Democrats don't want origins of Ukraine probe revealed, just as they didn't want Russia probe known

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

FreeinChrist said:
So you expect the Democrats to break the law about whistleblowers?

This is just a right wing talking point designed to distract from the president's own summary of a call to the Ukraine president. He was caught holding back money that Congress approved in a budget to get a political investigation on Biden to help himself (Trump) politically and personally.

Presidents hold back money all the time. Holding back money is not a crime.

Nor could the star witnesses even name a crime that might have been committed.

GodLovesCats · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Incorrect.

He witnessed NOTHING.

If there were no witnesses, there would lbe no investigation. Plain and simple.

Who is "he" anyway? At least 10 people were subpoenaed to testify, both male and female.

Yarddog · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Presidents hold back money all the time. Holding back money is not a crime.

That depends on what one is holding back the money to do. In this case, Trump was holding back the money for personal gain. That is a crime in this case.

NightHawkeye said:
Nor could the star witnesses even name a crime that might have been committed.

Who do you consider the "star witness" at this point?

RocksInMyHead · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Presidents hold back money all the time.

They do? Please cite sources. What reasons have been provided in the past?

Holding back money is not a crime.

I believe that would depend on the circumstances.

Nor could the star witnesses even name a crime that might have been committed.

It is not the witnesses' place to speculate about possible crimes. This has been pointed out to you many times now.

iluvatar5150 · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
From the "Don't you dare look over there", files:
Democrats don't want public to know origins of Ukraine probe like they didn't want public to know origins of Russia probe

Why are House Democrats stonewalling questions about the identity of the Trump-Ukraine whistleblower?

Because they're not morally bankrupt partisans willing to throw a whistleblower under the bus the way that the House Republicans are?

So ... How did one man's impression turn into an impeachment probe?

Somebody investigated the impression and found that it had merit.

You ought to be ashamed for taking on this argument. It's disgusting.

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

iluvatar5150 said:
Because they're not morally bankrupt partisans ...

Perhaps we should put that to the test. It's possible that a majority of Trump supporters would argue they are.

... just as you argue that about the GOP.

iluvatar5150 said:
You ought to be ashamed for taking on this argument. It's disgusting.

Your moral certitude is noted.

Personally, I've suspected for some time that the "morally bankrupt partisans", as you call them, are within your preferred party. We'll see soon enough though which side has FACTS in its favor ... and which side can convict the other.

iluvatar5150 · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Perhaps we should put that to the test. It's possible that a majority of Trump supporters would argue they are.

Given the frequency with which I've witnessed Trump supporters buy into conspiracy theories, push easily-debunked falsehoods, gaslight and just flat out lie to me, I don't put much stock in what they argue these days.

Personally, I've suspected for some time that the "morally bankrupt partisans", as you call them, are within your preferred party. We'll see soon enough though which side has FACTS in its favor ... and which side can convict the other.

I don't have a lot of love for the democratic party, either, but it's been a long time since I've seen them attack accusers and whistleblowers en masse the way Republicans have been lately. That is the behavior I find disgusting and for which I think you ought to be ashamed of supporting.

GodLovesCats · Nov 18, 2019

But you identify yourself as a Democrat.

FreeinChrist · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Presidents hold back money all the time. Holding back money is not a crime.

Nor could the star witnesses even name a crime that might have been committed.

There are laws about holding back money as in delaying it. He could only delay it 45 days and it has to be for good reason. Holding back military aide to a country in a war with Russia for a personal political
favor' is NOT a good reason.

The star witnesses showed their non-partisanship and did not step out side their lane. Trump showed the crime in the summary of the transcript he released.

GodLovesCats · Nov 18, 2019

FreeinChrist said:
There are laws about holding back money as in delaying it. He could only delay it 45 days and it has to be for good reason. Holding back military aid to a country in a war with Russia for a personal political favor is NOT a good reason.

The star witnesses showed their non-partisanship and did not step outside their lanes. Trump showed the crime in the summary of the transcript he released.

Is it a stretch to compare the six-day delay to Andrew Johnson disobeying a new trade law that he signed the same year? Look at how bad that went for him: 11 articles of impeachment were passed and only one vote kept him in office.

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

FreeinChrist said:
Trump showed the crime in the summary of the transcript he released.

Did you read the transcript? I did.

GodLovesCats · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Did you read the transcript? I did.

So you obviously saw where ther quid pro quo is and don't need to ask.

FreeinChrist · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Did you read the transcript? I did.

Yes

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

FreeinChrist said:
Yes

Then please be so kind as to provide the excerpts from the transcript which indicate the crime you mentioned earlier. Thanks in advance.

FreeinChrist · Nov 18, 2019

I think you are ignoring what you don't want to be true.

'I would like you to do us a favor': The 30 minute phone call that changed Trump's presidency

By the time staffers in the Situation Room got the president of Ukraine on the phone at 9:03 a.m., Trump had just finished firing off tweets claiming complete vindication from former special counsel Robert Mueller’s congressional testimony the day before about the Russia investigation. On the call, Trump was first to speak. He showered the 41-year-old Ukrainian, a novice politician and former comedian, with praise following his party’s victory in parliamentary elections. Zelenskiy chatted about how he wanted to “drain the swamp” in Kyiv and how he wished the European Union would provide more financial support. He told Trump that Ukraine was ready to buy more Javelin anti-tank missiles from the United States.

The next 10 words that came out of Trump’s mouth — “I would like you to do us a favor, though” — are what triggered the House impeachment inquiry that has imperiled his presidency.

Trump asked Zelenskiy to work with Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to look into Biden and his son, who served on the board of a Ukrainian gas company.

I am anxious to hear what Col. Vindman and Williams say tomorrow.

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

FreeinChrist said:
I think you are ignoring what you don't want to be true.

Not at all. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

There is nothing illegal about asking for a favor. Presidents make requests all the time.

GodLovesCats · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Not at all. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

There is nothing illegal about asking for a favor. Presidents make requests all the time.

Everything is illegal about asking the president of another country to investigate an American citizen's actions there before he can get any security aid in a war against Russia. There are only mountains here, no molehills.

FreeinChrist · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
Not at all. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

There is nothing illegal about asking for a favor. Presidents make requests all the time.

There is everything illegal about withholding aid and that congress passed in a budget in return for a personal political favor. Ukraine is at war with Russia and really needed the aid that congress passed.

It is called bribery and is impeachable.

essentialsaltes · Nov 18, 2019

NightHawkeye said:
There is nothing illegal about asking for a favor. Presidents make requests all the time.

Favors and requests for the benefit of We the People. It is an abuse of office to ask for personal favors in exchange for military aid paid for by We the People.

NightHawkeye · Nov 18, 2019

essentialsaltes said:
Favors and requests for the benefit of We the People. It is an abuse of office to ask for personal favors in exchange for military aid paid for by We the People.

Meh, Hunter Biden was clearly getting paid off in exchange for political favors from his daddy ... to the tune of a billion dollars in aid. Trump had every right to ask for that to be investigated.

It's not even arguable otherwise. Joe Biden was caught on tape demanding a QUID PRO QUO.

Democrats don't want origins of Ukraine probe revealed, just as they didn't want Russia probe known

Work-in-progress

Well-Known Member

Senior Contributor

God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

Well-Known Member

Work-in-progress

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CF Advisory team

Well-Known Member

Work-in-progress

Well-Known Member

CF Advisory team

Work-in-progress

CF Advisory team

Work-in-progress

Well-Known Member

CF Advisory team

Stranger in a Strange Land

Work-in-progress

Similar threads