America is the Best, Most Free, and Most Prosperous Country on Earth: Change My Mind

pitabread

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Chris V++

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A week ago I would have argued with the OP (I've been blessed to live and visit in Western Europe and traveled a lot) but I just got back from a weeks vacation in Zion National Park in Utah. Now I'm a changed man. 'USA USA USA:musicalscore:.' :) America rocks if you don't get sick before age 65 and if you aren't underemployed. There are really several Americas (for the rich, middle class (shrinking rapidly they say,) and poor) and we all live next to each other but experience the country quite differently.
 
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Chris V++

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US continues to send more missionaries to spread the gospel than other countries - even though some are sending missionaries to us.
Ive read statistics in the past that Americans are among the most generous (personal Charity) givers in the world. But my European wife reminds me the higher taxes is socialist countries are redistributed to poorer people, which is a form of charity, which can make some disinclined to donate.
 
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Paidiske

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If you want to rise from poverty to wealth, then the US is the only place.

Not true at all.

And I would say it's easier in some places. In Australia, for example, the financial cost of tertiary education is designed to be much less crippling.
 
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pitabread

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What we we need now is to hear back from someone on the other side of the issue as to why these metrics don't matter, or what concept of "bestness" transcends them.

I'd be more interested in why people need to believe the U.S. is the "best" in the first place.

Especially since such a belief seems counterproductive with respect to areas where the U.S. clearly isn't the best.
 
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Occams Barber

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If you want to rise from poverty to wealth, then the US is the only place.

This is also another American myth

From Wikipedia 'Socioeconomic mobility in the United States'

Several large studies of mobility in developed countries in recent years have found the US among the lowest in mobility.[3][18] One study (“Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?")[18][16][25] found that of nine developed countries, the United States and United Kingdom had the lowest intergenerational vertical social mobility with about half of the advantages of having a parent with a high income passed on to the next generation. The four countries with the lowest "intergenerational income elasticity", i.e. the highest social mobility, were Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Canada with less than 20% of advantages of having a high income parent passed on to their children. (see graph)[18] Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz contends that "Scandinavian countries changed their education systems, social policies and legal frameworks to create societies where there is a higher degree of mobility. That made their countries more into the land of opportunity that America once was."[26]
OB
 
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Chris V++

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I'd be more interested in why people need to believe the U.S. is the "best" in the first place.
We are all gradually conditioned through very subtle and sometimes not so subtle propaganda.
 
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pitabread

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We are all gradually conditioned through very subtle and sometimes not so subtle propaganda.

Why though? As someone who doesn't live in the U.S. it just comes across as... insecure.
 
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durangodawood

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Pretty much every single attempt at an objective measure indicates otherwise, as already pointed out. Not that the USA is terrible, but just not #1.

Otoh, our absurd incarceration rate, worse than all of the worlds most impoverished or repressive countries, should speak loud and clear about something really wrong here.
 
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durangodawood

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Read this week the Japanese have ban women from wearing glasses to work. That should help us in the freedoms category!!
On my way back from Japan I sat next to a retired US serviceman who married a Japanese woman and lives there. He loves the USA but simply likes living in Japan better. There's an orderliness and respect for traditional conservative values in Japan (tho not necessarily the ones we hype politically here).
 
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Chris V++

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Why though? As someone who doesn't live in the U.S. it just comes across as... insecure.
Insecure- that has to be part of it on some level. But most sincerely believe the propaganda. One of my friends points to our immigration situation as proof that we are better off than every other country on the planet, as if the entire planet would immigrate here if given the opportunity. It's delusional.
 
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Silverback

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What we we need now is to hear back from someone on the other side of the issue as to why these metrics don't matter, or what concept of "bestness" transcends them.

Freedom is highly subjective, it's not the same for every person. Two things define freedom for me:

- Can I say what needs to be said.

- Can I own a gun without going through a bunch of bologna.

If you are bound by hate speech laws, revisionist historians, and hurt feelings, and you can't have a gun to defend yourself, then you are not free.

Everything that comes after that, comes after that.
 
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pitabread

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and you can't have a gun to defend yourself, then you are not free.

I'd prefer to live somewhere where I didn't feel the need to own a gun in the first place.
 
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Speedwell

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Freedom is highly subjective, it's not the same for every person. Two things define freedom for me:

- Can I say what needs to be said.

- Can I own a gun without going through a bunch of bologna.

If you are bound by hate speech laws, revisionist historians, and hurt feelings, and you can't have a gun to defend yourself, then you are not free.

Everything that comes after that, comes after that.
In this case, Trump supporters seem to be the champions with respect to hurt feelings and revisionist historians.
 
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Occams Barber

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Freedom is highly subjective, it's not the same for every person. Two things define freedom for me:

- Can I say what needs to be said.

- Can I own a gun without going through a bunch of bologna.

If you are bound by hate speech laws, revisionist historians, and hurt feelings, and you can't have a gun to defend yourself, then you are not free.

Everything that comes after that, comes after that.
If you define freedom as "the things I have" you're obviously going to self-define yourself as the "most free".

For some of us, freedom includes a society where guns are not considered necessary.
OB
 
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Chris V++

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But somebody did have to build up enough military might to oppose the global communist threat and the USA and some allies did that at the expense of own infrastructure, and we haven't really taken all that much in return. For what it's worth, we attempted rebuilding Iraq even as we were still bombing it. It's been said that the difference between the USA and most socialist countries is the amount we spend on defense and foreign aid verses our spending on our own internal social programs. (As an FYI we buy most of our oil from Canada How much petroleum does the United States import and export? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA))
 
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