Fallingupwards

Active Member
Oct 15, 2017
49
29
33
Sydney
✟24,116.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hey all.

I read a rather strange post the other day that has been on my mind ever since. The topic of the discussion was fairness in Heaven, and how every believer has the ability "build up" their rewards by doing good deeds etc.

One of the posters, who was rather confident in her response, said that some Christians will not have the same privilege and joy as others in Heaven. She emphasised the idea of degrees of joy/happiness and said that your good deeds, no matter how big or small, will be measured and the degree of joy you receive in Heaven will reflect the amount of work you've put in to help others in this life. Then she went on to describe how some will have the privilege to get up close and personal with Jesus thanks to their great deeds, whilst those who put little effort, will only be watching from afar.

To be honest, this idea of privileges and degrees of joy is rather discouraging because if our effort affects how happy we'll be all throughout eternity, and whether or not we get the opportunity to speak with God/Jesus, then I would be really upset. If some are only tasting a few drops of happiness, whilst others are bathing in it, then what is the purpose of Heaven? Not everyone is born with the ability to accomplish what the prophets have accomplished, or what some of our modern preachers can do thanks to their followers, money, or whatever else helps them preach. Life is unfair because we all come from different parts of the world.

I am fully aware that we all have the ability to build up rewards in Heaven by performing different deeds, so that is not the question.

Is this woman correct? She threw in a few verses but I have a feeling they were taken out of context.

Either way, hoping to read what you guys think.
 

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The Bible does say that we will be rewarded in heaven on the basis of our works, but that's all we know about it. There are all sorts of ways that God can reward...and I doubt that they fit comfortably with what we think of as rewards in our lives today. Anyway, we have to assume that God knows what he is doing and that he is by nature not unfair.
 
Upvote 0

Norbert L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 1, 2009
2,856
1,064
✟560,360.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
If some are only tasting a few drops of happiness, whilst others are bathing in it, then what is the purpose of Heaven?
I think some disciples who had access to the apostle Paul also had this as their concern too. His answer is found here: 1 Corinthians 12:15-26
 
Upvote 0

Ricky M

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 19, 2017
1,905
1,319
66
Los Angeles
✟130,544.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Salvation is a free gift of grace we receive thru faith. So prior to salvation, our works are essentially meaningless. There are no amount of good works that will get you in, there is no amount of bad works that will exclude you. The foundation of free salvation is completely and totally unrelated to our works.

But after salvation, our works mean everything. God says that when we are gathered to be with Him, we will be judged by our works. Those who build upon the foundation of free salvation with good will be rewarded, those who build upon the foundation of free salvation with bad will suffer loss. These are all people who have been saved, yet right here God separates them into, for lack of a better term, 'have and have-nots'.

The same applies to the 10 virgins. These are all saved people. Yet half of them kept themselves filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit by walking the walk, while half of them let their light falter by living according to the world. The faithful half enter into a wedding feast, while the others are locked out. Again, there is a division among those who are saved.

Revelation is the key. In it an angel tells John "this is the bride of Christ". Does John see a church building or group of people? No, he sees the Holy City of New Jerusalem. The Bride of Christ is very clearly specified as the Holy City of New Jerusalem. But then John sees something else - that there are people who live within New Jerusalem, while there are nations of others who live outside the Holy City. This is on the New Earth so these are ALL saved people, yet there is a clear distinction between those who live in the City as His Bride, and those who live outside that designation.

There's an erroneous idea in Christendom that post salvation we're on a cosmic joy ride and only have to sit back and watch God do His thing. But that's not how it works. From the beginning - God created creation. God was in charge of creation. God creates man. God puts man in charge of creation. God didn't tell Adam 'hey now just sit back and watch Me run this place'. No, God said "YOU Adam are the one who will run this place". Likewise, Jesus didn't say these things I do, you will watch Me do more of. No, He said what I do, YOU will now do. God intended our lives in creation to be an interactive experience. Interactive requires our participation. How (or if) we participate will determine whether we live within New Jerusalem, or outside of it.

God has made it clear thru repetition. Among mankind there are two kinds of people - those who accept free salvation and those who don't. Then God further divides the saved, into those who walk the walk and those who don't. Those who are faithful to walk the walk will inhabit New Jerusalem as His Bride. Those who don't, even tho they are saved, are outside of that group.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,451
26,880
Pacific Northwest
✟731,888.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Hey all.

I read a rather strange post the other day that has been on my mind ever since. The topic of the discussion was fairness in Heaven, and how every believer has the ability "build up" their rewards by doing good deeds etc.

One of the posters, who was rather confident in her response, said that some Christians will not have the same privilege and joy as others in Heaven. She emphasised the idea of degrees of joy/happiness and said that your good deeds, no matter how big or small, will be measured and the degree of joy you receive in Heaven will reflect the amount of work you've put in to help others in this life. Then she went on to describe how some will have the privilege to get up close and personal with Jesus thanks to their great deeds, whilst those who put little effort, will only be watching from afar.

To be honest, this idea of privileges and degrees of joy is rather discouraging because if our effort affects how happy we'll be all throughout eternity, and whether or not we get the opportunity to speak with God/Jesus, then I would be really upset. If some are only tasting a few drops of happiness, whilst others are bathing in it, then what is the purpose of Heaven? Not everyone is born with the ability to accomplish what the prophets have accomplished, or what some of our modern preachers can do thanks to their followers, money, or whatever else helps them preach. Life is unfair because we all come from different parts of the world.

I am fully aware that we all have the ability to build up rewards in Heaven by performing different deeds, so that is not the question.

Is this woman correct? She threw in a few verses but I have a feeling they were taken out of context.

Either way, hoping to read what you guys think.

Scripture speaks of "rewards" and "crowns", but it seems many have deeply misunderstood the meaning of these terms, as an attempt to view the afterlife as consisting of some sort of meritocratic hierarchy; and that, therefore, there's all this heavenly swag that we should be working toward.

Let's talk about reward. Christ talks about storing up treasure in heaven, rather than on earth. Does He literally mean that, based on our conduct here we are accumulating swag for the afterlife? Or is Jesus, like He often does, trying to get us to radically change our perspective on things? I'd argue it's the latter.

Let's take a look at Matthew ch. 6,

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

...

Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
"

Notice what Jesus says there, "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." The treasure, the reward, isn't "stuff", it's not some celestial version of mammon; but rather it is about the condition and orientation of our heart--what we should value. And so what should we value as God's people? What does God value? Well God values people, the least of these. God values humility, not arrogance. In Micah 6:8 we read, "He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" David writes, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." (Psalm 51:17)

The Lord Jesus says, "Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’" (Matthew 9:13)

So this treasure, is it "stuff"? Or is it about learning what it is that has real value, heavenly value? That it is the things God values: love, kindness, mercy, longsuffering, humility, justice. To give freely and ask nothing in return, to turn the other cheek rather than retaliate, to love our neighbor, to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, to care for the widow and the orphan. Etc. The treasure we look forward to isn't stuff, but rather the treasure of a life shaped and transformed by grace, in which we learn to love what God loves, to treasure what God treasures, to value what is truly valuable--other people, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, and all these good things. This is what lasts, this is what has eternal meaning.

It's not about getting to the pearly gates and everyone getting doled out special treats, or getting different sized mansions. The Age to Come is not some weird segregated gated community where some people get more stuff and others less stuff. Rather it's about learning that what really matters in this life is that which will matter forever. If our desire is a big fancy heavenly house, then we've missed the point, and our heart is in the wrong place, and we do not treasure what is good.

Scripture also speaks of crowns. notably those who suffer shall be given the crown of life. I suspect many of us probably think of these "crowns" as the stereotypical European gold headdress with various gemstones and the like. In Revelation 2:10 the word is στέφανον (stephanon), a wreath or garland, these "crowns" or wreathes were a common thing in the ancient Greco-Roman world, the victor's prize. When one had run the race, finished the race, they were crowned with a wreath signaling they had finished. That is what is meant here, those who have suffered and and die for Christ, they have finished their race, they have reached the end, and they receive their victor's crown, which is true life with Christ.

Perhaps most noteworthy is that we do have mention of those with "crowns of gold", namely the twenty-four elders who are before God's throne; but perhaps most noteworthy is that these cast their crowns down before God's throne. Now the question is perhaps to be asked who or what these twenty-four elders are, and the general understanding historically has been that these are the Twelve Patriarchs and Twelve Apostles. So that the, arguably, most noteworthy people in history do not even cling to their victors crowns, but before the Throne of God cast them off, crying out,

"Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things, and by Your will they existed and were created." (Revelation 4:11)

The only good even the most glorious crown is worth is to be thrown down, cast off, because before God, to be before Him, all that truly matters is Him. He is Lord, King, most worthy.

Again, we aren't talking about "rewards" as "stuff", we are talking about something more important than that. Of the victory we have in Christ, and our hope to ultimately be with Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

SusaninBC

Active Member
Nov 6, 2019
38
65
55
British Columbia
Visit site
✟13,811.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I really think we're all going to be so humbled and overwhelmed with gratitude that we won't have any interest in comparing our "status" with anyone else. Yes, there will be rewards for righteousness, but they will immediately be laid at the feet of the One who deserves the glory, and we will all spend eternity on an even plain, focusing solely on Him and not on what we "earned".
 
Upvote 0

Kris Jordan

Acts 4:12
May 1, 2019
377
539
56
Southern California
Visit site
✟46,741.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hey all.

I read a rather strange post the other day that has been on my mind ever since. The topic of the discussion was fairness in Heaven, and how every believer has the ability "build up" their rewards by doing good deeds etc.

One of the posters, who was rather confident in her response, said that some Christians will not have the same privilege and joy as others in Heaven. She emphasised the idea of degrees of joy/happiness and said that your good deeds, no matter how big or small, will be measured and the degree of joy you receive in Heaven will reflect the amount of work you've put in to help others in this life. Then she went on to describe how some will have the privilege to get up close and personal with Jesus thanks to their great deeds, whilst those who put little effort, will only be watching from afar.

To be honest, this idea of privileges and degrees of joy is rather discouraging because if our effort affects how happy we'll be all throughout eternity, and whether or not we get the opportunity to speak with God/Jesus, then I would be really upset. If some are only tasting a few drops of happiness, whilst others are bathing in it, then what is the purpose of Heaven? Not everyone is born with the ability to accomplish what the prophets have accomplished, or what some of our modern preachers can do thanks to their followers, money, or whatever else helps them preach. Life is unfair because we all come from different parts of the world.

I am fully aware that we all have the ability to build up rewards in Heaven by performing different deeds, so that is not the question.

Is this woman correct? She threw in a few verses but I have a feeling they were taken out of context.

Either way, hoping to read what you guys think.

Hi Fallingupwards,

Here is a bit more biblical information regarding rewards in heaven (Scriptural references available upon request so the post isn't excessively long):

There are at least nineteen verses in the New Testament that refer to believers receiving rewards for their faithful actions/deeds/works, with the greatest of those rewards being eternal life for having trusted Jesus for forgiveness and salvation. Although the Bible does not specify exactly what all of those rewards will be, it does identify various crowns, a “prophet’s reward” and a “righteous man’s reward”.

The various rewards and/or crowns dispersed to believers will be handed out during the judgment seat of Christ, when believers stand before God to give an account for what they did with what they were given on earth. This final judgment does not take place immediately after an individual's death, but rather when the world and everything in it has come to an end. This delay is perhaps allowed so that the full, long-term effect of each believer’s earthly choices and actions can come to fruition before they receive their final reward, since a person's death does not necessarily bring an end to the impact that their works have on the earth. Therefore, God will wait to administer judgment until the end of all things has taken place, so that the full effect of those works may be seen, accounted for, and rewarded accordingly.

Believers will not stand before Jesus to give an account for their sins because their sins have been forgiven, paid for by the blood that Jesus shed (Hebrews 8:12; Psalm 103:12). However, believers will give an account for each work performed and the motivation behind it, each act being tested by God’s fire for genuineness and authenticity. Those (works) which survive the test will earn a reward; those which are burned up will result in loss, although not the loss of salvation. Believers will instead suffer the loss of a reward they could have received, and the joy that could have resulted, had they been faithful with all that God had given them. (NOTE: This loss of "joy" is not an ongoing state in heaven but a momentary one when their deeds are tested and their loss of reward is realized. Personally, I think that's why God says He will wipe away our tears in heaven because all of us won't have done everything perfectly and will suffer some sort of reward loss.)

Hope this helps!
 
Upvote 0