I plead guilty...... I like the idea of President Trump having a dual role in .....

DennisTate

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...the nation of Israel!

I plead guilty...... although I am not wealthy as soon as I saw this headline I began to
"conspire" various ways in which the following could perhaps be made a reality?

I began to use some variation of the phrase "Unified Theory Theory of Modern World Problems" back in 2010 so.......
I see this headline and within seconds a fire storm went off in my head that put this idea together with what I have been studying since 1972 when Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong got me researching Modern World Problems in order to attempt to apply this advice:

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Trump Hints at Becoming King of Israel
 
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Anguspure

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...the nation of Israel!

I plead guilty...... although I am not wealthy as soon as I saw this headline I began to
"conspire" various ways in which the following could perhaps be made a reality?

I began to use some variation of the phrase "Unified Theory Theory of Modern World Problems" back in 2010 so.......
I see this headline and within seconds a fire storm went off in my head that put this idea together with what I have been studying since 1972 when Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong got me researching Modern World Problems in order to attempt to apply this advice:

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Trump Hints at Becoming King of Israel
Media spin! He's talking about his popularity in his normal hyperbolic style, designed precisely to get the media spinning. Once again they swallow it hook line and sinker. Here fishy fishy.....
 
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Rick Otto

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Media spin! He's talking about his popularity in his normal hyperbolic style, designed precisely to get the media spinning. Once again they swallow it hook line and sinker. Here fishy fishy.....
IK,R but I love Tate's "good will toward men", don't you?
I just hate the thought of dragging anyone down the rabbit hole that includes everything from The Balfour Declaration* to The Star of Remphan posing as The Star of David.
*The Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British government in 1917 during the First World War announcing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population.
 
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Media spin! He's talking about his popularity in his normal hyperbolic style, designed precisely to get the media spinning. Once again they swallow it hook line and sinker. Here fishy fishy.....


But now in 2019 does not somebody who is campaigning for the office of President of the USA have to have some idea on how to spin the media?

Now I could be wrong but I got the impression that President Trump's rallies in many cities back in 2015 and 2016 were drawing crowds about 10X the size of the rallies for Bernier or Hillary?
 
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IK,R but I love Tate's "good will toward men", don't you?
I just hate the thought of dragging anyone down the rabbit hole that includes everything from The Balfour Declaration* to The Star of Remphan posing as The Star of David.
*The Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British government in 1917 during the First World War announcing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottoman region with a small minority Jewish population.

On the other hand........
at the time that he made these statements..........
President Truman had good reason to make this seemingly valid connection?!


Messiah son of Joseph and Cyrus

5. President http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel031803.asp
David Koppel: Religious Fright
In the latest issue of Books & Culture, a Christian book review monthly, Gerald McDermott details the role of Truman's Southern Baptist faith in his Israel policy. While mainline Protestants (with some important exceptions, such as Schlesinger's friend Reinhold Niebuhr) tended to disparage Zionist hopes for a Jewish state, religious conservatives (a group that included people like Truman who were not necessarily political conservatives) rejoiced in Zionist aspirations as the fulfillment of prophecy and the just restoration of the Jewish homeland which God had promised the Jews by sacred covenant. Only hours after the declaration of the State of Israel, President Truman overrode the objections of the State Department and the War Department, and made the United States the first nation to grant recognition to Israel. Truman used American clout to convince the U.N. to recognize Israel, too. When ceasefire lines were being drawn after the failed Arab war to exterminate the Jews, Truman insisted that Israel have the Negev, which more than doubled Israel's territory. Israelis believed that without Truman they would not have survived. As recounted in the Second Book of Chronicles, in the 6th century B.C. the Jewish kingdom was conquered by the Babylonian Empire, the Temple was destroyed, and the Jews were carried into Babylonian captivity. Half a century later, the Babylonian Empire was overthrown by the Persian Empire of Cyrus the Great. Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to their holy land:
In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing: "This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: 'The LORD , the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Anyone of his people among you may the LORD his God be with him, and let him go up.'" Paul Charles Merkley's book, The Politics of Christian Zionism: 1891-1948, describes a meeting in 1949, at the end of Truman's presidency, between Truman and the chief rabbi of Israel: The rabbi went on to assert: "God put you in your mother's womb so you would be the instrument to bring about Israel's rebirth after two thousand years." We are told by a witness that, "On hearing these words, Truman rose from his chair and, with great emotion, tears glistening in his eyes, he turned to the Chief Rabbi and asked him if his actions for the sake of the Jewish people were indeed to be interpreted thus and the hand of the Almighty was in the matter." A few months later, retired President Truman was honored at the Jewish Theological Seminary. One of Truman's friends introduced him to the professors as "the man who helped create the State of Israel."


Truman said, "What do you mean 'helped to create'? I am Cyrus. I am Cyrus."
(emphasis mine)

Just as President Harry Truman truly was like a "Cyrus" back in 1948.... so also....President Trump, in spite of his many flaws....... is certainly following in a similar spirit and theme of action during his three years in office!
 
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Anguspure

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But now in 2019 does not somebody who is campaigning for the office of President of the USA have to have some idea on how to spin the media?

Now I could be wrong but I got the impression that President Trump's rallies in many cities back in 2015 and 2016 were drawing crowds about 10X the size of the rallies for Bernier or Hillary?
My perception from afar is that he knows exactly how to spin them, and his popularity with the constituency of the US tells the story.
The credibility of politically driven media is at an all time low. They sound like the ranting ex-partner. Everybody has sympathies with them on the surface but when backs are turned they are they are the subject of ridicule.
 
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My perception from afar is that he knows exactly how to spin them, and his popularity with the constituency of the US tells the story.
The credibility of politically driven media is at an all time low. They sound like the ranting ex-partner. Everybody has sympathies with them on the surface but when backs are turned they are they are the subject of ridicule.

His situation though is different from that of Hillary because
she had friends in high places who practically control the media....

in order to perpetuate some pretty serious deceptions on all Americans....
and on all this earth. President Trump had a terrible disadvantage and had to
know how to draw attention..... in spite of his lack of real power like the most corrupt
had at their disposal.

The theories of Thomas Robert Malthus caught on with the wealthiest of the wealthy because he explained to them why they did NOT have to listen to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus regarding his admonitions to be good to the very poor.

Thomas Robert Malthus - Wikipedia
In his 1798 book An Essay on the Principle of Population, Malthus observed that an increase in a nation's food production improved the well-being of the populace, but the improvement was temporary because it led to population growth, which in turn restored the original per capita production level. In other words, humans had a propensity to utilize abundance for population growth rather than for maintaining a high standard of living, a view that has become known as the "Malthusian trap" or the "Malthusian spectre". Populations had a tendency to grow until the lower class suffered hardship, want and greater susceptibility to famine and disease, a view that is sometimes referred to as a Malthusian catastrophe. Malthus wrote in opposition to the popular view in 18th-century Europe that saw society as improving and in principle as perfectible.[3] He saw population growth as being inevitable whenever conditions improved, thereby precluding real progress towards a utopian society: "The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man".[4] As an Anglican cleric, Malthus saw this situation as divinely imposed to teach virtuous behaviour.[5] Malthus wrote:

That the increase of population is necessarily limited by the means of subsistence,
That population does invariably increase when the means of subsistence increase, and,
That the superior power of population is repressed by moral restraint, vice and misery.[6]

The situation here in Canada is more simple than that in the USA so it is easy to see how it was Malthusian or Neo-Malthusian thought that led to P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau being led to make a terrible error back in 1974.

BETTY'S EARLY EDITION: HOW PIERRE TRUDEAU TURNED US INTO DEBT SLAVES

HOW PIERRE TRUDEAU TURNED US INTO DEBT SLAVES
Click on the link above to watch Part 3 of my video series on the Canadian Banking System. Please also read accompanying text below.

Trudeaumania was just gearing up when I immigrated to Canada in late 1966. I, too, was impressed with Trudeau. He was intelligent, articulate, with liberal ideas. And as Prime Minister, Trudeau repatriated the Canadian Constitution and told the morals’ police to stay out of people’s bedrooms. But then…but then. As Anthony’s famous speech in Shakespeare’s play Julius Caesar reminds us… “the evil that men do live after them while the good is often interred with their bones. So let it be with Caesar.”

But somehow this worked backward for Trudeau. Many Canadians still think highly of Pierre Trudeau, but in 1974 he did one terrible thing that changed the lives, for present and future, of all Canadians, for the worse. Trudeau gave the leading operations of the Bank of Canada over to the private banks operating in Canada.

The Bank of Canada was first established by Prime Minister Richard Bennet in 1935 as a private central bank, but was then nationalized by William Lyon Mackenzie King in 1938. By nationalizing the bank, Mackenzie King meant for it to belong to the people so the Canadian government could borrow funds with little or no interest for capital expenditures. The mandate of the newly nationalized Bank of Canada was to act as the banker to the government and to manage the public debt. As Mackenzie King famously said: “Once a nation parts with the control of their currency and credit, it matters not who makes that nation’s laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile.”

So the Bank of Canada was nationalized in 1938 and the government could now borrow money with little or no interest. And it worked. The Canadian government built freeways, public transportation systems, subway line, airports, the St. Lawrence Seaway and funded a national health care system and the Canada Pension Plan. But then Trudeau, under the influence of the international financial group called Basel’s
Committee’s Recommendations (The Basel Committee on Banking Supervision) made the decision to halt the borrowing of money from the Bank of Canada, and instead, chose to borrow from the private banks who instead of lending to the government at no interest, or low interest, introduced higher interest rates along with compound interest.

All banks know very well the magic of compound interest. And Pierre Trudeau must have known that the mounting compounded national debt would lead to Canadians eventually owing a dollar fifty for every dollar of their disposable incomes. After all, he studied economics at the London School of Economics. Surely the professors there knew about compound interest.

So Pierre Trudeau, instead of feeling blessed that Canada, unlike the US, had a nationalized central bank, signed our bank away to the private banks. Couldn’t Trudeau, such an educated man, surmise that citizens in a few years would be struggling to make car payments and meet rent and mortgages and student loans and to buy healthy food while last year’s profits for the big five (that’s Royal Bank, TD Bank, Scotiabank, Bank of Montreal and CIBC amounted to $31.7 billion?) If he did, he didn’t care. But it doesn’t have to be this way. It really doesn’t. Our Bank of
Canada is still there. Next time." (Betty Krawczyk)
 
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2018 Prophetic Word: Cancer, Baby Boomers, Trump, and the Nations

PART 2- POLITICS AND THE WORLD

Donald Trump

God has visited me on numerous occasions in the last several weeks (January 2018) concerning Donald Trump and He continues to remind me of the prophecy I received concerning him in July of 2015 that was also published by Charisma Magazine and went viral around the world. The prophecy God spoke to me was this,

“Trump shall become My trumpet to the American people, for he possesses qualities that are even hard to find in My people these days. Trump does not fear man nor will he allow deception and lies to go unnoticed. I am going to use him to expose darkness and perversion in America like never before, but you must understand that he is like a bull in a china closet. Many will want to throw him away because he will disturb their sense of peace and tranquility, but you must listen through the bantering to discover the truth that I will speak through him. I will use the wealth that I have given him to expose and launch investigations searching for the truth. Just as I raised up Cyrus to fulfill My purposes and plans, so have I raised up Trump to fulfill my purposes and plans prior to the 2016 election. You must listen to the trumpet very closely for he will sound the alarm and many will be blessed because of his compassion and mercy. Though many see the outward pride and arrogance, I have given him the tender heart of a father that wants to lend a helping hand to the poor and the needy, to the foreigner and the stranger.”

The days and months following the release of this prophetic word in July of 2015 were full of bitter accusation and attack from thousands across the body of Christ. To this day, I still stand by this prophecy I received and gave. I truly believe God has and is using Trump as a type of trumpet in America, but he is like a bull in a china shop and his words must be sifted through in order to hear the truth He is speaking at times.

Then two days before Donald Trump was elected President of the United States, I received and published another prophetic dream in which a baby with the face of Donald Trump was brought to a church and given to an older woman who was a nursery worker at a church. The woman began to rock baby Donald and sing over him. This is what she sang, “Donald, you have a crooked way in you, but through the intercession of the Church, God is going to change you.” She sang this tune over Donald several times and then I woke up.

Having had a significant amount of time to pray through this dream, I have become convinced by the Spirit of God that there is a tremendous amount of weight and responsibility that now rests upon the Church as Donald Trump has been elected President. Per the dream, Donald has clearly been given by God as a gift to the Church and she must engage in intercession in order to drive out the crooked way that is inside of him. Donald Trump is not the savior of America, and the Church must not go back to business as usual now that he has been elected. In prayer, I heard the Spirit of God say, “The presidency of Donald Trump will be defined by one thing: his character. You must know that his character can be greatly shaped and forged through the faithful intercession and prayers of the Church.”

Pondering and praying through Trump’s presidency in 2018, I received a vision of his right hand that began to turn into an IRON FIST. God spoke to me and said, “Trump’s grip is going to tighten while the liberal agenda loses its grip.” I saw the liberal agenda in America gasping for breath as the Trump agenda (the iron fist) squeezes and suffocates its opponents. I saw desperation, wild accusation, and startling trepidation descend upon Washington. Then I began to see something that both surprised me and caused me to pause. The iron fist of Donald Trump was too much for the American people to bear. The pressure and strength of his grip while at first was reassuring, in the end, it brought great unnecessary destruction. I felt an alarm go off deep within my spirit. God said, “I have raised Donald Trump up for four years as a battering ram and trumpet in this nation, but without a serious sanctification and softening of his heart and words, there will be great trouble and danger that will mark his run for a second term. Even those who were once for him, will see the error of his ways and begin to cry out for his soul. Do not be deceived by the wealth and change that Donald has and will bring to America, for I am after far more than the gifts I have irrevocably given him, I must have his heart so that I can order His steps.”

The following night after receiving this word, I had a prophetic dream where I saw Donald Trump crawling around on the White House lawn eating grass and acting like an animal. Immediately I cried out to the Lord in the dream and said, God, shall Donald Trump become like Nebuchadnezzar? Shall he become so consumed with his success that he begins to credit his accomplishments to his own strength and power? Will you remove sovereignty from his life?”

God spoke to me and said, “Donald Trump is in great danger of becoming like Nebuchadnezzar in the years ahead. He will have great success, but the Church must pray for humility and the Daniel Company to arise. Just like Nebuchadnezzar, if Donald breaks away from his sins by doing righteously and showing mercy to the poor, I will prolong his prosperity.” (Dan 4:27)
 
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Anguspure

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His situation though is different from that of Hillary because
she had friends in high places who practically control the media....

in order to perpetuate some pretty serious deceptions on all Americans....
and on all this earth. President Trump had a terrible disadvantage and had to
know how to draw attention..... in spite of his lack of real power like the most corrupt
had at their disposal.

The theories of Thomas Robert Malthus caught on with the wealthiest of the wealthy because he explained to them why they did NOT have to listen to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus regarding his admonitions to be good to the very poor.

Thomas Robert Malthus - Wikipedia


The situation here in Canada is more simple than that in the USA so it is easy to see how it was Malthusian or Neo-Malthusian thought that led to P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau being led to make a terrible error back in 1974.
That is interesting, but I wonder at the limit of this principle. Reproduction rates among wealthy westerners have plummeted to historically low and unprecedented levels. Whereas the areas of the world where population is booming are also places of development but have not yet arrived, so to speak.
It seems that the principle applies to a first generation but the next generation who inherit the riches of their parents (one way or another), either do not wish to share or have time to think about things and so consider the hazards of over population.

In NZ the late Barry Smith was preaching on this topic and warning New Zealanders during the mid 80's. Fractionalised reserve banking is nothing short of outright fraud only because the law of the land permits bankers to act in that way. But you just try making a practice of it yourself! A previous acquaintance of mine did precisely that, made a million or so in a very short time, was an amazing lifestyle, until somebody pinged him.
 
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Rick Otto

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That is interesting, but I wonder at the limit of this principle. Reproduction rates among wealthy westerners have plummeted to historically low and unprecedented levels. Whereas the areas of the world where population is booming are also places of development but have not yet arrived, so to speak.
It seems that the principle applies to a first generation but the next generation who inherit the riches of their parents (one way or another), either do not wish to share or have time to think about things and so consider the hazards of over population.


In NZ the late Barry Smith was preaching on this topic and warning New Zealanders during the mid 80's. Fractionalised reserve banking is nothing short of outright fraud only because the law of the land permits bankers to act in that way. But you just try making a practice of it yourself! A previous acquaintance of mine did precisely that, made a million or so in a very short time, was an amazing lifestyle, until somebody pinged him.
Here's your go to guy for how the corporate fascist contracting fraud works:
Stop The Pirates
He shows how the birth certificates hypothecated us and are bought and sold to make money off us.
Since we are slaves, all our expenses must be paid by our owners. He shows us why we need to file "Secured Creditor" status so we don't enter any courtroom as a "Debtor" (guilty).
The "A4V" process is how to charge off expenses to the trust fund created by your birth certificate.
This is being done with varying amounts of success. You can find testimonials on youtube.

Jurisdiction is being lawlessly yet legally acquired by using "adhesion contracts" that aid and abet the falsification of informed consent, the basis of legal contracting (along with a lack of coercion).

Interesting stuff. Worth a peek.
 
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Brother... first of all, "Breaking Israel News" is the Week World News, the National Inquirer, of Israel. It isn't taken seriously by most Jews. It isn't satire... but it is rarely based in reality. And I know what I am talking about... I have had my own letter to the Jews posted in this online publication with a very sweet response by the Rabbi... in fact, he is the same author of this article you link above. HERE is my letter and his response.

Second, and most important... if any man becomes king of Israel, he is the anti-Christ. Israel as a nation broke into 2 nations (I am rounding off) 2900 years ago. Two Kingdoms then, not one. Israel to the north and Judah to the south. 2700 years ago, Israel was taken captive into Assyria and when they didn't repent... were scattered from there into the nations and they became known as "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Judah went into Babylon around 2580 years ago. We see them come home to the land from Persia (which defeated Babylon during Judah's captivity) and we have a GREAT record of their life since that captivity... we know them today as the Jewish people. But the Jewish people AND the Northern Kingdom have NOT TO DATE come back together. We know this because in Hosea we see that when this does happen, they will appoint for themselves a king over them. This will be Yeshua, He is the ONLY ONE who will reign over a UNITED (never again to be divided) Israel. Anyone else who takes a throne before then, will be taking it over only one of the two Houses of Israel and will be a false king.

All that, and Trump doesn't want to be king over Israel... Trump wants a legacy here in a place so bent on making sure he can't do anything good for anyone.
 
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Brother... first of all, "Breaking Israel News" is the Week World News, the National Inquirer, of Israel. It isn't taken seriously by most Jews. It isn't satire... but it is rarely based in reality. And I know what I am talking about... I have had my own letter to the Jews posted in this online publication with a very sweet response by the Rabbi... in fact, he is the same author of this article you link above. HERE is my letter and his response.

Second, and most important... if any man becomes king of Israel, he is the anti-Christ. Israel as a nation broke into 2 nations (I am rounding off) 2900 years ago. Two Kingdoms then, not one. Israel to the north and Judah to the south. 2700 years ago, Israel was taken captive into Assyria and when they didn't repent... were scattered from there into the nations and they became known as "the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Judah went into Babylon around 2580 years ago. We see them come home to the land from Persia (which defeated Babylon during Judah's captivity) and we have a GREAT record of their life since that captivity... we know them today as the Jewish people. But the Jewish people AND the Northern Kingdom have NOT TO DATE come back together. We know this because in Hosea we see that when this does happen, they will appoint for themselves a king over them. This will be Yeshua, He is the ONLY ONE who will reign over a UNITED (never again to be divided) Israel. Anyone else who takes a throne before then, will be taking it over only one of the two Houses of Israel and will be a false king.

All that, and Trump doesn't want to be king over Israel... Trump wants a legacy here in a place so bent on making sure he can't do anything good for anyone.

Thank you for the link to your letter to Rabbi Adam Berkowitz.

A Yom Kippur Repentance From a Devout Non-Jew and My Jewish Response

We Christians tend to misunderstand what Jews mean by the term "Moshiach" because to a devout Jew it simply means anointed king and Israel has had many anointed Kings that are listed in scripture.

Judaism predicts two more human kings who will set the stage for the return of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus because it sure looks like there needs to be a Jerusalem Third Temple and - or at least the central part of an Ezekiel temple complex in existence IF.... the second coming cannot happen until the Jews offer sacrifices for three and a half years.......then they are stopped by the anti-Christ......... then about three and a half years later Messiah Yeshua - Jesus returns and fulfills the astonishing events of Zechariah 14

I've been wondering about this question for some years now?

Is a Jerusalem Third Temple needed before Zechariah 14 can happen?

Jews are expecting a non-Jew similar to ancient King Cyrus to play a huge role in assisting them to get their Jerusalem Third Temple or the Ezekiel Templex complex built.

Appendix II

The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).4
 
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We Christians tend to misunderstand what Jews mean by the term "Moshiach" because to a devout Jew it simply means anointed king and Israel has had many anointed Kings that are listed in scripture.
If the word mashiach had melech attached to it, I would see your point, But Jews do not see the word mashiach as "king" it simply means anointed. I will share more on this in a second.

Judaism predicts two more human kings who will set the stage for the return of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus because it sure looks like there needs to be a Jerusalem Third Temple and - or at least the central part of an Ezekiel temple complex in existence IF.... the second coming cannot happen until the Jews offer sacrifices for three and a half years.......then they are stopped by the anti-Christ......... then about three and a half years later Messiah Yeshua - Jesus returns and fulfills the astonishing events of Zechariah 14
You are partly correct here. However, before I share my thoughts... understand something, two religions today are based on Jesus. Those two are Christianity and Judaism. One believes him to be messiah, the other does not and goes to great lengths to distance themselves from him. In fact, they will (and have) given new meaning to OT verses that we use to prove Yeshua is messiah, for reasons I won't get into here. But as an example... just go read a Christian commentary on Isaiah 53 or look how the KJV or the NKJV (and others) as compared to the Hebrew translate Isaiah 9:6. Good grief, the ArtScroll Tanach so rearranges the words there is no way a Christian can use it to prove Yeshua exists as the reference there. And that was done with intention.

I am saying that not to demean the Jewish people, I am not... I have many Jewish friends. I am simply telling you that as a Christian you are good to look into their understanding but use their sources with the understanding that they are not looking to support Yeshua in ANY way. Not now anyway. :)

You added this in your post:

"The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth)."

It is true that the ancient Jewish sages taught about two messiahs. Messiah ben Joseph the suffering servant (Isaiah 53) and Messiah ben David the Conquering King. The problem with your conclusions here, brother... is that you are treating these two as if they are two... they are not. Mashiach ben Yosef was the first coming of Yeshua... he came as the suffering servant giving his life for us. He will return as Machiach ben David and will put all the enemies of Israel down and victoriously usher in the millennial kingdom as our King. Yeshua began to identify the "exiles" 2000 years ago when he came to call the lost sheep out of the nations where they had been scattered. His sheep hear his voice... did you hear it? Did you come in faith to Him when you heard it? That work over the last 2000 years has identified who the two sticks, two houses, two kingdoms are... and they will be regathered just prior to His return as He returns for one single unblemished bride.

Our mission is to teach the instructions of God to those that seek to learn them. We get distracted from that work when we speculate as to what prophetic event happens next. Prophecy and tomorrow will take care of itself... what can we do TODAY to reflect Christ's character to the world around us?
 
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DennisTate

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If the word mashiach had melech attached to it, I would see your point, But Jews do not see the word mashiach as "king" it simply means anointed. I will share more on this in a second.

You are partly correct here. However, before I share my thoughts... understand something, two religions today are based on Jesus. Those two are Christianity and Judaism. One believes him to be messiah, the other does not and goes to great lengths to distance themselves from him. In fact, they will (and have) given new meaning to OT verses that we use to prove Yeshua is messiah, for reasons I won't get into here. But as an example... just go read a Christian commentary on Isaiah 53 or look how the KJV or the NKJV (and others) as compared to the Hebrew translate Isaiah 9:6. Good grief, the ArtScroll Tanach so rearranges the words there is no way a Christian can use it to prove Yeshua exists as the reference there. And that was done with intention.

I am saying that not to demean the Jewish people, I am not... I have many Jewish friends. I am simply telling you that as a Christian you are good to look into their understanding but use their sources with the understanding that they are not looking to support Yeshua in ANY way. Not now anyway. :)

You added this in your post:

"The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth)."

It is true that the ancient Jewish sages taught about two messiahs. Messiah ben Joseph the suffering servant (Isaiah 53) and Messiah ben David the Conquering King. The problem with your conclusions here, brother... is that you are treating these two as if they are two... they are not. Mashiach ben Yosef was the first coming of Yeshua... he came as the suffering servant giving his life for us. He will return as Machiach ben David and will put all the enemies of Israel down and victoriously usher in the millennial kingdom as our King. Yeshua began to identify the "exiles" 2000 years ago when he came to call the lost sheep out of the nations where they had been scattered. His sheep hear his voice... did you hear it? Did you come in faith to Him when you heard it? That work over the last 2000 years has identified who the two sticks, two houses, two kingdoms are... and they will be regathered just prior to His return as He returns for one single unblemished bride.

Our mission is to teach the instructions of God to those that seek to learn them. We get distracted from that work when we speculate as to what prophetic event happens next. Prophecy and tomorrow will take care of itself... what can we do TODAY to reflect Christ's character to the world around us?

Or... could it be that the final Elijah is truly anointed in such a powerful way that his calling in life is Messianic / anointed.......
and could Elijah fulfill the role of Moshiach ben Ephrayim and give to the Jewish people their
Bet Hamikdash
as a part of his role in the restoration of the Tribes of Israel???

Douay-Rheims Bible, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) Chapter 48

Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. [7] Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. [8] Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.
 
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DennisTate

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and... could the final Elijah stir up the spirit of a Christian political Cyrus.......
and you know of whom I am writing that is for sure?

Messiah son of Joseph
Since the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 the USA has often helped protect the State of Israel from destruction. The USA has not however really helped Israel expand her borders. On the contrary the USA has often forced Israel to give up territories it had liberated and to constrict her borders, but maybe that will change. Maybe the USA and Britain will help Israel expand her borders in the future as the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH is supposed to do. Ingathers the Exiles “Kol HaTor” says [2.40] “His [i.e. Joseph’s] bow abode in strength” (Genesis 49;24). This should be an important principle for us. We have to stand obstinately strong in the holy work of gathering in the exiles which is the task of the first redeemer [i.e. of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH]. Purifies the Land of Israel “Kol HaTor” says [2.41] “And Joseph was governor over the land” (Genesis 42;6). This means he will overcome all the forces of impurity. This is one of the great tasks of the First Redeemer [of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH]: to extirpate the spirit of impurity from the country by means of settling the Holy Land. When the Holy Land is not settled [with Israelites] a spirit of impurity settles over it. [When the Holy Land is settled with Israelites the Land becomes pure]. Joshua ben Nun Was a Forerunner “Kol HaTor” says [2.44]

The First Redeemer [MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH] fights against Amalek with total warfare…[he fights against the forces of anti-Semitism]. This was the task of Joshua ben Nun who was [a forerunner and ancestor of] the Messiah Son of Joseph. Aroused by Elijah “Kol HaTor” says [2.71] “Behold I will send you my prophet Elijah…and he will return the hearts of the fathers to their sons” (Malachi 4). One of the tasks of Elijah is to arouse the spirit of the MESSIAH SON OF JOSEPH. Comment:

[Malachi 4:5] BEHOLD, I WILL SEND YOU ELIJAH THE PROPHET BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: [Malachi 4:6] AND HE SHALL TURN THE HEART OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, AND THE HEART OF THE CHILDREN TO THEIR FATHERS, LEST I COME AND SMITE THE EARTH WITH A CURSE.
 
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If the word mashiach had melech attached to it, I would see your point, But Jews do not see the word mashiach as "king" it simply means anointed. I will share more on this in a second.

You are partly correct here. However, before I share my thoughts... understand something, two religions today are based on Jesus. Those two are Christianity and Judaism. One believes him to be messiah, the other does not and goes to great lengths to distance themselves from him. In fact, they will (and have) given new meaning to OT verses that we use to prove Yeshua is messiah, for reasons I won't get into here. But as an example... just go read a Christian commentary on Isaiah 53 or look how the KJV or the NKJV (and others) as compared to the Hebrew translate Isaiah 9:6. Good grief, the ArtScroll Tanach so rearranges the words there is no way a Christian can use it to prove Yeshua exists as the reference there. And that was done with intention.

I am saying that not to demean the Jewish people, I am not... I have many Jewish friends. I am simply telling you that as a Christian you are good to look into their understanding but use their sources with the understanding that they are not looking to support Yeshua in ANY way. Not now anyway. :)

You added this in your post:

"The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth)."

It is true that the ancient Jewish sages taught about two messiahs. Messiah ben Joseph the suffering servant (Isaiah 53) and Messiah ben David the Conquering King. The problem with your conclusions here, brother... is that you are treating these two as if they are two... they are not. Mashiach ben Yosef was the first coming of Yeshua... he came as the suffering servant giving his life for us. He will return as Machiach ben David and will put all the enemies of Israel down and victoriously usher in the millennial kingdom as our King. Yeshua began to identify the "exiles" 2000 years ago when he came to call the lost sheep out of the nations where they had been scattered. His sheep hear his voice... did you hear it? Did you come in faith to Him when you heard it? That work over the last 2000 years has identified who the two sticks, two houses, two kingdoms are... and they will be regathered just prior to His return as He returns for one single unblemished bride.

Our mission is to teach the instructions of God to those that seek to learn them. We get distracted from that work when we speculate as to what prophetic event happens next. Prophecy and tomorrow will take care of itself... what can we do TODAY to reflect Christ's character to the world around us?
Thank you!
Very informative.
Can you share anything about The Balfour Declaration or the choice of symbol for Israel's flag?
 
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Or... could it be that the final Elijah is truly anointed in such a powerful way that his calling in life is Messianic / anointed.......
and could Elijah fulfill the role of Moshiach ben Ephrayim and give to the Jewish people their
Bet Hamikdash
as a part of his role in the restoration of the Tribes of Israel???

Douay-Rheims Bible, Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) Chapter 48
I am not saying I am correct and really that is my point. You don't know if you are correct... I may or may not be, we might both be wrong. So we spend this time on predictions about the end times when people who need our help TODAY are ignored in favor of something we have no control over???

As for your point above... the ancient sages developed a two messiah teaching based on these passages:

Mashiach ben Yosef comes from the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 (which we know is Yeshua) but also from this passage (and others)...

Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. (10) I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; The battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion shall be 'from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.

Mashiach ben David comes from the picture here:

Zechariah 14:2-4 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

This is the first and second coming of the same person spoken of throughout the NT. I don't understand your need to go beyond this and spend so much time talking about who might be best to play a certain role and just allow God Himself to raise up whomever He desires for whatever role is necessary.

Remember, Yeshua said that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah.... are we still looking for Elijah because the Jewish people do not accept the NT narrative?

Again, and lastly Dennis... we have one go at this. God has given you 10 talents. Are you going to bury them in the sand (spend all your time working on things you have no control over) or do you use them to His glory? People need help in many ways TODAY my brother... why then do we sit here talking about a tomorrow that we'll be fine in as long as we do what we are supposed to do today?

Blessings.
Ken
 
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Thank you!
Very informative.
Can you share anything about The Balfour Declaration or the choice of symbol for Israel's flag?
Not particularly but I can add this....

Israel has no constitution today, but they did have a declaration of independence. In it, we read this:

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

My understanding according to a mentor who had a friend in Israel at the time within the government, was that they were going to name it Judea. But, because they knew that there were exiles (and not all Jewish) that belonged to Israel, they decided at the last minute to name the country Israel in order to encompass all of those who belong to God, not just the Jews. If you go back to my last post, the one you commented on, you'll see the differentiation I am speaking of in terms of people. The Northern Kingdom ended up in the nations and have no returned to date... the Southern Kingdom ended up in Babylon but came home and we know them as the Jewish people.
 
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I am not saying I am correct and really that is my point. You don't know if you are correct... I may or may not be, we might both be wrong. So we spend this time on predictions about the end times when people who need our help TODAY are ignored in favor of something we have no control over???

As for your point above... the ancient sages developed a two messiah teaching based on these passages:

Mashiach ben Yosef comes from the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 (which we know is Yeshua) but also from this passage (and others)...

Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. (10) I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; The battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion shall be 'from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.

Mashiach ben David comes from the picture here:

Zechariah 14:2-4 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

This is the first and second coming of the same person spoken of throughout the NT. I don't understand your need to go beyond this and spend so much time talking about who might be best to play a certain role and just allow God Himself to raise up whomever He desires for whatever role is necessary.

Remember, Yeshua said that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah.... are we still looking for Elijah because the Jewish people do not accept the NT narrative?

Again, and lastly Dennis... we have one go at this. God has given you 10 talents. Are you going to bury them in the sand (spend all your time working on things you have no control over) or do you use them to His glory? People need help in many ways TODAY my brother... why then do we sit here talking about a tomorrow that we'll be fine in as long as we do what we are supposed to do today?

Blessings.
Ken
Ken, it's never a waste of time to stay informed on the devices of the enemy, and assuredly not the only thing spent time on. Nor is it intended or imagined to NOT allow God Himself to raise up whomever He desires. It's actually an attempt to understand why He would choose whomever along with how & why He does it. It's how we inform & educate each other instead of remaing isolated and uninformed. The tragedy is that the only safe place to do it is in the context of "hobbies & entertainment".
We do the best we can with what God gives us brother.
 
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