Cardinal Pell's appeal has been dismissed.

Paidiske said:

I believe that God's forgiveness can reach even this, yes.

I think that should be irrelevant to secular justice, though.

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What's the reason that many Christian's become obsessed with worldly news, and gossip?

Bob Crowley said:

I also note the other choirboy, who became a heroin addict and died in 2014, aged 30, never spoke to his parents about being abused. Despite this, his father believes he became a heroin addict due to the hypothetical abuse.

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According to the ABC: "That former choirboy never mentioned the incident and denied being sexually abused when he was asked point blank by his mother several years after the abuse occurred, the court was told."

Paidiske said:

Well, there are probably as many specific reasons as there are people. In general I would say our obsessions reflect our fears.

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Still, that doesn't alow God's people slandering whomever they like. Do you think the Judge who examined the evidence against George Pell, and sentenced him is now online gossiping about it? But even if that judge did, wouldn't it be based on all the available evidence. Does the public have all available evidence? Enough to be greater than the judge who was there?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I hope Pell continues to fight until he is found innocent.

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Bob Crowley said:

Not only that - Pell would have had to have gone from the psychological state of mind of having just celebrated mass in the Cathedral, presenting the body and blood of Christ with hundreds of parishoners present, and then sought out a five to six minute "window of opportunity" for a brief sexual encounter, with a very high risk of discovery as other moved stuff around, while still wearing the heavy robes of office.

You might believe it - I don't. Not for a minute.

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You are assuming that he is innocent. The fact that there is much going on and the guy is wearing heavy robes does not mean he didn't do it! Having been the victim of molestation by an old Catholic man---in his home, with his wife and daughters in the house---I can tell you that it does not take a hidden room and dark corners with no one around for this to happen! When one of the daughters found me crying in the bathroom I told her what happened---she ran and got her mother---the daughters and the mother then shut me up in a small closet without light. This was in Costa Rica and the temperature in there was stifling and there were cockroaches allover the place and I was screaming my head off for hours until I finally just either passed out or fell asleep. When I woke up I was told if I said anything I would go right back into that closet. Needless to say---I never mentioned it to anyone. I don't know which was worse, being raped at 5 or being shut up in the closet. And no, this did not cause me to hate Catholics. When I was finally brought home to my father in the states---he took up where the old man had left off.
I can tell you this---it can happen in less than 5 minutes---in can happen where there are people around, it can happen right after, and during prayers, it can happen in the middle of dinner with a bunch of people present just a hand under the dress--if you scream, it's just that the poor girl bit her tongue or some such thing as he gently hugs you and pats you on the back and then wipes away the tears with the same fingers he used to poke you with---You have no idea how cunning these people are, nor how totally callused and without conscience.
Not up to me to say whether he is guilty or not---just that the "window of opportunity" and the circumstances, do not have to be very long, nor without anyone around nor that it can't possibly happen right after the man has just said mass! It can and does.

NeverL0ved said:

Still, that doesn't alow God's people slandering whomever they like. Do you think the Judge who examined the evidence against George Pell, and sentenced him is now online gossiping about it? But even if that judge did, wouldn't it be based on all the available evidence. Does the public have all available evidence? Enough to be greater than the judge who was there?

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A jury decides the verdict, not a judge. The jury in the first trial could not reach a decision.

Three justices upheld the jury verdict on appeal in a 2-1 decision.

We await the outcome of the High Court where the case will be considered by probably 7 justices.

This is the legal system in Australia and all citizens must be entitled to the full processes of the law.

Quite simply the case is a matter of justice ... no matter how much it is abused by activists to demean those who support justice for all.

If you regard such a discussion as gossip, why are you reading this thread?

NeverL0ved said:

Do you think that God's forgiveness extends out for all type's of evil that humans do? What evil has anyone done on this earth that your God can not forgive?

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It requires repentance first.

For that to happen, one or the other would have to publicly admit guilt.

NeverL0ved said:

Do you think that God's forgiveness extends out for all type's of evil that humans do? What evil has anyone done on this earth that your God can not forgive?

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There were two criminals on the cross alongside Jesus, only one was promised paradise. Matthew 7:21-23

Norbert L said:

There were two criminals on the cross alongside Jesus, only one was promised paradise. Matthew 7:21-23

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I just want people to know that these people are very cagey. If God did not know their wicked heart, they'd look Him in the face and lie!! They can be very charming to others. They don't get to do what they do by being obviously wicked and lecherous. My father knew his bible backwards and forwards--so does Satan--I've seen him take a bible from the JW's and with their own bible show them where they are wrong---his home was backlisted for over 35 years (till he died)from the JWs because they would come back so confused and their teachers couldn't answer their questions. He could do that with the Mormons---neither of them came around after the 1st 2 times! He had trained as a minister---he wanted to wear a white suite cause he thought he looked good in one! He killed 2 men and got away with it! Different country different time, matchete and whip---weapons of choice back in his day in Honduras. There were many people he charmed who wouldn't believe what he has done--he was such a nice guy -- to those he wanted to fool.

Bob Crowley said:

While I'm a bit sick of this thread, this article shows that it also boils down to who does the jury believe - the Archbishop's minder or the plainant. According to Mr. Portelli in this article, the then Archbishop was standing on the steps of the Cathedral during the time the offence was supposed to have taken place.

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No offense, but you can watch his interrogation on YouTube. His excuse was that he was outside at the time....but it's rather clear that he cannot account for some of the time before that...when the allegations are said to have taken place.

Ana the Ist said:

No offense, but you can watch his interrogation on YouTube. His excuse was that he was outside at the time....but it's rather clear that he cannot account for some of the time before that...when the allegations are said to have taken place.

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When you follow the route taken for the boys to return to the sacristy where the abuse is said to have occurred, that time disappears. The complainant testified that he and his companion had peeled away from a procession and returned to the cathedral through a side door before Pell caught them in the sacristy.
And you can see that on Youtube too.

Norbert L said:

There were two criminals on the cross alongside Jesus, only one was promised paradise. Matthew 7:21-23

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As I remarked earlier, it takes repentance before forgiveness can be granted. The prodigal son had to come to his senses first and start heading towards home before the Father came running.

One thief repented and was forgiven.

The other didn't.

creslaw said:

When you follow the route taken for the boys to return to the sacristy where the abuse is said to have occurred, that time disappears. The complainant testified that he and his companion had peeled away from a procession and returned to the cathedral through a side door before Pell caught them in the sacristy.
And you can see that on Youtube too.

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See what? Testimony?

Bob Crowley said:

It requires repentance first.

For that to happen, one or the other would have to publicly admit guilt.

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And who on this earth at this time is not guilty of something?

NeverL0ved said:

And who on this earth at this time is not guilty of something?

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Nobody. And we all need to repent, ask for forgiveness.

What sets this case aside is its highly publicised nature. Most sins are private.

But in this case a man has been sent to jail on the true or false testimony of another, and the news of it has been splashed world wide.

One of them is lying. Either Cardinal Pell is guilty and refuses to admit it, or the plaintiff is lying. Take your pick.

The guilt in this case is no longer private.

Although we'll find in heaven too that all our sins are broadcast, even our private ones. As Christ said -

Luke 12:3 NIV - What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.

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I suppose I'll get a bit personal here. I've said ad infinitum that the night my father died in January 1979, he appeared in my room. It wasn't a good ending for him, as it ended in a terrifying scream, and then he just disappeared. But during the conversation, at one point he blurted out "By the time you've finished, my name will be mud on earth and in heaven!"

Now I was an atheist at the time, but even if I'd been Christian that would have sounded absurd. Heaven? Maybe - for the reason stated above, nothing is hidden from God's eyes. Our sins will be shouted to the roof tops. That's entirely out of my hands, except for my own sins.

But on earth? That was absurd. I had no intention of making "his name mud". But that was 40 years ago, 1979 to be exact.

Now there's the internet....anybody can post anything about anybody else, it seems.

So who knows?

In a similar vein Cardinal Pell's name is now mud in the eyes of many. One hopes, for the sake of the plaintiff that the accusations are justified.

One of them is lying.

Bob Crowley said:

Nobody. And we all need to repent, ask for forgiveness.

What sets this case aside is its highly publicised nature. Most sins are private.

But in this case a man has been sent to jail on the true or false testimony of another, and the news of it has been splashed world wide.

One of them is lying. Either Cardinal Pell is guilty and refuses to admit it, or the plaintiff is lying. Take your pick.

The guilt in this case is no longer private.

Although we'll find in heaven too that all our sins are broadcast, even our private ones. As Christ said -



I suppose I'll get a bit personal here. I've said ad infinitum that the night my father died in January 1979, he appeared in my room. It wasn't a good ending for him, as it ended in a terrifying scream, and then he just disappeared. But during the conversation, at one point he blurted out "By the time you've finished, my name will be mud on earth and in heaven!"

Now I was an atheist at the time, but even if I'd been Christian that would have sounded absurd. Heaven? Maybe - for the reason stated above, nothing is hidden from God's eyes. Our sins will be shouted to the roof tops. That's entirely out of my hands, except for my own sins.

But on earth? That was absurd. I had no intention of making "his name mud". But that was 40 years ago, 1979 to be exact.

Now there's the internet....anybody can post anything about anybody else, it seems.

So who knows?

In a similar vein Cardinal Pell's name is now mud in the eyes of many. One hopes, for the sake of the plaintiff that the accusations are justified.

One of them is lying.

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I used to watch George Pell debate men like Christopher Hitchens, on Q & A.

Actually now I think about it, his arguments turned me off Catholicism.

Ana the Ist said:

See what? Testimony?

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If you are interested you can see St Patrick's Cathedral Melbourne on Google Satellite. The sacristy where the abuse is said to have occurred is right at the back and juts out towards the circle garden. The door the complainant said they used to re-enter the Cathedral is right next to the sacristy. By time the choir procession had reached that door, the boys entered the sacristy, poked around and found the wine and began swigging, there would have been people using the sacristy.

Andrew Bolt is known for having very strong opinions but at least his diagram at 5:26 helps to understand the situation. On Youtube enter: Bolt Pell innocent.