Struggles with Calvinism

twin1954

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The truth is I have no edit button. I saw that the incorrect of my Kindle had changed Servetus to Server in a previous post. With no edit feature, I simply posted the intended word first time I could.

That is the real truth, not your wild accusations of DELIBERATELY poisoning the well, accusation of "goading", "to present Calvin as a monster" - it was not a TACTIC.

So the question is - why are YOU geared to think all these wrong negative things about me just because of an accident in my autocracy?

And my original question - do you think the burning of Servetus was a good thing, knowing that Calvin had written in a letter saying if Servetus came to Geneva, he, Calvin, would never let him leave alive. And I posted earlier that I am aware Calvin attempted to have method of execution be beheading rather than burning. It was said Council over-ruled the request for a more humane death.
Because until you explained it the obvious conclusion was as I said. Now that you have explained it I apologize. A simple "I meant instead of" would have sufficed.
 
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renniks

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Please show me where I ever said that we couldn't resist Him. You simply cannot. Again
I said:You just assume that everything that happens is God's will, even though scripture says otherwise? God acts like a jilted lover all through the Bible and you want to claim he wanted to be rejected. Weird.
You said "that is not an argument it is an accusation without a single shred of evidence.

Please show me where the Scriptures say otherwise. is putting words in my mouth."
I showed you that the scriptures say otherwise.
 
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twin1954

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I showed you that the scriptures say otherwise.
So now you are arguing from my side? How do the Scriptures say otherwise than what I have said. Please enlighten me.

You claim that I believe a certain thing but you cannot prove it by anything I have said. You claim that the Scriptures disprove what I believe but you apparently don't know what I believe. You argue in circles.
 
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Tra Phull

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Maybe those at Qumran had technical difficulties too. The Qumran commentary on Habakkuk does not include chapter 3, some scholars think it was added later, the Psalm at the end of Habakkuk.

John Calvin' s commentary on Habakkuk is the best I ever read

Sorry for underlining
 
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twin1954

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Maybe those at Qumran had technical difficulties too. The Qumran commentary on Habakkuk does not include chapter 3, some scholars think it was added later, the Psalm at the end of Habakkuk.

John Calvin' s commentary on Habakkuk is the best I ever read

Sorry for underlining
No problem. Have a good night.
 
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setst777

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God is not a man that He delights in the punishment of the wicked. Calvinsts don't believe that at all.

In the passage that you quote God is simply showing the insanity of wickedness. It actually says nothing about free will. To apply it to prove free will is to make the passage say something that it doesn't.

Calvin taught that it pleased God to reprobate most of humanity, and that God is glorified by their eternal torment.

Secondly, the Bible does not use terms like "Trinity" or "free will" or "incarnation" etc... but if you know how to use language, then when God commands and urges us to repent all through the Scriptures, then that means that God gave us the choice to do so.

God will not repent for you.
God will not believe for you.

Even to those already saved and who believe, God gives them a choice to repent from sin or be punished or rejected.

Revelation 3:19-22 (NIV)
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 2:5 (NIV)
5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Revelation 2:16 (NIV)
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:20-22 (NIV)
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

Revelation 3:3 (NIV)
3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Isaiah 1:15-22 (NIV)
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

Your hands are full of blood!

16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.

18 “Come now, let us reason together,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

21 See how the faithful city
has become a prostitute!
She once was full of justice;
righteousness used to dwell in her—
but now murderers!

22 Your silver has become dross,
your choice wine is diluted with water.
 
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twin1954

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Calvin taught that it pleased God to reprobate most of humanity, and that God is glorified by their eternal torment.

Secondly, the Bible does not use terms like "Trinity" or "free will" or "incarnation" etc... but if you know how to use language, then when God commands and urges us to repent all through the Scriptures, then that means that God gave us the choice to do so.

God will not repent for you.
God will not believe for you.

Even to those already saved and who believe, God gives them a choice to repent from sin or be punished or rejected.

Revelation 3:19-22 (NIV)
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 2:5 (NIV)
5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Revelation 2:16 (NIV)
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:20-22 (NIV)
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

Revelation 3:3 (NIV)
3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Isaiah 1:15-22 (NIV)
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

Your hands are full of blood!

16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.

18 “Come now, let us reason together,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

21 See how the faithful city
has become a prostitute!
She once was full of justice;
righteousness used to dwell in her—
but now murderers!

22 Your silver has become dross,
your choice wine is diluted with water.
God's commands to repent and believe have nothing to do with ability to do so. When the King commands you obey or die. The King doesn't plead with His subjects.

Western civilization knows little about being subject to a king.

To imply that the command to repent necessarily gives freedom of choice is a false conclusion.
 
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twin1954

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Calvin taught that it pleased God to reprobate most of humanity, and that God is glorified by their eternal torment.

Secondly, the Bible does not use terms like "Trinity" or "free will" or "incarnation" etc... but if you know how to use language, then when God commands and urges us to repent all through the Scriptures, then that means that God gave us the choice to do so.

God will not repent for you.
God will not believe for you.

Even to those already saved and who believe, God gives them a choice to repent from sin or be punished or rejected.

Revelation 3:19-22 (NIV)
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 2:5 (NIV)
5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Revelation 2:16 (NIV)
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 2:20-22 (NIV)
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

Revelation 3:3 (NIV)
3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Isaiah 1:15-22 (NIV)
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

Your hands are full of blood!

16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.

18 “Come now, let us reason together,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

21 See how the faithful city
has become a prostitute!
She once was full of justice;
righteousness used to dwell in her—
but now murderers!

22 Your silver has become dross,
your choice wine is diluted with water.
The Revelation passages were spoken to churches not to unbelievers. The others were written to Israel, God's elect.
 
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renniks

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So now you are arguing from my side? How do the Scriptures say otherwise than what I have said. Please enlighten me.

You claim that I believe a certain thing but you cannot prove it by anything I have said. You claim that the Scriptures disprove what I believe but you apparently don't know what I believe. You argue in circles.
I have no idea what you are talking about. How much clearer do you need it? You say no one doe anything against God's will.... scripture says they do.
 
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Neogaia777

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I have no idea what you are talking about. How much clearer do you need it? You say no one doe anything against God's will.... scripture says they do.
God's will is accomplished regardless of whether or not those that would do or not do, do anything outside His "express will" or not... So nothing is really, not really, ever done outside of God's "overall will" ever, He can work it all out the way He wants it or wants it to come to pass regardless or irregardless of anything we ever are to do or not do regardless, etc... So nothing is really ever done outside of His own will ever, etc...

God Bless!
 
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