What would you think of a pastor who used the pulpit to call an outside critic a 'moron?'

Acceptable behavior or unacceptable?

  • Acceptable

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Unacceptable

    Votes: 12 92.3%

  • Total voters
    13

Peter J Barban

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This is unacceptable behavior. It is immature at best, and hints at inner darkness at worst. As a occasional preacher, I have done similar things and now I regret it.

In a way, this is bullying-crowd pleasing behavior and reveals the speaker's insecurity.

He needs to go back to John Chapter 5 and refocus on only speaking/doing what he hears/sees from the Father. Then Christlikeness will be his only offense.
 
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brinny

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The major church ministry this Christmas is to single moms in the city. The pastor decided to share some of the emails the church had received from people who knew about the effort, but were cynical. One man said, "How about single dads?" Another said, "You just want to get their money," presumably meaning, 'you just want to get them attending the church so they'll give regularly to the offering.'

The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the 2nd person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" and the place busted out in laughter.

I would describe it as a smaller church, with a pastor that has an above average sense of humor, always trying to be funny at some point in most sermons. At such times, I usually am first and loudest to laugh, but didn't laugh this time. I was tired, not having had enough sleep, plus it wasn't funny to me.

Most churches I've been in are much larger, and I can't imagine their pastors even mentioning apparent outsider hate email from the pulpit, much less resorting to name calling. Such outsiders must have been people at home who watch live over the Internet, or follow on social media. No one in attendance would have been the people being critical via email.

Do you think the pastor was out of line, or would you just chalk it up to human nature? He may have been using the congregation to vent frustrations. But still.....

P.S. - I wouldn't have put it past the pastor to have completely made up both stories. There is another instance in which I think he was lying to me about the issue of who exactly gets and reads the email that goes to the church's main 'info' email address. Unlike some much larger churches in town that I know of, they won't put the pastor email addresses and photos on their staff web page.
...i dunno....are you praying for this Pastor and/or his ministries?

Peter, Jesus' beloved disciple "cussed" quite loudly, at least twice. He was a fisherman, and "rough around the edges" including his "language", which was, for the most part, quite "salty" i'm sure. Peter was a "recovering cuss-er". He needed prayer, just as we all do, and just like this Pastor does.
 
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justme6272

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Peter, Jesus' beloved disciple "cussed" quite loudly, at least twice. He was a fisherman, and "rough around the edges" including his "language", which was, for the most part, quite "salty" i'm sure. Peter was a "recovering cuss-er".
This is news to me. Which verses? I'd like to look them up to see. I didn't know there was cussing by anyone recorded in the Bible, and I don't like assuming things.
 
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brinny

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This is news to me. Which verses? I'd like to look them up to see. I didn't know there was cussing by anyone recorded in the Bible, and I don't like assuming things.
Peter "swore", emphatically when he denied Jesus, after a woman (and others) recognized him as one of Jesus' followers. There are other verses as well.

"But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak" ~Mk 14:71
 
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justme6272

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He needs to go back to John Chapter 5 and refocus on only speaking/doing what he hears/sees from the Father. Then Christlikeness will be his only offense.
Now that you mention that, I can't think off hand of any place where Jesus called someone stupid, which is what 'moron' is doing. Hypocrites maybe, but not stupid.
 
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Paidiske

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There's also at least one instance of Paul using a term for excrement which, if we translated it fairly accurately, would trip the profanity filter here (although our translations are usually more genteel and render it as something like "rubbish" or "garbage").

Which is sort of a tangent, but slightly interesting nonetheless!
 
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JackRT

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There's also at least one instance of Paul using a term for excrement which, if we translated it fairly accurately, would trip the profanity filter here (although our translations are usually more genteel and render it as something like "rubbish" or "garbage").

Which is sort of a tangent, but slightly interesting nonetheless!

I didn't find it interesting when I received a ban for quoting a Christian motivational speaker who used that word.
 
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Peter J Barban

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Now that you mention that, I can't think off hand of any place where Jesus called someone stupid, which is what 'moron' is doing. Hypocrites maybe, but not stupid.
Yes, calling others "stupid" or "morons", etc. is a sign of unchecked pride. It is very easy to become proud of our ministry and/or service for the Lord.
 
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coffee4u

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The pulpit isn't the place for jokes or humor. The pulpit is the place for sober minded teaching of Biblical theology and to present the truth of Christ. That this pastor called someone a moron isn't the problem. The problem is that the pastor believes comedy is part of preaching.

I disagree, humour from the pulpit can refocus a congregation, lighten the mood after some meaty subject, or be used as a bridge. It's a useful tool, and one I appreciate hearing, but it has to be used carefully.

Op, it's hard to say without being there and knowing that preacher. Is he the type to call himself a moron on regular occasions? If he often calls himself such it will have less weight using it about someone else. Here in Australia self humour is pretty common so is using a term that might be considered derogatory elsewhere about someone you love dearly. Slapping your mate on the back and calling them a moron or a drongo or some other word is a compliment rather than an insult and is a part of our culture. Someone from overseas might think it was an insult but the friend knows its a manly way of saying how much he loves his friend. Context is important. From what you said it sounds kind of lame and not funny but this is the internet, it loses most of the context.
 
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Redwingfan9

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I disagree, humour from the pulpit can refocus a congregation, lighten the mood after some meaty subject, or be used as a bridge. It's a useful tool, and one I appreciate hearing, but it has to be used carefully.

Op, it's hard to say without being there and knowing that preacher. Is he the type to call himself a moron on regular occasions? If he often calls himself such it will have less weight using it about someone else. Here in Australia self humour is pretty common so is using a term that might be considered derogatory elsewhere about someone you love dearly. Slapping your mate on the back and calling them a moron or a drongo or some other word is a compliment rather than an insult and is a part of our culture. Someone from overseas might think it was an insult but the friend knows its a manly way of saying how much he loves his friend. Context is important. From what you said it sounds kind of lame and not funny but this is the internet, it loses most of the context.
I fundamentally disagree with using the pulput for comedy. I can't imagine listening to a sermon on an important and meaty topic only to have it undercut by the preachet yucking it up at the end. Comedy trivializes the importance of preaching. I'm all for comedy in its place, a comedy club.
 
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JackRT

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I fundamentally disagree with using the pulput for comedy. I can't imagine listening to a sermon on an important and meaty topic only to have it undercut by the preachet yucking it up at the end. Comedy trivializes the importance of preaching. I'm all for comedy in its place, a comedy club.

Comedy can be used to good effect. Jesus used that technique:

Matthew 5:40 ---“If someone sues you for your coat, give up your shirt as well.” --- In Jewish law if you fail to repay a debt you may be taken to court and if you are still unable to repay, the lender is entitled to take your coat. The lender holds the coat during the day but he is obliged to return it at night because the coat or cloak doubled as a blanket at night. In a two-garment society this would be highly embarrassing to the debtor. However it would be even more embarrassing to the court and the lender if the debtor were to turn over both garments and stand there naked. Remember this was a society with a strong taboo against public nakedness. Using this somewhat risqué humour Jesus is once again counseling covert defiance and taking the part of the poor against the rich. I'll bet his audience laughed out loud. Humour is a great aid to the memory.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Comedy can be used to good effect. Jesus used that technique:

Matthew 5:40 ---“If someone sues you for your coat, give up your shirt as well.” --- In Jewish law if you fail to repay a debt you may be taken to court and if you are still unable to repay, the lender is entitled to take your coat. The lender holds the coat during the day but he is obliged to return it at night because the coat or cloak doubled as a blanket at night. In a two-garment society this would be highly embarrassing to the debtor. However it would be even more embarrassing to the court and the lender if the debtor were to turn over both garments and stand there naked. Remember this was a society with a strong taboo against public nakedness. Using this somewhat risqué humour Jesus is once again counseling covert defiance and taking the part of the poor against the rich. I'll bet his audience laughed out loud. Humour is a great aid to the memory.
I highly doubt anyone was chuckling because in context Jesus is instructing on the law, specifically the Mosaic law an eye for an eye. This wasn't meant as humor, in fact it wasn't the court taking the shirt but rather the debtor freely giving it. Jesus is instructing as to how believers are to behave. There's no humor whatsoever in that passage.
 
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JackRT

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I highly doubt anyone was chuckling because in context Jesus is instructing on the law, specifically the Mosaic law an eye for an eye. This wasn't meant as humor, in fact it wasn't the court taking the shirt but rather the debtor freely giving it. Jesus is instructing as to how believers are to behave. There's no humor whatsoever in that passage.

I disagree. There are a couple of other passages with Jesus speaking in a similar way:

Matthew 5:39 --- “But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” --- In an honour/shame, domination/submission culture such as existed in the first century in the Middle East, this saying has a far different meaning than a straightforward reading of it might indicate. If a man were to strike a social equal, he would strike him with the palm of his right hand on the left cheek. However if a man were to slap a social inferior he would do so with the back of his hand to the inferior’s right cheek. If the inferior were then to turn his other cheek it would force his assailant to treat him as a social equal by striking with the palm of his right hand. Since slapping is no longer a widespread cultural practice, it can be helpful if you could actually act this out with another person. Jesus’ audience likely would have had a good laugh at his comment. Jesus is not counseling humility here, he is counseling a covert defiance.

Matthew 5:41 --- “If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.” --- In Roman law a soldier had every right to have a civilian carry his pack for one [Roman] mile but no further. For the civilian to carry the pack a further distance would be to embarrass the soldier and possibly to get him in trouble with a superior officer. Once again Jesus takes the part of the small against the powerful by suggesting covert defiance. I suspect that Jesus’ listeners ‘got the message’ especially since it was couched in such sarcastic humour.

Since all three of these passages are adjacent suggests strongly to me that humour was intended.
 
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justme6272

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But, he didn't call him a moron.
Yes he did. That's the whole point of this thread. His exact words, as stated in the original post, were "YOU MORON!"
Was the man listening live over the Internet? Did he pull up the sermon later and listen to it? I'll never know.
 
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Dave L

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Yes he did. That's the whole point of this thread. His exact words, as stated in the original post, were "YOU MORON!"
"The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the 2nd person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" "and the place busted out in laughter."
 
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justme6272

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"The pastor then offered up to the congregation what he would have LIKED to have told the 2nd person....."THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY...(pause).....YOU MORON!" "and the place busted out in laughter."
True, it's what he obviously would have LIKED to have told the man if he had the chance, face to face, or via email response, but I presume he refrained from doing so directly cause that would have been even more bold. So how do you go about doing it indirectly? You make it part of the sermon and perhaps the critic will be listening. If he is, then mission accomplished in an indirect way. I'll never know if the person heard or not, but I don't think the pastor really cares. I think it was a combination of venting his frustration, and/or trying to show the congregation how idiotic other people can be toward their cause, plus trying to be funny. He may have been delighted if the guy were listening to the sermon. That way he gets to call him a moron without doing so to his face or via email. It takes more guts to call someone a name to their face than to say it to a 3rd party in hopes it will somehow get back to the person.

Another thing to consider is why anyone would be so cynical as to think what the man said about their motives? Is he really a moron for being cynical? People, including the pastor, see wealthy pastors flying around on private jets and living lavish lifestyles getting rich off the good intentions of others, keeping donations for themselves through their non-profits. (See Inside Edition episode on YouTube where they track down Kenneth Copeland at the airport. It was also satirized by Christian comedian John Crist, but that video has since been deleted after the allegations on John came out). There are plenty of poorer people who give money when compelled to do so, and I'm not buying this idea that 'they don't have any money.' They're paying their bills somehow. They aren't homeless. Any single parent or grandparent raising kids without a partner qualifies for the handouts.

So is it really all that unreasonable to conjure up the thought that a church's motives are to get people saved and into the life of the church, not just for their own benefit, but to grow the church and increase revenue? I've heard pastors admit that they want to go after a certain group of people in order to help pay the church's expenses. That same pastor said that breaking away from the CBF, (Cooperative Baptist Fellowship) over a dispute was not an option cause that would mean the end of his retirement plan that's made available to him as a result of the church being a member of CBF. I couldn't believe he admitted to that aloud as his motivation, but he did. It wasn't wise in my view to do that, even if he thinks that, cause it makes him look like he's more interested in what's best for him than what's best for the church.
 
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Dave G.

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What I thought of the pastor would depend on if the guy indeed was a moron or not. Also how he actually presented it and if this is common or unusual for the pastor. Pastors are only human. I don't know any perfect human beings but if this is typical for the guy then it becomes another matter.
 
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