Struggles with Calvinism

Tra Phull said:

You're quoting that verse out of context!

You're MISREPRESENTING CALVINISM !!

You're POISONING THE WELL !!

You're bringing up Servetus !!

( shrug )

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Prove those statements to be untrue if you can. If you are honest you know they are true about the so-called" argument" from your side. Every free will proponent I have ever debated over the years resort to such dishonesty at some point.

Mountainmanbob said:

A lot of Preformed ones use to think like that.
Until they did more study.

What do you think regarding Roman's 9?
Hard to get around that one?
M-Bob

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Actually, it's not. I went through Romans 9 verse by verse in this thread. It's about Israel. If you want to read it it's post 250

Bringing up Server is IS true regarding me, what is wrong with bringing up HISTORY? Butch 5 did NOT bring it up, but got accused of doing so

The others are accusations about me or anyone that discusses Calvinism without espousing it.

twin1954 said:

Prove those statements to be untrue if you can. If you are honest you know they are true about the so-called" argument" from your side. Every free will proponent I have ever debated over the years resort to such dishonesty at some point.

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I just did. You quote Romans 1 and said it's about all men, it's not. You were debating me but when it got hard you bailed.

Servetus

twin1954 said:

I didn't misunderstand. It was obvious the reason he quoted the verse out of it's context. Resisting the Spirit is what all men do by default. Rom. 1 makes it clear that all men have a knowledge of God in them but they hate Him so they change the glory of God into the likeness of man. They resist the truth of the Scriptures that were inspired by the Spirit and will not believe that they might have life.

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Lol, God says people do things against his will, you say we can't and now you contradict your self and say that people do resist him. Which is it? Is God irresistibly decreeing that men resist him and then punishing them for doing what he rendered certain would happen?

Mountainmanbob said:

A lot of Preformed ones use to think like that.
Until they did more study.

What do you think regarding Roman's 9?
Hard to get around that one?
M-Bob

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Not at all. You just misunderstand it. Plus Calvinists consistently only quote part of the chapter, because quoting the whole thing doesn't fit their agenda.

Tra Phull said:

Bringing up Server is IS true regarding me, what is wrong with bringing up HISTORY? Butch 5 did NOT bring it up, but got accused of doing so

The others are accusations about me or anyone that discusses Calvinism without espousing it.

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It's always going to end in the ad hominem because there is no argument for Calvinism from the Bible.

renniks said:

Lol, God says people do things against his will, you say we can't and now you contradict your self and say that people do resist him. Which is it? Is God irresistibly decreeing that men resist him and then punishing them for doing what he rendered certain would happen?

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Please show me where I ever said that we couldn't resist Him. You simply cannot. Again that is putting words in my mouth.


Resisting God is the default position of mankind. We are not robots, which is what your argument amounts to, we make choices according to our desires and ability. The problem is that our choices are always against God.

Butch5 said:

It's always going to end in the ad hominem because there is no argument for Calvinism from the Bible.

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I simply couldn't resist this one.

So now your argument is that those who don't agree with you don't believe the Bible.

Tra Phull said:

Servetus

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Really. How is this furthering your cause?

twin1954 said:

I simply couldn't resist this one.

So now your argument is that those who don't agree with you don't believe the Bible.

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No, I said there is no augment for Calvinism in the Bible

My "cause" in this thread is showing those who might be reading it that Calvinism is not true. To ponder Calvin himself and his actions in the execution of Servetus is something that one needs to be aware of in making a decision about Calvin and his theology.

Do you, twin1954, think it was a GOOD THING - the way Servetus was burned at the stake?

Tra Phull said:

My "cause" in this thread is showing those who might be reading it that Calvinism is not true. To ponder Calvin himself and his actions in the execution of Servetus is something that one needs to be aware of in making a decision about Calvin and his theology.

Do you, twin1954, think it was a GOOD THING - the way Servetus was burned at the stake?

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It definitely goes to his character.

Tra Phull said:

My "cause" in this thread is showing those who might be reading it that Calvinism is not true. To ponder Calvin himself and his actions in the execution of Servetus is something that one needs to be aware of in making a decision about Calvin and his theology.

Do you, twin1954, think it was a GOOD THING - the way Servetus was burned at the stake?

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So just saying the name Servetus wasn't intended to goad?

I have no problem with folks learning about Servetus. More power to them. It has nothing to do with what Calvinism actually believes though.

Your bringing it up in this thread is an attempt to poison the well by presenting Calvin as a monster. There simply can't be any other reason for it. It seems one of the default nonsense of free will works theology. I have heard it much more than you know. It rarely varies.

When you cannot actually refute the Calvinist argument you resort to such tactics.

I certainly wouldn't have done what Calvin did. But I live in a different age and culture. He did what he believed was right. I am not a judge of his conscience, are you?

The truth is I have no edit button. I saw that the incorrect of my Kindle had changed Servetus to Server in a previous post. With no edit feature, I simply posted the intended word first time I could.

That is the real truth, not your wild accusations of DELIBERATELY poisoning the well, accusation of "goading", "to present Calvin as a monster" - it was not a TACTIC.

So the question is - why are YOU geared to think all these wrong negative things about me just because of an accident in my autocracy?

And my original question - do you think the burning of Servetus was a good thing, knowing that Calvin had written in a letter saying if Servetus came to Geneva, he, Calvin, would never let him leave alive. And I posted earlier that I am aware Calvin attempted to have method of execution be beheading rather than burning. It was said Council over-ruled the request for a more humane death.

Autocorrect, not incorrect

Autocorrect, not autocracy

Anyone scrutinizing my posts can see this error stuff with the autocorrect very plainly, in several of my posts

Yet you seem PREDESTINED to view it as an evil act on my part

So, no, just "saying the name SERVER IS was not an attempt to goad. I explained fully in post 558, 559, and 560.

Because I posted one reply on this thread I continue to get alerts. Good grief, how long is this going to go on?