Is salvation by grace alone? Or faith alone? Or grace through faith? or by faith plus repentance?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 12, 2019

gradyll said:

As for your picture here that says,
"We live in a time where Satan does not hide anymore, and you still don't see him."

What did Jesus say about the devil?
Well, Jesus said this to the Pharisees:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44-47).

Not sure you caught what Jesus said here. He said that the Pharisees where of of their father the devil, and the LUSTS of their father they will do. Meaning, lusts is in reference to various types of sins, and so the Pharisees sinned as a part of being of the devil.

Jesus said in verse 47 that the Pharisees were not of God because they do not hear His words. This means to "obey" his words. For Jesus said in verse 31, "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;"

To continue in His Christ's words, we will obey Him. This is the context of verse 47 (Which is to hear or obey God's words).

In 1 John 3:10, John says,
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother"

1 John 3:8 says,
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

John 3:20 says,
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

1 John 2:4 says,
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

I am not sure you caught it. Jesus said in John 8, that the devil is a liar and there is no truth within him. Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life (John 14:6). Yet, 1 John 2:4 says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth (TRUTH = JESUS) is not in them. Meaning, if a person breaks God's commands and they say they know Jesus, they really do not know Jesus who is the truth, and they are merely lying (like the devil lies).

Also, the devil appears as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). He has not changed this tactic. So the picture that says that the devil does not hide anymore is simply not true. He hides by deceiving others into thinking he is an angel of light when he is really the father of lies.

2 Timothy 2:26 NKJV says,
"and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

People today have been taken captive to do the devil's will by sinning. For the lusts of their father, they will do. Jesus said it to the Pharisees in John 8. For Jesus also said you will know a tree by its fruit. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (See Matthew 7:17-20).

Bible Highlighter · Nov 12, 2019

gradyll said:
If I decided to give you a gift, say my smart watch and you could accept it or reject it, and you decided to take it. But later on you tried to pay for it. I would be offended. I would think that you were trying to one up me, and you were not really grateful for what I gave you. I would be offended highly.

Well, we are to forgive, and be slow to anger. We are to love our enemies, and do good towards them. We are to follow after peace, of which without no man shall see the Lord. So being offended would probably not be the right approach to take.

Anyways, as I said to you before gifts come with responsibilities. Obviously if you do not charge your watch, it will not work for you. If you leave your watch hanging around a house to charge with a bunch of kids around, they could steal your watch, or they could destroy it for fun. What if you decided to no longer work anymore at a job and you had no more money? You would not be able to afford to have internet service to use the watch properly. It is the same if a man prayed for a wife and when his prayer is answered (with him regarding his wife as a gift from God), he decides to be unfaithful to her. Does this mean that the man can now cheat on his wife and or not love her, and expect her to stay with him? No. The same is true with GOD. God is holy, and He will not tolerate those who justify sin in some way.

You said:
But somehow you think God likes your theology and is honored by it.

God's thoughts are not your thoughts. In fact, God is holy, and He cannot justify sin like your view of Soteriology does. Besides, if you were correct, you would have complied with my request by now in offering a word for word commentary on the verses I put forth to you.

You said:
And this is troubling.

I believe that justifying sin under God's grace is disturbing (or troubling). God's grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

You said:
You reak of religion,

First, this should be spelled as "reek," and not "reak."

Second, I sure hope God believes "I smell of religion" (according to His Word);

For it is written:

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world" (James 1:22).

You said:
when Jesus only desires relationship.

Jesus says,

"You are My friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14) (NKJV).

You said:
The pharisees were the only ones in the new testament that Jesus rebuked and called snakes.

In Matthew 23:33, Jesus says, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Why did Jesus say this to the Pharisees? Was it because they did not believe in the finished work of the cross? Surely not. Jesus did not die on the cross for men's sins yet. In Matthew 23:23 (cf Luke 11:42), Jesus says that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy. That is why they were serpents or snakes. Think of the serpent in the Garden. What was the serpent trying to get Eve to do? To break God's command and think that she was not going to die (as a result of doing so). This same lie is being pushed by the devil today. Not sure why you think the devil has changed his tactics.

You said:
I am saying this to help you.

I am sure on some level you may have convinced yourself of that, but you cannot fight against the truth of God's Word and win. So no. You are not helping me in the slightest. I do not need your help because I have no problem reconciling those verses on Justification with those verses on Sanctification.

You said:
I don't think Jesus is pleased with the heresy presented here.
Please, for your own sake repent, and believe the Gospel. Which is a free gift.

I have already did this. I have already sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (repentance) and I believed the gospel message way back in 1992. I received His grace by faith like a gift. I don't believe I worked for the gift of God's grace. I just one day received it. But I know that the Bible teaches that AFTER we are saved by God's grace, we are to endure to the end, and be faithful unto death.

You said:
If you wish to learn more accurate soteriology, rather than quoting a book on eschatology (thessalonians),

Okay. So you are going back to your original thought that was an error?
Paul was talking to local believers in 2 Thessalonians 2. You said so yourself later.
Are you having doubts about that?
Is it not possible for Paul to talk about both Eschatology, and Soteriology in the same chapter? I believe that is exactly what Paul is talking about in 2 Thessalonians 2. For Paul is assuring the Thessalonians that they did not miss out on the Pre-Trib Rapture (Which is Glorification, i.e. the Final Step or Phase in the salvation process). In other words, in order to be a part of the Glorification Process, one needs to successfully go through the Justification Process, and the Sanctification Process.

You said:
why not go to the most well known doctrinal book of theology in the new testament? Romans? Romans is by far the hardest book to teach in the new testament because it is loaded with doctrine. Anyway, start there. Read it all in one sitting.

Please do not assume I have not read the book of Romans. I have read and studied the book of Romans many times. Again, the book of Romans does not support your view of Soteriology. Romans 8:1 says that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. For Romans 8:13 says if you walk after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live. Again, when you read Romans, try replacing the word "law" with the Law of Moses" (the 613) and or "Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace." For Paul was not referring to the Sanctification Process! He was referring to the Old Law via by Law Alone-ism without God's grace.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 12, 2019

The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD,

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

"Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears." (John 9:31).

[God said to Adam,]
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

[Eve said to the serpent,]
"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

And the serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

"For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.” (Proverbs 6:32).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

16 "There is a sin unto death..."
17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

5 “...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

“But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
(Ezekiel 18:24).

9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

bcbsr · Nov 12, 2019

Concerning that "Lordship" doc, you're making claims about MacAthur and Ray Comfort, yet you provide not a single quote from them. Who is writing the !!! phrases? Are those your comments?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 12, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD,

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

All sin separates a person from God.

However, all humans are born separated from God, by imputation of Adam's sin (Rom 5).

For the believer, sin separates him/her from fellowship with God. 1 John 1:9

That is why believers are to confess their sins. To be cleansed from them, and to restore fellowship.

The mistake is claiming that a believer's sin results in loss of salvation is heretical, since Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

JLB777 · Nov 12, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
Reality: My doctrine is the truth. I got it straight from the Bible.

Example: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

You have claimed recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

So, who's been indoctrinated?

I make up nothing. That is a false statement. I state what Jesus said. And you don't believe it.

I've proven my point. You've done nothing to prove anything, other than thinking that 'lost' always means unsaved.

If that were true, then Jesus contradicted Himself in that parable. That's where you logic takes you. Believing that Jesus contradicted Himself. Congratulations.

Let me ask you something. In a marriage, if one spouse highly offends the other, is fellowship between them lost or not?

The only "stronhold" I have is my strong hold on Scripture.

otoh, you don't have a grip on it.

OK, that's your definition. So what? Context proves you wrong.

Of course. It means a human being. Who is violating God's standards.

Like one who, after hearing what Jesus said, continues to believe the opposite.

Do you believe that His lost sheep need salvation?

JLB

JLB777 · Nov 12, 2019

gradyll said:
In general I believe the lost would need salvation, yes.

Thank you for your honest answer.

JLB

JLB777 · Nov 12, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
For the believer, sin separates him/her from fellowship with God. 1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

No mention of fellowship with God in this verse, which is why you didn’t quote the verse, but only the reference.

This seems to be your tactic.

Stating your opinion then tagging your opinion with a bible reference.

Very deceitful.

JLB

Bible Highlighter · Nov 12, 2019

To all:

John 10:27 is the context to John 10:28. The kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the God's hand is the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Jesus.

1 John 1:9 means that we are forgiven of sin if we confess of sin. This is not a loss of fellowship alone with one having salvation still because 1 John 1:7 says that walking in the light is tied to the blood of Jesus cleansing us of all sin. Proverbs 28:13 also says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. A person who has the mercy of God is saved. In fact, 1 John 3:10 says "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." Romans 10:17 says, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. I see this as not only just a one time event only, but it can be in regards to 1 John 1:9, as well. For the Scriptures say, "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:16). We cannot willfully sin and expect the sacrifice of Christ to be applied to our lives. For Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says that if anyone does not obey that prophet (i.e. Jesus), they will be destroyed. Just check out Matthew 13:41-42. Those who are in Christ's kingdom (i.e. those who declare themselves to be Christ's followers or Christian) can be cast out by Christ's angels in the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). So before Christ gives back his kingdom to God, His citizens that will remain in His kingdom need to actually be holy in conduct. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

createdtoworship · Nov 13, 2019

FreeGrace2 said:
The words "Lordship Salvation" represent a basically works-based system of salvation, led by John McArthur. I've read several of his books on the subject and I reject his tenets.

I believe Scripture refutes "Lordship Salvaton".

First, the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 did great things all "in His Name", yet, Jesus told them, "I NEVER knew you". Such a statement proves that none of them had ever believed in Him for salvation. And the basis for their appeal to entering the kingdom was based on what THEY had done. None of them said anything about what Jesus had done for them.

So, even great works done in the Name of Jesus isn't salvific. And all the time they recognized His Lordship.

And Peter admonished his saved audience to "make Christ Lord". This is something that believers are told to do.

So, no one is saved by "making Christ Lord". In fact, saved people are commanded to do this.

Since salvation is by grace through faith, this excludes any human effort, just as Eph 2:9 says.

Like I said please read the entire document of over 100 verses speaking of doing righteousness prior to salvation, then describe salvation in light of those verses. That was the very first thing I asked posters to do in this thread and was the format that I wished to use. So if you wish to continue this conversation, please do that.

createdtoworship · Nov 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
But you missed the point of the message with the pictures I used.
My pictures were supporting the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 in regards to the the "Sanctification of the Spirit." Please go back and re-read my post again involving the pictures. For the whole reason why I posted the pics was to show how Sanctification is also included in the salvation Process (In addition to Justification).

James is referring to both Justification, and Sanctification. He is saying that a faith (Justification) without works (No Sanctification) is dead in James 2:17.

While James uses the word "justified" (i.e. to be declared "just") in James 2:24, he is not referring exclusively to the Justification Process alone, but he is referring to how we need both works (Sanctification), and faith (Justification). For we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). For a faith alone without works is dead (James 2:17). Grace and Sanctification is the same theme we can see in both 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17.

Again, not true.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):

#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

Again, I told you I have read and studied Paul's letters (like Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, etc.) when they refer to the Law and or works in a negative light (When he speaks of salvation). Again, Paul is referring to the Law of Moses (or the 613 laws given to Israel) and or "Law Alone Salvationism" that did not include God's grace. In essence, folks were denying the Justification Process by trying to be saved by the Law of Moses. This was usually (and not always the case) involving the heresy of "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which said you had to first be circumcised in order to be saved). You can read this as a part of the context (even in Romans).

Anyways, I believe Bible college is a part of the problem why many do not understand the Bible. They let somebody tell them what the Bible says vs. allowing them to just read and believe it in what it plainly says.

Anyways, I reply to the rest of what you wrote at a later time (hopefully today, Lord willing).

May God's blessings be upon you, even if we disagree strongly on the topic of salvation.

May you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ J.

so again if you are saved, then prove it. If you wish to save others, yet can't prove you are saved. Then that is the sin of the pharisees.

you refuse to answer the most basic logical errors in your doctrine. Sir, scripture does not believe in logical errors. If it makes no logical sense, then that is contradiction, and we must adjust our belief to correct the contradiction. I asked if you lusted several times, and you won't answer. I assume yes. But lust is forbidden in the Bible, so you are not saved (according to works salvationism). You cannot be saved by grace and works, romans forbids that. So you have to answer this another way. Lets continue this conversation in this manner. I will repeat myself until you can prove you are actually saved. Because if you cannot prove that your doctrine at least works for you, then why push it so hard on other people? If you can't save yourself, why try to save others? So in conclusion see how your view of grace and law, actually contradicts both concepts. Here is a christian ministry speaking on the law of noncontradiction, and how God cannot contradict Himself.
Ligonier Ministries on the law of non contradiction and the Bible

See, if I see contradictions in mormon theology and condemn it because of that, what am I if I too believe in contradiction. I can never ever ever adhere to the view that I am saved by grace AND works. Those two contradict each other. So hopefully you can see that part.

JLB777 · Nov 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
To all:

John 10:27 is the context to John 10:28. The kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the God's hand is the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Jesus.

Yes.

I have pointed this out to freegrace about a hundred times, since he only quotes verse 28.

Notice verse 28 starts with “and”.

Verse 28 is the result, of meeting the condition of verse 27.

The sheep do this AND I will give them eternal life.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-29

Those who will be called His sheep, on that Day He gives to them eternal life, are those who:

Hear His voice, in which they follow Him.

“Hear” means hearken or listen with the intent of doing what is heard.

The result of biblical hearing is following.

Follow means go where He leads; Obey

Those who hear and obey the Lord will receive eternal life.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

again

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Eternal life will be granted on the Day of Judgement to those who are
“Right with God”.

These will inherit eternal life.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46

JLB

Bible Highlighter · Nov 13, 2019

JLB777 said:
Yes.

I have pointed this out to freegrace about a hundred times, since he only quotes verse 28.

Notice verse 28 starts with “and”.

Verse 28 is the result, of meeting the condition of verse 27.

The sheep do this AND I will give them eternal life.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-29

Those who will be called His sheep, on that Day He gives to them eternal life, are those who:

Hear His voice, in which they follow Him.

“Hear” means hearken or listen with the intent of doing what is heard.

The result of biblical hearing is following.

Follow means go where He leads; Obey

Those who hear and obey the Lord will receive eternal life.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

again

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Eternal life will be granted on the Day of Judgement to those who are
“Right with God”.

These will inherit eternal life.

And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46

JLB

I totally agree, brother. Well said. We can only pray and hope that others here might see the Word of God here in what it plainly says (While there is still time).

createdtoworship · Nov 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
I totally agree, brother. Well said. We can only pray and hope that others here might see the Word of God here in what it plainly says (While there is still time).

again sir, if you cannot save yourself, how can you hope that others can get saved? This view has no assurance. There is no promise that if we were to perform it, that it would even work. So hopefully this can convince you that this is the wrong view. On the other hand I believe both in salvic repentance and assurance of salvation as the Bible teaches assurance and election as well as obedience and apostacy. It teaches all of those things.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 13, 2019

gradyll said:
so again if you are saved, then prove it. If you wish to save others, yet can't prove you are saved. Then that is the sin of the pharisees.

It is written,

5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

Also, in the forum rules it suggests that in order to not goad or finger point at others here: We are not to address the poster or the individual, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture. Granted this is merely a suggestion or guideline, but it does help to make the discussion about what the Bible says primarily and not about the individual (Whereby it can turn into a personal vendetta or mudslinging event).

In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not).

Furthermore, I have talked on Christian forums for a long time. I find that when a poster refuses to properly give an answer to my points with Scripture of their own, they sometimes seek to make the discussion about me in some way. I believe this is because their argument is so weak, that they then have to make it personal in order to uplift their position instead of simply standing upon Scripture alone in what it says. For example: You are still avoiding in giving a word for word commentary in your own words (and not in the words of somebody else) on at least 5 verses in my list of 30 verses that proves that Sanctification is ALSO needed as a part of the salvation process (After we are saved via by the Justification Process). I have provided this list again in post #519 for your convenience (Just click on the link that says "post #519" and it will show you the list again so that you can respond).

You said:
you refuse to answer the most basic logical errors in your doctrine.

I believe I have explained all of what you believe to be a logical error or contradiction many times but you refuse to see it based on what you have been taught. If you believe I have refused to answer your questions, then please put forth your question or questions again.

You said:
Sir, scripture does not believe in logical errors. If it makes no logical sense, then that is contradiction, and we must adjust our belief to correct the contradiction. I asked if you lusted several times, and you won't answer. I assume yes. But lust is forbidden in the Bible, so you are not saved (according to works salvationism).

Sanctification is a process:

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,
"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13).

We are commanded to be holy:

"We should be holy and without blame before him in love (Ephesians 1:4).

"Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16).

If a person does not live holy, they will not see God.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

We should know how to possess our vessel in sanctification and honor.

"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" (1 Thessalonians 4:4).

Why?

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit."
(1 Thessalonians 4:7-8).

As for your personal question: Refer back to the beginning of this post. However, I will give a "general third person answer" to your question on what a believer is to do by what the Bible says. If a believer sins, they can confess of their sin to Jesus, and be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9, cf 1 John 2:1). This is God's grace. It is not a license to sin and it is not a means to fight or hate sin while we never overcome sin in this life. For 1 John 1:9 itself states that by confessing sin, it will help to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Meaning, confessing sin will help a believer to overcome sin. In fact, it is just one of the many biblical methods that we as faithful believers can employ to overcome sin in this life. Of course these methods are mocked by those who do not accept the whole counsel of God's Word.

You said:
You cannot be saved by grace and works, romans forbids that.

What verse or passage in Romans says that?
Care to bring up the Scripture so we can discuss it?
Anyways, I have already explained this to you before, but you refuse to accept the explanation based on what God's Word says in context.

One more time. In Romans, Galatians, and Corinthians, when Paul speaks generically of the "law" and "works," he is referring to the 613 laws within the Law of Moses as a whole. In fact, the next time you read Romans, and or these other books, try substituting the words "Law of Moses" into the place where it says the word "law" and then when you see the word "works" try substituting the words "works of the Law of Moses." If you were to do that, thing will begin to make a whole lot more sense.

For Paul was not speaking of the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), and or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Paul was not speaking of the Royal Law (James 2:8).

You said:
So you have to answer this another way. Lets continue this conversation in this manner. I will repeat myself until you can prove you are actually saved. Because if you cannot prove that your doctrine at least works for you, then why push it so hard on other people? If you can't save yourself, why try to save others? So in conclusion see how your view of grace and law, actually contradicts both concepts. Here is a christian ministry speaking on the law of noncontradiction, and how God cannot contradict Himself.
Ligonier Ministries on the law of non contradiction and the Bible

We walk by faith in God's Word and not by sight. If a believer trusts and believes what God's Word says on Sanctification, then they will in time know how to possess their vessel in sanctification and honor. They will be able to heed Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 7:1 (of which you no doubt do not accept).

You said:
See, if I see contradictions in mormon theology and condemn it because of that, what am I if I too believe in contradiction. I can never ever ever adhere to the view that I am saved by grace AND works. Those two contradict each other. So hopefully you can see that part.

Guilt by association is a common tactic used when a person does not know how to defend their argument with Scripture. Again, Catholics believe in the Trinity, that does not mean the Trinity is not true just because we both do not agree with Catholicism. Again, this is merely a method of you trying to uplift your belief in looking good here, when it cannot simply be defended with the Bible. I have asked you to explain the verses on my list of 30 points in Scripture that defends how we are also saved in the Sanctification Process multiple times, and you have refused to give an adequate explanation (like giving a word for word commentary on them in your own words). Just take 5 points in my list. Can you do that? Most likely I will not receive any kind of explanation from you on this. But I do like to be proven wrong in instances like these.

Also, there is a difference between:

#1. Initial Salvation by God's grace (Receiving God's grace through faith (which is without works - Ephesians 2:8-9) and,
Foundational Salvation by God's grace (1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16),

vs.

#2. Continued Access to God's Grace via by Sanctification or holy living afterwards.

There are instances where we see "Continued Grace" is given to believers by what they do (Sanctification) after they have received God's grace through faith in Christ (Initial Salvation or Initial Grace, which is a one time event that is without any work but it rests in the grace of God). Examples of where we see "Continued access to God's grace by what we do" (after we are saved by God's grace initially) can be seen in 1 John 1:7 that says:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:7).

So you have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all sin.

By the use of other words, we know that "walking in the light" is loving your brother according to 1 John 2:9-11.

So you have to love the brethren in order for God's grace to be continued to be applied to your life. Well, that is if you believe the verse in what it plainly says. If you don't believe the verse, it is not going to remain in you, and you are going to speak against that verse.

Another one is 2 Corinthians 6. It says in the beginning of the chapter to not to receive the grace of God in vain (vs 1). Paul makes a case and builds up his argument to conclude towards the end of that chapter that we are not to have fellowship with unbelievers. Meaning, if we have fellowship with unbelievers, we are receiving the grace of God in vain. For what fellowship does light have with darkness? Obviously there is a difference between trying to reach family and friends as a part of ministry for Jesus by talking to them with the Word of God (like Jesus did), and just hanging out to have a good time for no real good reason like we did before when we were unbelievers (See: 2 Corinthians 6:1, and 1 Corinthians 6:14-17).

Anyways, when you read verses on how we are saved by God's grace through faith in Initial Salvation and or Foundational Salvation (Which is without works), this is an entirely different process, and so you try to make salvation one dimensional or overly simplistic (of which is not). There are four phases of salvation we see in Scripture.

#1. Provisional Atonement.
#2. Justification.
#3. Sanctification.
#4. Glorification.

A person can confuse these different aspects of salvation when they read the Scriptures. They could think Glorification is referring to some other aspect of salvation when it is not.

In any event, I say this all in love and with the hope that you may understand these things some day.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you (even if we strongly disagree on Soteriology).

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

~ J.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 13, 2019

JLB777 said:
Do you believe that His lost sheep need salvation?
JLB

You have my answer. Was it not completely clear? What is there that needs to be clarified for you to understand?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 13, 2019

JLB777 said:
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

No mention of fellowship with God in this verse

"in this verse"??? Why so narrow? Why did you ignore the REST of the chapter?

3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We write this to make our joy complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

OK, please count the number of times John used the word 'fellowship', and how many times he included the word "have" before the word 'fellowship'.

If the subject of ch 1 isn't about having fellowship, please explain what the subject is about.

which is why you didn’t quote the verse, but only the reference.

lol. Said the man who ignores the entire chapter.

Stating your opinion then tagging your opinion with a bible reference.

Very deceitful.

So, just to be clear, your view is that citing a Scripture is deceitful.

That is bizarre. Very.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 13, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
To all:

John 10:27 is the context to John 10:28. The kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of the God's hand is the kind of sheep that FOLLOW Jesus.

First, let's actually read both verses together to see if your claim is true or honest.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The subject of v.27 is "My sheep". They belong to Jesus.
The action of v.27 is "listen and follow". This is a description of what they DO. Note that there is zero wording to indicate a condition to meet for a result not yet stated.

So we now KNOW that v.27 is NOT a conditional clause that links to v.28. It is simply a description of what Jesus' sheep DO or OUGHT TO DO. That would be a policy statement.

v.28 is a very clear and very plainly worded statement about the result of being given eternal life. The "and" links what Jesus did for His sheep, and the result of being given eternal life; that they shall never perish.

The only condition for never perishing, according to Jesus, is to be given eternal life by Him. I'll dare any Arminian to unpack this statement and try to prove it wrong.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 13, 2019

gradyll said:
Like I said please read the entire document of over 100 verses speaking of doing righteousness prior to salvation, then describe salvation in light of those verses.

Don't you know what God thinks of "doing righteousness prior to salvation"???

Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Instead of "filthy rags", the original Hebrew means used menstral rags.

So, yeah, "doing righteousness prior to salvation" stinks before God. And has no relevance to salvation.

That was the very first thing I asked posters to do in this thread and was the format that I wished to use. So if you wish to continue this conversation, please do that.

Since "doing righteousness prior to salvation" is immaterial to salvation, I will simply describe salvation in light of Scripture.

Salvation:

Mark 1616 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Salvation is by grace through faith. No mention of "doing righteousness prior to salvation".

FreeGrace2 · Nov 13, 2019

gradyll said:
so again if you are saved, then prove it. If you wish to save others, yet can't prove you are saved. Then that is the sin of the pharisees.

No, the sin of the pharisees was unbelief. They wrongly assumed doing works of righteousness would get them into heaven.

But this is what Jesus said about them:

Matt 5:20 - For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

you refuse to answer the most basic logical errors in your doctrine. Sir, scripture does not believe in logical errors. If it makes no logical sense, then that is contradiction, and we must adjust our belief to correct the contradiction.

Do you believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish?

Jesus said they shall never perish.

Is it logical to believe opposite to what Jesus taught?

Obviously not.

Is salvation by grace alone? Or faith alone? Or grace through faith? or by faith plus repentance?

How are we saved.

salvation by grace alone (sola gracia)

salvation by faith alone (sola fide)

salvation by grace through faith

Saved by turning from our sins and trusting in Christ's salvation

saved by works, merit, obedience, performance morally speaking, plus faith

saved by works of the law, plus faith

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

In the grip of grace

In the grip of grace

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

In the grip of grace

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

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