JLB777

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Hebrews 10:26 says that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.


While I agree with your perspective concerning salvation and the different aspects that all must be reconciled, Hebrews 10:26 concerns a different aspect of salvation and needs to be carefully understood and not misapplied.


That aspect of salvation is “falling away” or departing from Christ while under persecution.


The context for Hebrews 10, is found in Hebrews 3, and runs throughout the chapters being touched on n Chapter 6 and and finding its conclusion at the end of Chapter 10.


The word “fall away” (in it’s original), comes from the Lord’s teaching about the parable of the Sower.


Hebrew Christians in the first century, especially in and around Jerusalem, were under a constant pressure from unbelieving Jews, to turn these Hebrew Christian’s back to Judaism.


Judaism, is a religion that rejects Jesus as Messiah and Lord, claiming He was a false prophet.


So for a Hebrew Christian, to turn back to Judaism, they would have to renounce Jesus as Messiah and Lord, which would be to depart from Him, or fall away.

This is what would happen under persecution.

This is what Saul of Tarsus used to do.


Let’s look at that teaching about the parable of the Sower to see the these dynamics.


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
Luke 8:11-15


Scripture Keys:


then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


Believe = Saved


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


Believe for a while = Saved for a while



This word “fall away” is also found in Hebrews 3:12-14, and is rendered “depart from”.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


The entire book of Hebrews is written to Hebrew Christians to show them who Christ is, and to ground their faith in the fact the Jesus is Lord, the creator of heaven and earth, the very Lord of the Old Testament; The One who became flesh to set them free.

That they would be faithful even unto death.



JLB
 
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JLB777

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“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

You must first be born again (saved) to believe.


You are teaching False doctrine.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Whosoever believes in Him...


Here is the Gospel according to Calvinism -



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever is predestined to be saved believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



Your teaching a false Gospel.




JLB
 
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Dave L

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You are teaching False doctrine.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Whosoever believes in Him...


Here is the Gospel according to Calvinism -



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever is predestined to be saved believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



Your teaching a false Gospel.




JLB
You are reading free will into the passage. It does not say whoever chooses to believe.
 
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JLB777

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You are reading free will into the passage. It does not say whoever chooses to believe.


I didn’t say whoever chooses to believe.

The scripture plainly says...whoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


  • whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Believing comes first from whoever.
Then comes everlasting life.


Your “gospel” is backwards.


You teach that a person must be saved first then they can believe.

That’s “another” Gospel.




JLB
 
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Dave L

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I didn’t say whoever chooses to believe.

The scripture plainly says...whoever believes.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


  • whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Believing comes first from whoever.
Then comes everlasting life.


Your “gospel” is backwards.


You teach that a person must be saved first then they can believe.

That’s “another” Gospel.




JLB
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
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redleghunter

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Hebrews 10:26 says that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
I think Mark Kennedy sometime ago confronted you with this. That the above verse shows there's no coming back (apostasy). Is that your point? If so then some people in the Bible need to be reassessed because they willfully sinned. Peter comes to mind. Jesus told him that he would deny Him three times, Peter said 'no way' and he still denied Christ three times. This was willful because Peter did it three times and was warned he would do it. Yet Christ confronted Peter and forgave him.

So is Peter an apostate? No of course not. So perhaps we can take that passage, even the entire theme of Hebrews within context before a lot of people here go running to the prayer thread asking if they are an apostate.

I would just take note that the author of Hebrews took a long time explaining (1) Jesus as the High Priest in chapter 7, (2) The New Covenant in Chapter 8, (3) comparing the New Covenant with the Old chapter 9, and (4) leading up to your verse a dissertation on Jesus as the One sufficient sacrifice for sins. When we get to Hebrews 10:26 we need to keep this in mind. Was the problem in the Hebrew community addressed some lascivious hedonism? No, that was Corinth. What the author was banging on in every chapter was how some were not convinced of Who Jesus really was/is, the better covenant and the Only sacrifice for sins. The old ways (Levitical) are past and the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only sufficient atonement.

We can conclude there were some Hebrews there addressed who were (1) not totally convinced of Jesus being the once for all sacrifice and High Priest but still presented themselves as part of the sect of The Way (2) some who were double dipping and acknowledged Christ as Messiah but still participated in the Levitical sacrifices when going to Jerusalem. On (1) the author is warning even as far back as chapter 6 that this head knowledge and not full committal will end up in condemnation, and (2) if you are still going back to the old ways even though you proclaim verbally Jesus is Messiah there's no going back when you reject Christ and His once for all sacrifice. The willful sin here is unbelief in the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ and also He being our High Priest.
 
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While I agree with your perspective concerning salvation and the different aspects that all must be reconciled, Hebrews 10:26 concerns a different aspect of salvation and needs to be carefully understood and not misapplied.


That aspect of salvation is “falling away” or departing from Christ while under persecution.


The context for Hebrews 10, is found in Hebrews 3, and runs throughout the chapters being touched on n Chapter 6 and and finding its conclusion at the end of Chapter 10.


The word “fall away” (in it’s original), comes from the Lord’s teaching about the parable of the Sower.


Hebrew Christians in the first century, especially in and around Jerusalem, were under a constant pressure from unbelieving Jews, to turn these Hebrew Christian’s back to Judaism.


Judaism, is a religion that rejects Jesus as Messiah and Lord, claiming He was a false prophet.


So for a Hebrew Christian, to turn back to Judaism, they would have to renounce Jesus as Messiah and Lord, which would be to depart from Him, or fall away.

This is what would happen under persecution.

This is what Saul of Tarsus used to do.


Let’s look at that teaching about the parable of the Sower to see the these dynamics.


“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
Luke 8:11-15


Scripture Keys:


then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


Believe = Saved


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.


Believe for a while = Saved for a while



This word “fall away” is also found in Hebrews 3:12-14, and is rendered “depart from”.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


The entire book of Hebrews is written to Hebrew Christians to show them who Christ is, and to ground their faith in the fact the Jesus is Lord, the creator of heaven and earth, the very Lord of the Old Testament; The One who became flesh to set them free.

That they would be faithful even unto death.



JLB

I have been aware of this view for a very long time. In fact, I believe it (except that I do not think Hebrews 10:26 is bound or stricted in the way that you suggest here). Granted, I do believe Hebrews 3, and Hebrews 10 is talking about Messianic Jews who wanted to go back to sacrificing animals under the OT system so as to avoid persecution. But while Hebrews 10:26 is in view of this kind of sin that they were considering in doing, I believe Hebrews 10:26 can be expanded to any kind of sin that leads to spiritual death. The prodigal son was dead when he was living a life with prostitutes. The prodigal son had willfully sinned and the sacrifice of Christ was no longer applied to his life. There was no more sacrifice for sin for him while he was willfully sinning against God.

Hebrews 3 talks about sin in general and how it can harden a person's heart in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:17 refers to the sin of the Israelites and how they fell in the wilderness. The sin of the Israelites in the OT was a different kind of sin than the sin of going back to the Old Testament sacrificial system so as to avoid persecution.
 
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I think Mark Kennedy sometime ago confronted you with this. That the above verse shows there's no coming back (apostasy). Is that your point? If so then some people in the Bible need to be reassessed because they willfully sinned. Peter comes to mind. Jesus told him that he would deny Him three times, Peter said 'no way' and he still denied Christ three times. This was willful because Peter did it three times and was warned he would do it. Yet Christ confronted Peter and forgave him. So is Peter an apostate? No of course not. So perhaps we can take that passage, even the entire theme of Hebrews within context before a lot of people here go running to the prayer thread asking if they are an apostate.

I don't believe Mark Kennedy said anything that refuted what I said with Scripture (if you believe otherwise, show his post and I will explain it with Scripture). Anyways, while Hebrews 10:26 does refer to apostasy, Hebrews 3 talks about how sin (in general) can harden our hearts in departing from the Living God.

As for Peter: Peter did not have the Holy Ghost yet when he denied the Lord. Hebrews 6:4-6 is suggesting that we cannot deny the Lord while under the Spirit and have the possibility for forgiveness again. Peter also sought forgiveness with the Lord before seeing Jesus again (See Christ's prophetic words to Peter in Luke 22:32, Note: the word "converted" is suggesting repentance or seeking with forgiveness with the Lord, see: Acts of the Apostles 3:19). To be "converted" means to be saved again (See: James 5:19-20).
 
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One time I was watching a tv show and the main character was involved in some meditation stuff. I thought it was interesting and I decided to try it. That night I had a dream that a known Pastor was eating at a table with some of his friends. (Jesus disguises himself as other people in dreams so you don't freak out if you see Him) In the dream that Pastor called me and started talking to me and he noticed I had a bracelet made out of beads. He said it looked interesting. Then later in the dream I encountered the Pastor again, he was about to eat with his friends at a table and he asked me to join him. He looked at my bracelet again and he said it looked interesting and he looked at me with kind eyes. I woke up.

So I searched for information about the bracelet and I found out it was a buddhist bracelet. I didn't know, but the meditation the character was practicing had a root in buddhism. I stopped meditating that way.

Did I break a commandment? Probably. But God didn't get mad, I didn't lose my salvation, He was being a good Father and lead me to the truth. I repented and its all in past.

I understand your point of view. As I've stated before, I lived in fear, but then a relationship started developing and I started recognizing His voice. He says His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. What you are writing is in the same Bible that I am reading, but I just know I will make mistakes, not willingly, but that He is there, that He knows me and He will guide me to the right path.

I truly believe my sins are forgiven and I can rest in Him and I live my days learning to become more like Him. Again, I never said not to follow Jesus commandments, all I am saying is to try to find the heart/the reason behind them. That way you will do them from a transformed heart instead of doing them because you have to.

I've stated all I had to say. I feel we are going in circles again and my message will stay the same because that is the revelation I've received so far. I really wish you well.

I am not against God's grace for those who are genuine in their desire to seek true forgiveness with God. But this would be past sin only, and not future sin. Saying that we are forgiven of all sin (including future sin) implies that we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level (Which is a violation of Jude 1:4). For if a person has an evil heart on wanting to hold on to their sin later on, and they never really were broken up about their sin to forsake it genuinely, then they are just faking that they are sorry. For if a man cheats on his wife, and keeps telling her that he is sorry (But he has no intention of stopping his adultery), is he really sorry? No. Of course not. It is the same with God. But make no mistake, the Bible warns against how sin can destroy us spiritually (unless we confess and forsake those sins). if you want to be a good student of God's Word, try doing a study on the following verses below (Note: Oh, and do not try to change the verses below in what they say or try to explain them away because you don't like them; Just read them, and believe them in what they plainly say).


The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD,

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

"Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears." (John 9:31).

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.” (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
(Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
 
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JLB777

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“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)


So true.

Unfortunately this scripture you posted doesn’t say anything about what we are discussing.



Do you have eyes to see, and simply read what is so plainly written?

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



Believe and be saved, not be saved then believe.


This is the doctrine from Jesus Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.


You are teaching God’s people heresy, which is not what Jesus taught.




JLB
 
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JLB777

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But while Hebrews 10:26 is in view of this kind of sin that they were considering in doing, I believe Hebrews 10:26 can be expanded to any kind of sin that leads to spiritual death.


The only way Hebrews 10:26 can be applied, is to those who have departed from Christ, in which they have no other sacrifice for sin, so the next time they sin, they are eternally damned.


Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29


Trampling the Son of God underfoot in which His blood is counted as a common thing and insulting the Spirit of grace does not occur because we sin, but because we renounce Christ as a false messiah and turn back to Judaism, because we caved in to the pressure of persecution.


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39


The context is summed up is this.... drawing back means turning away from Christ.



JLB
 
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Dave L

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So true.

Unfortunately this scripture you posted doesn’t say anything about what we are discussing.



Do you have eyes to see, and simply read what is so plainly written?

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



Believe and be saved, not be saved then believe.


This is the doctrine from Jesus Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.


You are teaching God’s people heresy, which is not what Jesus taught.




JLB
Do you think the devil can thwart salvation?
“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” John 6:39 (KJV 1900)
 
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Job3315

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I am not against God's grace for those who are genuine in their desire to seek true forgiveness with God. But this would be past sin only, and not future sin. Saying that we are forgiven of all sin (including future sin) implies that we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level (Which is a violation of Jude 1:4). For if a person has an evil heart on wanting to hold on to their sin later on, and they never really were broken up about their sin to forsake it genuinely, then they are just faking that they are sorry. For if a man cheats on his wife, and keeps telling her that he is sorry (But he has no intention of stopping his adultery), is he really sorry? No. Of course not. It is the same with God. But make no mistake, the Bible warns against how sin can destroy us spiritually (unless we confess and forsake those sins). if you want to be a good student of God's Word, try doing a study on the following verses below (Note: Oh, and do not try to change the verses below in what they say or try to explain them away because you don't like them; Just read them, and believe them in what they plainly say).


The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD,

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

"Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears." (John 9:31).

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.” (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
(Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
Oh, I agree with you on that. A person who sins thinking they will receive grace in the future doesn't understand what Jesus did, because if he did, he would be completely changed.

Peter was going to sin against Jesus 3 times, yet Jesus forgave him because only God know someones heart. Jesus knew what Peter was going to do, even if Peter, himself, didn't. All I know is I am no one to judge, unless the Holy Spirit judges himself and warns me about someone, I do not question others salvation because that's something very personal. If I see someone sinning and I feel led to pray for them I do, but I only let God be the judge of salvation.
 
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The only way Hebrews 10:26 can be applied, is to those who have departed from Christ, in which they have no other sacrifice for sin, so the next time they sin, they are eternally damned.


Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29


Trampling the Son of God underfoot in which His blood is counted as a common thing and insulting the Spirit of grace does not occur because we sin, but because we renounce Christ as a false messiah and turn back to Judaism, because we caved in to the pressure of persecution.


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39


The context is summed up is this.... drawing back means turning away from Christ.



JLB

Certainly sounds like an ironclad close and shut case, and I don't disagree that Hebrews 10 is primarily dealing with apostasy or rejection of Christ by going back to the OT system so as to avoid persecution, but I need to pray about it some more and re-read through the book of Hebrews again to get a better feel for it in what it is saying in this case. Sometimes there is a secondary truth that can be expressed by a verse or passage. For example: Messianic prophecies in the OT express a primary truth of what was happening in that moment, but the secondary truth of them alluded to the Messiah (Jesus).
 
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The only way Hebrews 10:26 can be applied, is to those who have departed from Christ, in which they have no other sacrifice for sin, so the next time they sin, they are eternally damned.


Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29


Trampling the Son of God underfoot in which His blood is counted as a common thing and insulting the Spirit of grace does not occur because we sin, but because we renounce Christ as a false messiah and turn back to Judaism, because we caved in to the pressure of persecution.


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39


The context is summed up is this.... drawing back means turning away from Christ.



JLB

James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son both talk about falling away into sin and out of service to the Lord with them being dead spiritually, and yet they were accepted again at a later time via by being converted again or by repentance. While apostasy is clearly a topic of discussion in Hebrews 3, Hebrews 6, and Hebrews 10, I believe that the elements that give rise to apostasy like sin hardening a person's heart can cause a person to simply fall away from the Lord for a time with the chance that they can repent again and be saved again. Granted, there is no forgiveness if one rejects Christ after having received the Lord, but I believe it is still a true statement to say that we cannot willfully sin (like say "murdering, or lying, or committing adultery") and yet still have Christ's sacrifice applied to our lives. We cannot willfully choose to sin and be saved. Even if the verse is talking primarily about apostasy in context, Hebrews 10:26 can be expanded or extended to refer to how we cannot sin and still be saved, as well; For apostasy or rejection of Christ is a sin. In other words, generally speaking, the secondary truth of Hebrews 10:26 is expressing that sin causes a separation between God and man.
 
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Oh, I agree with you on that. A person who sins thinking they will receive grace in the future doesn't understand what Jesus did, because if he did, he would be completely changed.

Peter was going to sin against Jesus 3 times, yet Jesus forgave him because only God know someones heart. Jesus knew what Peter was going to do, even if Peter, himself, didn't. All I know is I am no one to judge, unless the Holy Spirit judges himself and warns me about someone, I do not question others salvation because that's something very personal. If I see someone sinning and I feel led to pray for them I do, but I only let God be the judge of salvation.

Look. Jesus said if a person looks upon a woman in lust, their whole body can be cast into hellfire. That means that sin can separate a person from God. You can try to change the words of Jesus here, but He meant what He said. It is not judging a person's salvation, but is a general teaching on how sin can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake those sins.
 
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The only way Hebrews 10:26 can be applied, is to those who have departed from Christ, in which they have no other sacrifice for sin, so the next time they sin, they are eternally damned.


Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29


Trampling the Son of God underfoot in which His blood is counted as a common thing and insulting the Spirit of grace does not occur because we sin, but because we renounce Christ as a false messiah and turn back to Judaism, because we caved in to the pressure of persecution.


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39


The context is summed up is this.... drawing back means turning away from Christ.



JLB

I believe the road to apostasy can take different forms. The problem is always sin or disobedience to God's good ways or His commands or a lack of trust in God.

Hebrews 3:17 mentions how the Israelites had fell in the wilderness. Their sin was not going back to the OT sacrificial system but it was in wanting to follow those leaders in going back to Egypt. In Numbers 13, and Numbers 14: We learn that the Israelites were afraid of the giants in the Promised Land. They did not trust God was going to protect them. They were being motivated by fear and a lack of faith. King Saul also committed apostasy. His fall started when he decided to no longer wait for the priest to arrive, and he decided to perform the priestly duties and offer a sacrifice (Which was disobedience to God's command). I believe Judas stealing from the collection is what hardened his heart in betraying the Lord. Again, sin is what caused the downward spiral. Sin is what caused their hearts to be hard and to eventual fall away from the Lord altogether. Yes, I believe Hebrews 10:26 is primarily dealing with the sin of those Messianic Jews who were trying to go back to the OT system so as to avoid persecution, but it is also equally true that we know that we cannot justify in doing certain sins and expect the sacrifice of Christ to be applied to our lives. We need to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin (1 John 1:9), and we need to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light is loving one's brother (1 John 2:9-11).
 
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JLB777

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Do you think the devil can thwart salvation?
“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” John 6:39 (KJV 1900)


Only you can choose to serve God or serve the devil.


And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15


You can choose to wander away from Him and become lost.


And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7



We must remain “in Christ” or we will be cast into the fire and burned.


Here is how we remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB
 
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Dave L

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Only you can choose to serve God or serve the devil.


And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15


You can choose to wander away from Him and become lost.


And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost! I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7



We must remain “in Christ” or we will be cast into the fire and burned.


Here is how we remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB
OT Law depended on free will. But it could not save. Only bring temporal earthly rewards.

If you treat the gospel like law which depends on free will, you destroy grace and the gospel.
 
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JLB777

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OT Law depended on free will.


So you teaching us that under the New Covenant, we no longer have a free will? LOL!

You are funny, and very deceived.


We must believe in order to be saved.


It’s totally false to teach people they must first be saved then believe.


Please explain to us how a person becomes born again, if they don’t believe the Gospel?



JLB
 
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