The Santa Clown

Aussie Pete · Nov 15, 2019

Strathos said:
Technically there was a 'Santa Claus'. He was a Christian saint who lived in the 4th century.

He probably never set foot in a shopping mall.

Nothing Christian or saintly about the reboot.

Aussie Pete · Nov 15, 2019

Quackduck said:
The Biblical god is as real Santa but much less pleasant.

Wrong on both accounts.

Quackduck · Nov 15, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
Wrong on both accounts.

In your opinion. There is no more evidence to support the existence of the Biblical god character than there is to support the existence of Santa Claus. The god character is highly unpleasant if what is attributed to it is true.

Aussie Pete · Nov 15, 2019

dad said:
The thing is once they know they were lied to, they start wondering if God also is not real perhaps. They also might think twice about believing a thing that comes out of your mouth, and may even go back in memories thinking of things you taught them also as true, and chucking that out too.

Tropical Wilds said:

And if that’s the biggest “trauma” they will have in their young lives, then I will thank God daily. Our house is the Grand Central Station of “fictional characters,” (Boba Fett stops by on Dec 23 with gifts with several Transformers, my son’s pet tiger Hobbes has a birthday in June, Leprechauns swing through in March, the Easter Bunny comes in the spring, we celebrate “summerween” in July, we have a ghost that lives in our house, an Enderman that lives in the basement, and the Toothfairy is basically here every week). Apparently my kids will have quite the magical upbringing to overcome.

Click to expand...

Do you tell your kids that those characters are real and weave a convincing tale around them? Or do they know that it is fantasy? Kids are well able to know the difference. Personally, I avoid anything magical or occult as much as possible. I know too much about the real thing and how destructive it is.

grasping the after wind · Nov 15, 2019

Quackduck said:
The Biblical god is as real Santa but much less pleasant.

You must be speaking of Baal as that is the most prominently mentioned god in the Bible.

Strathos · Nov 15, 2019

Quackduck said:
In your opinion. There is no more evidence to support the existence of the Biblical god character than there is to support the existence of Santa Claus.

As Saint Nick was a real, historical person, you just admitted God exists.

ViaCrucis · Nov 15, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
One of the greatest let-downs of my life was when I found out that Santa was fake. I'd been lied to and I felt betrayed. I would not do that to my kids. "Santa" is simply a worldly, commerce driven ploy to distract people from the real meaning of Christmas. Interesting side note: rearrange a couple of letters and what do you get? Satan. Just sayin

You do realize that "Santa" means "Saint" right? Santa Claus is derived from the old Dutch Sante Klaas, where Klaas is the diminutive of Nicolas. Saint Nicolas, as in St. Nicolas of Myra.

The Feast Day of St. Nicolas is December 6th.

Dutch, and other European traditions surrounding St. Nicolas Day entered into American practice, and evolved over time. For example the Dutch tradition of children leaving their shoes outside to receive a guilder from St. Nicolas is rooted in the tradition of St. Nicolas' generosity and charity; and it is the basis for the practice of hanging stockings by the chimney.

How about instead of dismissing Santa Claus altogether, why not use the opportunity to teach about the historical St. Nicolas? And even still, why do away with the jolly elf when it can be an opportunity to teach what Santa Claus represents, the spirit of kindness and generosity. Santa Claus is a symbol, a good and useful symbol.

My parents never taught me that Santa Claus was real, so my brother and I never believed in a real Santa, but that didn't mean Santa didn't play a role in our Christmas experience. Instead, Santa was accepted as a symbol of the Christmas season, a symbol of kindness, acceptance, and generosity. And as a symbol fits just fine in the Holy Feast of the Nativity, for here we celebrate the love and generosity of God, of Love come down at Christmas,

"Love came down at Christmas,
Love all lovely, Love Divine,
Love was born at Christmas,
Star and Angels gave the sign.

Worship we the Godhead,
Love Incarnate, Love Divine,
Worship we our Jesus,
But wherewith for sacred sign?

Love shall be our token,
Love be yours and love be mine,
Love to God and all men,
Love for plea and gift and sign."
- Love Came Down at Christmas, Christina Rossetti, 1885

-CryptoLutheran

Aussie Pete · Nov 15, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
You do realize that "Santa" means "Saint" right? Santa Claus is derived from the old Dutch Sante Klaas, where Klaas is the diminutive of Nicolas. Saint Nicolas, as in St. Nicolas of Myra.

The Feast Day of St. Nicolas is December 6th.

Dutch, and other European traditions surrounding St. Nicolas Day entered into American practice, and evolved over time. For example the Dutch tradition of children leaving their shoes outside to receive a guilder from St. Nicolas is rooted in the tradition of St. Nicolas' generosity and charity; and it is the basis for the practice of hanging stockings by the chimney.

How about instead of dismissing Santa Claus altogether, why not use the opportunity to teach about the historical St. Nicolas? And even still, why do away with the jolly elf when it can be an opportunity to teach what Santa Claus represents, the spirit of kindness and generosity. Santa Claus is a symbol, a good and useful symbol.

My parents never taught me that Santa Claus was real, so my brother and I never believed in a real Santa, but that didn't mean Santa didn't play a role in our Christmas experience. Instead, Santa was accepted as a symbol of the Christmas season, a symbol of kindness, acceptance, and generosity. And as a symbol fits just fine in the Holy Feast of the Nativity, for here we celebrate the love and generosity of God, of Love come down at Christmas,

"Love came down at Christmas,
Love all lovely, Love Divine,
Love was born at Christmas,
Star and Angels gave the sign.

Worship we the Godhead,
Love Incarnate, Love Divine,
Worship we our Jesus,
But wherewith for sacred sign?

Love shall be our token,
Love be yours and love be mine,
Love to God and all men,
Love for plea and gift and sign."
- Love Came Down at Christmas, Christina Rossetti, 1885

-CryptoLutheran

I prefer to talk about Lord Jesus, His birth, life, death and resurrection. The whole Santa thing has been hijacked by commerce. The Santa thing has become a distraction for most people, leading them away from Christ, not to him. I was not born into a Christian home. One in 30 people in Australia have never heard of Jesus. I'm fairly sure that those people have heard of Santa.

Quackduck · Nov 15, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
I prefer to talk about Lord Jesus, His birth, life, death and resurrection. The whole Santa thing has been hijacked by commerce. The Santa thing has become a distraction for most people, leading them away from Christ, not to him. I was not born into a Christian home. One in 30 people in Australia have never heard of Jesus. I'm fairly sure that those people have heard of Santa.

Lucky you, I fervently wish I had NEVER heard of god or Jesus, which spoilt what should have been a pleasant childhood.

public hermit · Nov 15, 2019

My parents wouldn't let me believe in Santa. They told me very early it was a lie. So, what do I do? I tell my 1st grade classmate that Santa is a lie, his parents were lying to him. He starts wailing and the teacher takes me out into the hall and wears me out with the paddle. The whole conspiracy worked against me. No good deed goes unpunished.

Quackduck · Nov 15, 2019

Our eldest girl worked out for herself that Santa was a myth when she was just 3 years old. She said it wasn't possible for him to go around the whole world in one night delivering the presents.

Albion · Nov 15, 2019

I wonder how many other truths we ought to tell our little children, if we are going to deny them the joy of Christmas with the Santa Claus part in it? We would have to come clean about every family skeleton in the proverbial closet, about everything that's ugly in society and world affairs, etc. etc. Yeh, that would be a cheerless Dickens-ian life to offer them, wouldn't it? :sorry:

Quackduck · Nov 15, 2019

People are happy to state things as a fact about god, when they are a mere belief with no evidence to back them up.

Tropical Wilds · Nov 15, 2019

dad said:
The thing is once they know they were lied to, they start wondering if God also is not real perhaps. They also might think twice about believing a thing that comes out of your mouth, and may even go back in memories thinking of things you taught them also as true, and chucking that out too.

I do hope one day they question the existence of God. It is a normal part of finding ones way through life and faith. They should believe in God because of what they witness, not because of what they’re told to do.

And if they doubt what I tell them because we celebrate the concept of Santa, then I’m in big trouble when they discover some of the other whoppers I’ve told them.

Maybe they will find Jesus one day after they realize what is what.

They’re very much informed about Jesus. If I have time to explain why Boba Fett comes to our house every December 23rd, I obviously have time to acquaint them with Jesus.

Tropical Wilds · Nov 15, 2019

Aussie Pete said:
Do you tell your kids that those characters are real and weave a convincing tale around them? Or do they know that it is fantasy? Kids are well able to know the difference. Personally, I avoid anything magical or occult as much as possible. I know too much about the real thing and how destructive it is.

Well... I mean... George Lucas did most of the work on the story of Boba Fett, but I elaborated on why he comes to our house on Christmas Eve Eve. Well, I didn’t, my youngest asked if he could leave out cookies for him and it kind of evolved from that.

Do I think he knows that Boba Fett isn’t REALLY coming to our house and it’s me posing as him? I’m 90% sure he does now, but he didn’t always. That said, my son is already talking about getting things set up for him and how we will celebrate. I’m also pretty confident he knows the truth about Santa, but he’s more than happy to keep on keeping on.

dad · Nov 15, 2019

Albion said:
I wonder how many other truths we ought to tell our little children, if we are going to deny them the joy of Christmas with the Santa Claus part in it? We would have to come clean about every family skeleton in the proverbial closet, about everything that's ugly in society and world affairs, etc. etc. Yeh, that would be a cheerless Dickens-ian life to offer them, wouldn't it?

Not sure why you think kids are not able to be told the truth to. If you aren't the one telling them what is real, who is?

dad · Nov 15, 2019

Tropical Wilds said:
I do hope one day they question the existence of God. It is a normal part of finding ones way through life and faith. They should believe in God because of what they witness, not because of what they’re told to do.

And if they doubt what I tell them because we celebrate the concept of Santa, then I’m in big trouble when they discover some of the other whoppers I’ve told them.

I agree. People who deceive kids are in trouble once the truth is discovered. If something so repeated and important as a story about a magic Santa is found out to be a lie, the natural response may be to question all that you ever said. It is our job to teach kids about Jesus and what He is and did. That is what Christmas is all about. It is our job to instill faith and try to tell the truth and give children every opportunity to learn about Jesus. Having the central character of Christ's celebrated day of birth being some materialistic drunk clown that doesn't exist is an abdication of parental duties of christian.

dad · Nov 15, 2019

Quackduck said:
People are happy to state things as a fact about god, when they are a mere belief with no evidence to back them up.

Jesus provided the evidence. That is what Christmas is about.

Tropical Wilds · Nov 15, 2019

dad said:
I agree. People who deceive kids are in trouble once the truth is discovered. If something so repeated and important as a story about a magic Santa is found out to be a lie, the natural response may be to question all that you ever said. It is our job to teach kids about Jesus and what He is and did. That is what Christmas is all about. It is our job to instill faith and try to tell the truth and give children every opportunity to learn about Jesus. Having the central character of Christ's celebrated day of birth being some materialistic drunk clown that doesn't exist is an abdication of parental duties of christian.

I think you are a bit confused... We celebrate Christmas, the day chosen as the day to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and part of that is the mythology of Santa... No materialistic, drunken clowns involved.

Strathos · Nov 15, 2019

Quackduck said:
People are happy to state things as a fact about god, when they are a mere belief with no evidence to back them up.

I'm beginning to think that you're just a bot programmed to spout random phrases from the most generic atheist website ever.

Anyway, when my parents were still telling me Santa was real, they said that he was a saint who did what he did each year in order to celebrate the birth of Jesus. So it's not like they were trying to replace Jesus or anything.

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