Historist View is the Only View

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Hello everyone!

My name is Benjamin Holliday and I am an avid believer in the historical to present view of Daniel and Revelation. I believe the futurist view will simply never happen and many Christians are being mislead by such teachings. I also believe the Seventh Day Adventists are wrong in many ways on their views.

I invite any discussion or debate on the End Times provided people stay polite to those with different End Time views. I am willing to answer any questions people may have about them.

If during the course of the following discussions/debates you want to learn more about what I have to say I do have a book available on Amazon Kindle called The Revealing of Daniel and Revelation: A Detailed Study of the End Times. I am not here to promote my book, but to help others learn about the End Times free of charge.

Let me begin by saying I believe the historical view of Daniel and Revelation because the 70 weeks prophecy that proves Jesus is the Messiah uses the prophetic day to idealistic lunar year ratio from Ezekiel 4 and proves the days in Daniel are to be taken as based on a 360 day per year ratio, and since the 4th beast of Daniel is what Revelation is about, the 42 month/1260 day prophecy is actually 1241.889117 solar years long.

Anyone have any thoughts or questions on that? I will answer questions the best I can in a timely manner.
 

Ken Rank

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No disrespect, just a general observation in the form of a question. Why do Christians concentrate so much on two books, Revelation and Daniel? What about all the rest of the Prophets... or how about the Torah? It is all God's word, and yet I see nobody trying to reconcile, for example, Deuteronomy 30:1-6, or Ezekiel 37 and the two sticks, or even Jeremiah 31 and the 2 Houses, into their end time positions.
 
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I invite any discussion or debate on the End Times provided people stay polite to those with different End Time views.

When you start with "my view is the only view", it does not seem to support an objective and neutral debate.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Let me begin by saying I believe the historical view of Daniel and Revelation because the 70 weeks prophecy that proves Jesus is the Messiah uses the prophetic day to idealistic lunar year ratio from Ezekiel 4 and proves the days in Daniel are to be taken as based on a 360 day per year ratio, and since the 4th beast of Daniel is what Revelation is about, the 42 month/1260 day prophecy is actually 1241.889117 solar years long.

Anyone have any thoughts or questions on that?
That reason is not significant nor unique to what it seems you chose to believe.

It does not contradict other true revelations from Yahuweh revealing His Meaning of Scripture that may or can or do contradict what you (from /in/ this one post) apparently believe.
 
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keras

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No disrespect, just a general observation in the form of a question. Why do Christians concentrate so much on two books, Revelation and Daniel? What about all the rest of the Prophets... or how about the Torah? It is all God's word, and yet I see nobody trying to reconcile, for example, Deuteronomy 30:1-6, or Ezekiel 37 and the two sticks, or even Jeremiah 31 and the 2 Houses, into their end time positions.
I do use the whole Bible in a proper understanding of the end time events.
The two Houses of Israel and Judah are very important in knowing God's Plan for His people. I have written many articles on these things. Free at logostelos.info

Let me begin by saying I believe the historical view of Daniel and Revelation because the 70 weeks prophecy that proves Jesus is the Messiah uses the prophetic day to idealistic lunar year ratio from Ezekiel 4 and proves the days in Daniel are to be taken as based on a 360 day per year ratio, and since the 4th beast of Daniel is what Revelation is about, the 42 month/1260 day prophecy is actually 1241.889117 solar years long.

Anyone have any thoughts or questions on that? I will answer questions the best I can in a timely manner.
B.H. your careful calculations have no use or value, as a year is simply one orbit of the earth around the sun. No more, no less.

Belief that all the prophecies have been fulfilled, is preterism.
Do you believe that Jesus will Return? If so then your preterism is just partial and is therefore allowed here.
But the idea of any past fulfilment, excepting the obvious ones about Jesus first Advent, etc, simply doesn't relate to the historical record. You have to make them out to be allegorical or spiritualize them.
This is hard to do when we see the very plain descriptions of things like the sun darkened, the moon blood red, the short time rule of the Anti-Christ, etc.

The clearly stated fact is: we do have a future, we who love the Lord, will have His blessings and eventually receive immortality. John 3:16
 
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The Deuteronomy 30:1-6 prophecy was fulfilled with the returning of the exiles from Babylon around Nehemiah and Ezra's time through to the Great Commission. It's important to remember that prophecy in conjunction with Jeremiah 3, especially verse 17 in addition to Jeremiah 31. Israel being gathered from all nations, and all nations being gathered to Jerusalem is a reference to what Jerusalem stands for, God's people/Christians (whether or not they are physically an "Israelite" or not).

The descendants of the Israelites spread across the whole of Europe and lost their Israelite name. This is why Rome came to rule over the land area it did, and why Jesus said He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel and yet said to go to all nations in Matthew 28 in the Great Commission. Matthew 24:14's word for "world" is oikoumene. It is 3625 in Strong's book. It means the extent of the Roman Empire. That was the "world" back then at Jesus' time.

The tribes that returned in Jesus' time were just of the House of Judah and the House of Ephraim was gathered with the Great Commission and the spread of Christianity across Europe and Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Most nowadays refer to the books of Daniel and Revelation for End Time prophecies because they deal with us. At least that's my take on it.

As far as starting out with my view is the only view, no debate is purely objective and neutral. Objectiveness is a subset of subjectivity for it's ultimately ones subjective opinion that constitutes objectivity and we aren't robots. We are people with lived experiences, emotions, and feelings we can't fully get rid of no matter how we try. I'm hoping the title will stir futurists to reply so we can have discussion on the End Times instead of them just reading the title and moving on to the next title.
 
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I'm not a preterist. The prophetic use of year is not a solar year. In Revelation the periods of 42 months, 1260 days, and 3.5 years are all equal to each other based on a month consisting of 30 days and a year consisting of 365.25 days. The ratio of prophetic time to real time in Ezekiel 4 is based on the ancient Jews use of the calendar. It is important because the 1260 day Tribulation consists of 1241.889117 solar years and lasted from April 16th of 556 AD to March 7th of 1798. The Tribulation deals with the period of time the Catholic Church reigned supreme over the world.

As far as the plain descriptions of the sun darkening and the moon turning to blood, what do you make of Acts 2:1-21 when those terms were applied to the Day of Pentecost? It was an allegorical fulfillment then.

Thoughts?
 
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keras

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"year consisting of 360 days, not 365.25"*
The anomaly of the 1260 days and 42 months equaling 3 1/2 years is resolved by the fulfilment of Isaiah 13:13....the earth will be moved from her place.
This 'moving' will happen when the massive CME from the sun strikes the earth, as described in many prophesies about the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath. Isaiah 30:26-30, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1, +
It will strike the earth a glancing blow, pushing the earth along its orbital track, increasing our speed from 66,000mph to about 66,400mph, thereby making a 360 day year.
 
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That's an interesting thought and good job on the math, but the book of Enoch explains why 360 days. They took the solar year to be 364 days and for the first 4 days of the seasons these were intercalary days which were not counted into the year. (Enoch 82). Thus resulting in the 360 days per year the prophetic calendars of Daniel and Revelation use.

I believe the events of Revelation have mostly occurred, but they are still occuring as is the 70th week of Daniel which is to be taken in a squared fashion compared to the 69 weeks, resulting in a 2520 idealistic lunar calendar year period starting with Jesus death. There is no mysterious gap of 7 years thrown to who knows when into the future.

The rapture the futurists are looking for is an internal event within the believer signifying they are in the world but not of it. There is no magical disappearing of Christians from this Earth.

The talk of nature events such as mountains moving and blood moons and eclipses are in reference to people and social events and not literal nature events.
 
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Christian Gedge

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Benjamin Holliday said:
The prophetic use of year is not a solar year. In Revelation the periods of 42 months, 1260 days, and 3.5 years are all equal to each other based on a month consisting of 30 days and a year consisting of 365.25 days. The ratio of prophetic time to real time in Ezekiel 4 is based on the ancient Jews use of the calendar. It is important because the 1260 day Tribulation consists of 1241.889117 solar years ...

Thoughts?

Welcome Benjamin to the forum. :)

The ancient Hebrew calendar is an interesting subject, and many have had a go at it. My reconstruction is here: I hope it adds to the topic.
 
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Douggg

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That's an interesting thought and good job on the math, but the book of Enoch explains why 360 days. They took the solar year to be 364 days and for the first 4 days of the seasons these were intercalary days which were not counted into the year. (Enoch 82). Thus resulting in the 360 days per year the prophetic calendars of Daniel and Revelation use.

I believe the events of Revelation have mostly occurred, but they are still occuring as is the 70th week of Daniel which is to be taken in a squared fashion compared to the 69 weeks, resulting in a 2520 idealistic lunar calendar year period starting with Jesus death. There is no mysterious gap of 7 years thrown to who knows when into the future.

The rapture the futurists are looking for is an internal event within the believer signifying they are in the world but not of it. There is no magical disappearing of Christians from this Earth.

The talk of nature events such as mountains moving and blood moons and eclipses are in reference to people and social events and not literal nature events.
Hi Benjamin, welcome to the forum.

How do the 3 1/2 days that the two witnesses lay dead in the streets, in Revelation 11:11-12, correspond to the 3 1/2 years, and not 3 1/2 days?
 
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I do use the whole Bible in a proper understanding of the end time events.

Talking about that.....year 2019 is coming to an end.

Didn`t you predict great happenings , peace plan in the Middle East going through and the like ?

Seems even more improbable now that us is sayin Israel`s illegal settlements are ok for this administration.

New timetables available ?
 
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Thank you. Your calendar site is very informative. Thanks for sharing it with me.

The time that the witnesses say dead in the streets is the same time frame as the 1260 days, that calculate out to 1241.88117 solar years. This happened with the inauguration of Pope Pelagius I on April 16th, 556 AD and lasted through when the Pope was taken out of temporal power on February 20th, 1798 AD, although the calculation lands on March 7th, 1798. The reason it starts with Pope Pelagius I is because he was the first ruling pope after the destruction of the 3 Arian Christian nations making the Catholic church the undisputed rulers over the world (the area of Roman rule constituting the world as based on Matthew 24:14 and the greek word oikoumene). The Catholic church is the beast out of the sea and ruled over the whole world for over 1000 years and has suppressed the truth and held mankind in darkness.

I do not believe the millenial kingdom has happened yet. For its fulfillment I am not looking for Jesus to literally be ruling over a temporal kingdom for 1000 years. I believe what we are looking at is a time when Jesus will be ruling over men's hearts in the temple of God (man), and it will be a time of great spiritual awakening in which society makes great advances to maturity. I believe it is close as we have access to the internet and the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea Scroll caches of books were discovered. There are more hidden caches of books that will come out and science will eventually recognize the existence or at least possibility of a spiritual realm. With the internet the sons of darkness that exist in every age are no longer able to control the flow of information and suppress the truth and control society as they have been able to in the past. Thanks to the constitutional framework of our society where individual freedom is promoted the groundwork has been laid for mankind to advance to a greater degree of spiritual maturity than in the past.

Thoughts?
 
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Pope Vigilius was still alive when the 3rd Arian Christian nation was destroyed, but he was in exile and died before he made it back to Rome to rule. That's why the calculation starts with Pope Pelagius I, since he was the first ruling Pope after the 3rd Arian Christian nation was destroyed.
 
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Ken Rank

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I do use the whole Bible in a proper understanding of the end time events.
The two Houses of Israel and Judah are very important in knowing God's Plan for His people. I have written many articles on these things.
In fairness Keras, I wasn't talking about you, it was more a statement (question) in general. I remember not too long ago, going to a Christians books store and for 2 hours I thumbed through the eschatology section. As best I could tell, over 40-50 books I picked up and not one included the most repeated prophecy in Scripture. Nobody (hardly) in the Christian realm talk about it because they are raised to read the Psalms, Proverbs and the NT.

I will ask you and @Benjamin Holliday and this is NOT for any other reason then to show that this line of reasoning is absent from the faith... to tell me what the most repeated prophecy is? Don't Google anything, just off the top of your head, what is the most repeated prophecy in the bible?

Thanks and blessings.
 
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Off the top of my head I'd say that it would be the restoration of Israel, as for the fulfillment I believe it happened with the return of the exiles from Judah and the Great Commission and in no way refers to the state of Israel today.
 
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Off the top of my head I'd say that it would be the restoration of Israel, as for the fulfillment I believe it happened with the return of the exiles from Judah and the Great Commission and in no way refers to the state of Israel today.
I won't wait for Keras..... I have to get to work. Israel divided into two nations.... Judah to the south, Israel to the north. Israel after 200 years of idolatry and ignored warnings by prophets, were taken into Assyria as punishment. They never returned. Rather than cry out to God and repent, they instead accepted the pagan gods around them and assimilated into their culture. When the youngest were the eldest, nobody remembered God any more.

Judah, the southern Kingdom, pretty much remained in God's graces but they, too, fell away. Taken into Babylon as punishment, they did not assimilate and ultimately were released and allowed to go home. We can trace their history perfectly... they are the Jewish people.

So we have the Jewish people and a second ground that the bible does not call Jewish, that became known to those that were not taken into Assyria as "the lost sheep of the House of Israel." 2000+ years ago, Yeshua began a call into the nations to turn these people back to the God of Israel and one day they would be reunited with Judah, never again to be divided. When they reunite, they will (according to Hosea) appoint for themselves a head, a king... and that will be Yeshua as there has not been a king over a united Israel since Solomon.

Thus, the most repeated prophecy in Scripture is the reuniting of both Kingdoms... it is literally in almost every OT book.

The people we see returning to the land are not the northern Kingdom. Why? Because these are Torah keeping tribes and peoples from various nations who have been following the Torah (God's instructions) all along. The Northern Kingdom has NOT been following God.... they gave Him up for idols, they ceased to retain Him in their minds... and this is how we know (in part) that those returning to the land from obscure places are NOT what we are looking for. I believe... and this is just my personal belief... that the Northern Kingdom is found in church pews. Descendants and non-descendants who have come to Yeshua in faith having heard the call from the Shepherd. Sheep coming back to their Master.
 
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