Democrats don't want origins of Ukraine probe revealed, just as they didn't want Russia probe known

wing2000 said:

In the preceding sentence, the Ukrainian President asked about those Javelin missiles, Trump responds as you noted...and then when on to mention reference the Bidens by name. Asking a foreign leader to investigate a potential political opponent is a favor for personal political gain.

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Not if his motivation had nothing to do with 2020. If you have documentation of which clearly states this and I mean CLEARLY states beyond a shadow of a doubt than you might have an argument Until then you're wanting to impeach a President on a speculative notion. As much as you may not like Trump one issue should TRUMP even that......that being that you don't set up a horrendous precedent for all future holders of the Presidential office who can be impeached on something that's not absolutely proven to be the case.

I can assure you future generations may share your idea of not caring to Trump but none-the-less hate you or the present political system for what they've done. Any President they have may have an almost impossible time of making it through their term thus even discouraging the nation's best and most talented from ever considering the job and what a tragedy that'd be.

LostMarbels said:

(Thus far), we have heard from 3 (individuals). none of those three individuals have met or spoken with president Trump in the last year. None of them were on the July 25th call in question. None of them have first-hand information of that call, and none of them are aware of any criminal activity or impeachable offense.
John Ratcliffe

So why do people keep calling them witnesses? What have they witnessed?

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Hang on ... first-hand witnesses will be testifying this week, some of them graciously provided by the president via a shared open-air phone conversation in a Kiev cafe ... witnessed by 2-3 others, I think ...

Of course, there's Gordon Sondland, who appears to be a lynchpin witness (i.e. he knows everything), ... but also Suriya Jayanti, and Tara Maher.

wing2000 said:

You can refute my statement:
"I have yet to see any Republican "test the stories of witnesses" by challenging what he or she said."

...by citing a Republican who has challenged the public testimony of the witnesses.

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There is no need of validating a false claim. None of these individuals witnessed anything. Why challenge no I didn't hear... no I didn't see.... no I was not there... no I haven't spoken with the President?

A_Thinker said:

Hang on ... first-hand witnesses will be testifying this week, some of them graciously provided by the president via a shared open-air phone conversation in a Kiev cafe ... witnessed by 2-3 others, I think ...

Of course, there's Gordon Sondland, who appears to be a lynchpin witness (i.e. he knows everything), ... but also Suriya Jayanti, and Tara Maher.

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Hence: (Thus far)

LostMarbels said:

There is no need of validating a false claim. None of these individuals witnessed anything. Why challenge no I didn't hear... no I didn't see.... no I was not there... no I haven't spoken with the President?

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There have been multiple witnesses who were on the call, others (Sondland) who spoke to Trump, and others who witnessed the pressure being put on Ukraine to directly investigate Burisma and the 2016 conspiracy theory. If you believe what you wrote, then you haven't been following the story closely enough.

Mark my words. We are about to have our turn.

LostMarbels said:

Mark my words. We are about to have our turn.

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About 9 days hence ???

A_Thinker said:

About 9 days hence ???

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How am I supposed to know? I believe things will kick off with an IG report that is reportedly over a thousand pages long. That 'should' come out around Thanksgiving. But I do not set dates.

LostMarbels said:

How am I supposed to know? I believe things will kick off with an IG report that is reportedly over a thousand pages long. That 'should' come out around Thanksgiving. But I do not set dates.

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LostMarbels said:

You are going to be shocked once this IG report surfaces. I assume around the 28th. For the first time we have a administration that is going to remove them.

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LostMarbels said:

That is what you are currently witnessing. The first President that actually defeated the deep state. This is history in the making.

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And? I state I am making an assumption, and that I do not know. What are you getting at?

LostMarbels said:

And? I state I am making an assumption, and that I do not know. What are you getting at?

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You seem to know about events forth-coming.

Just trying to get a sense of the time-frame in which we should expect them ...

Bobber said:

Not if his motivation had nothing to do with 2020. [
If you have documentation of which clearly states this and I mean CLEARLY states beyond a shadow of a doubt than you might have an argument Until then you're wanting to impeach a President on a speculative notion.

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We don't hold our criminal courts to this standard of evidence -- after all, criminals rarely state their motives so clearly. In any case, I find the claim that 2016 "investigations" have nothing to do with 2020 election as not credible and naive if you truly believe that. Trump truly believes he can dig up political dirt anywhere and use his executive power to do so.

As much as you may not like Trump one issue should TRUMP even that......that being that you don't set up a horrendous precedent for all future holders of the Presidential office who can be impeached on something that's not absolutely proven to be the case.

I can assure you future generations may share your idea of not caring to Trump but none-the-less hate you or the present political system for what they've done. Any President they have may have an almost impossible time of making it through their term thus even discouraging the nation's best and most talented from ever considering the job and what a tragedy that'd be.

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No President, until now, has ever attacked the people who serve our country abroad in embassies and consulates around the world. His lack of respect for foreign service officers is disgusting. The nation's best talent was on display last week when dedicated and non-partisan foreign service officers testified before the committee. Their dedication and devotion to our country and its values was clear.

A_Thinker said:

You seem to know about events forth-coming.

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Same internet you have access to. I'm not a guru or something. I also watch a lot of mindlessly boring stuff. And even things I am completely opposed to because I love knowledge. I want to know and I seek it. In this age the info is at your finger tips. All one has to do is look.

A_Thinker said:

Just trying to get a sense of the time-frame in which we should expect them ...

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My personal opinion, to tarry much longer would be criminal concerning the Trump administration. There is at this point, no reason they cannot move forward. To not move forward with criminal indictments would be a cover up by the Trump admin at this point. My opinion.

LostMarbels said:

Same internet you have access to. I'm not a guru or something. I also watch a lot of mindlessly boring stuff. And even things I am completely opposed to because I love knowledge. I want to know and I seek it. In this age the info is at your finger tips. All one has to do is look.

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How do you discern ... what is true and what is not ?

I get a half-dozen calls per day, plus e-mails, plus snail mails ... where people are clearly lying to me.

How do you decide ... who is lying and who us not ?

wing2000 said:

We don't hold our criminal courts to this standard of evidence -- after all, criminals rarely state their motives so clearly. In any case, I find the claim that 2016 "investigations" have nothing to do with 2020 election as not credible and naive if you truly believe that. Trump truly believes he can dig up political dirt anywhere and use his executive power to do so.



No President, until now, has ever attacked the people who serve our country abroad in embassies and consulates around the world. His lack of respect for foreign service officers is disgusting. The nation's best talent was on display last week when dedicated and non-partisan foreign service officers testified before the committee. Their dedication and devotion to our country and its values was clear.

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I think you discount the entire premises that Trump was elected to counter and even root-out individuals. He was elected to fight the deep state. This entire argument that Trump is going against individuals that are running for 2020 make no sense seeing Trump was elected 3 years before they even ran against him. And he ran on the platform of being the most 'existential threat' to globalism ever known.

A_Thinker said:

How do you discern ... what is true and what is not ?

I get a half-dozen calls per day, plus e-mails, plus snail mails ... where people are clearly lying to me.

How do you decide ... who is lying and who us not ?

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For me personally, I pray. I try to kill my own beliefs and find truth. I do not necessarily like Trump as a person or how he handles every situation. In the end, my personal opinion doesn't matter. What is the truth of the situation? I look for truth. Try my absolute hardest to find fault with my own opinions. And when I wrong I tell myself to suck it up buttercup... because my emotion is not fact and it simply doesn't matter if I agree or give truth my permission to exist.

LostMarbels said:

I think you discount the entire premises that Trump was elected to counter and even root-out individuals. He was elected to fight the deep state. This entire argument that Trump is going against individuals that are running for 2020 make no sense seeing Trump was elected 3 years before they even ran against him. And he ran on the platform of being the most 'existential threat' to globalism ever known.

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So ... he brings in Cohen, Manafort, Flynn, Gates, Stone, Sondland, Papadopoulus, ... all who have been either been jailed ... or who are on their way to jail.

It's become clear that Trump is only in it for himself. He is using his supporters, ... promising what they want, ... while working to get what he wants ...

A_Thinker said:

It's become clear that Trump is only in it for himself. He is using his supporters, ... promising what they want, ... while working to get what he wants ...

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You act as if Trump will be allowed to betray his base and get away with it. Many are along for the ride thus far. Hell hath no fury should he turn his back on us. Those who support Trump want the corruption out and have had enough. Trump would be ousted. My opinion.

LostMarbels said:

You act as if Trump will be allowed to betray his base and get away with it. Many are along for the ride thus far. Hell hath no fury should he turn his back on us. Those who support Trump want the corruption out and have had enough. Trump would be ousted. My opinion.

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He has stated himself ... that he could shoot someone in broad daylight ... and not lose a supporter ... "