering the key to the Temple. (TEMPLE, ADMINISTRATION AND SERVICE OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com) This implies that one could not sleep or sit in the Temple premises, although there was an exception for the Davidic kings.
  • Another theory is that women were allowed to pray there. In synagogues, both men and women attend, whereas the women stay on the Second Floor of Orthodox Jewish synagogues. Plus, above the Court of the Israelites there was an upper floor that served as the Court of the Women. So based on these analogies, perhaps women could also enter the Temple, but they would have to be on its Second Floor. But one problem with this theory is that maybe only priests were ever allowed into the Temple building itself, although I read a theory that the Temple virgins who in Jewish tradition helped with functions like weaving Temple materials could enter. Another problem would be it ritual purity laws banned women from entering the Temple. In her article "Mary in the Protevangelium of James: A Jewish Woman in the Temple?", Megan Nutzman theorizes that there was an exception granted to "accused adulteresses, to girls who wove the temple curtains, and to female Nazirites" so that they could enter the Temple. She notes that in the Mishnah, female Nazirites were allowed to wave their own offerings.
  • Another theory was that it served as a place of prayer and other liturgical functions. But there is no direct support for this.
  • Another theory is that it could have served as a place for important functions of the Temple. For instance, in the above-mentioned essay, Nutzman writes: "The Tosefta also confirms that fabrication of the curtains was a female task, and indicates that the workers took their salary from the heave-offering of the sheqel-chamber in the temple treasury (t. Sheqal. 2:6)". Perhaps there were chambers holding important items on the second floor, or priests could use it for functions like eating or washing or gathering and assembling materials for their liturgical rights that they performed on the first floor.
  • Another theory is that it was used for gatherings of the nation, but there is not any support for this theory either, and it would also come up against the problem of whether anyone but the priests were allowed inside the Temple itself.
Out of all these theories, it looks like the best are that it was an added functional area, like for holding prayers, for storage of Temple-items and treasures, or for preparing for their liturgical rights that they held on the first floor. I think that it was most likely used for prayers and storage of holy items because the walls were gold. The Jews had treasures like the ones that Hezekiah showed the Babylonians.

So basically like Fergusson wrote, it looks like a question without a clear answer because the usage of the upper floors was not specified in the ancient literature.
 
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pinacled

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Pinacled,
Joseph Patrick says that the Temple had Lulin, and he says that Lulin in Hebrew means chimneys. So my question was whether he was right that Lulin means chimneys.
I don't know if the Hebrew word Lulin translates as chimneys in English.

I wasn't able to find the answer myself.
I don't recall any description of chimneys in The TaNaKh, especially in relation to the Mishkan and the given temple visions.
It's likely that someone projected this notion as means of intent.
So there is no need to find an explanation for the likely intended error.

If you are seeking The Truth in studying the temple visions.
Leave the scholastic philosophers alone.
While in studying in the spirit The Lord will build character and integrity to the armor freely offered your soul.
"As iron sharpens iron...."

Blessed be The Holy One
 
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rakovsky

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The Lulin are the openings in the ceiling of the Holy of Holies:
Reconstructing the Magnificent Temple Herod Built · The BAS Library
An Upper Chamber extended above the Sanctuary and the Holy of Holies. ..... the Upper Chamber through openings (lulin) in the floor, cut right through the ceiling
Referring to 1 Kings 6:8, another source says:
The first difficulty comes from the Hebrew text of Verse 8 in which one word is defective. The word appears as “Lullim” and then translated to English as “Winding Stairs. ‘ Scholars point out that if the word is really “Lullim” it appears nowhere else in the Old Testament, but an associated word “Lulin” appears in several passages of the Jewish code known as the “Mishna” and later called the “Talmud.”

One reference reads: “there were Lulin in the upper chamber opening into the Holy of Holies, by which the workmen were let down in baskets, so that they should not feed their eyes on the Holy of Holies.” Most translators translate this word to mean “opening” while others translate the word as “Trap-doors.” The Jewish Encyclopedia, Volume 12, pp. 85,92 says that the word ”Lullin” refers to “trap-doors” but gives no supporting evidence to the meaning.
MasonicWorld.com
This wording about the trapdoors sounds like the description of the trapdoors over the Holy of Holies in the Middot that I referenced earlier. It sounds like one writer called it chimneys but the Jewish Encyclopedia calls Lulin trapdoors.
 
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pinacled

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The Lulin are the openings in the ceiling of the Holy of Holies:

Referring to 1 Kings 6:8, another source says:
This wording about the trapdoors sounds like the description of the trapdoors over the Holy of Holies in the Middot that I referenced earlier. It sounds like one writer called it chimneys but the Jewish Encyclopedia calls Lulin trapdoors.
I'm not sure what you mean to explore in descriptive details.

The Holy of Holies where the ark resides is sealed.
It seems as if you are conflating in a manner by continually citing unknown sources.
If you do not desire to have fellowship in study of Torah.
I suggest you find another sub-forum to abide time in.
 
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pinacled

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Thanks for a nice discussion, Pinacled.
Thankyou for the hospitality.

If ever you need to sharpen iron in spirit.
Remember the swords edge is invisible when raised to strike.
While the two surfaces of the sword reflect an intended move, stand with equal measure, and guard your heart.

Blessings Always
 
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pinacled

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Thanks for a nice discussion, Pinacled.
Study and consider the possibility that there is no roof upon over the sanctuary of the minyan(congregation of ten men) who gather during sukkot.
Consider the possibility of witnessing the stars as avraham, havel, and all prophets have for generations.

Question:
In doing so I wonder if any person would claim a roof is visible upon the temple vision given shlomo and yecheskel.
 
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rakovsky

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Study and consider the possibility that there is no roof upon over the sanctuary of the minyan(congregation of ten men) who gather during sukkot.
Consider the possibility of witnessing the stars as avraham, havel, and all prophets have for generations.

Question:
In doing so I wonder if any person would claim a roof is visible upon the temple vision given shlomo and yecheskel.
I can make a relevant observation that in Eastern Orthodoxy, the stars are depicted on the roof domes of some Orthodox churches. They have domes in imitation of the dome of heaven.
My guess would be that since a temple is called a Beit, and since houses normally have walls and roofs, then the normal connotation is that the temples or Beit Hamikdash of Adonai in the vision would also have a roof. That is my guess.
 
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pinacled

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I can make a relevant observation that in Eastern Orthodoxy, the stars are depicted on the roof domes of some Orthodox churches. They have domes in imitation of the dome of heaven.
My guess would be that since a temple is called a Beit, and since houses normally have walls and roofs, then the normal connotation is that the temples or Beit Hamikdash of Adonai in the vision would also have a roof. That is my guess.
Seeing the Stars Through the Sukkah Hut?
 
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pinacled

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I can make a relevant observation that in Eastern Orthodoxy, the stars are depicted on the roof domes of some Orthodox churches. They have domes in imitation of the dome of heaven.
My guess would be that since a temple is called a Beit, and since houses normally have walls and roofs, then the normal connotation is that the temples or Beit Hamikdash of Adonai in the vision would also have a roof. That is my guess.
The relevance of observations are dependant upon a persons Faith in Yeshua.
If provided both armor and fruits in the spirit
Where would such a person store such a treasury of seed from fruits in the spirit?
Familial bonds of generations of peacemakers are wonderfully knit together in Love.
Like ten men and their wives who represent a garment of ten curtains of certain measure.

Storing seeds from fruits in chambers or vaults upon the walls will yield according to Torah if the trees are left untouched for a certain number of years throughout a 7 shmitah cycle.
שמיטה

Blessed are the meek.."
 
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