his days shall be 120 years

DamianWarS

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The plot line for life extension is not linear, but is an exponential curve.

Linear-blue-line-and-exponential-red-line-temperature-growth-scenarios.png
Is that graph an example of linear vs exponential or is it actual life expectancy data? It's just missing headers or what the scale means so it's not very useful if it is actual data.
 
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Jonaitis

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People keep saying this but no one lists sources.

It seems pretty clear from the context. It is also noted that Noah was at least five-hundred years of age when he beget Shem, Ham and Jepheth (Genesis 5:32). He was at least six-hundred when "the flood of waters came upon the earth" (Genesis 7:6). It is with certainty that while Noah was building the Ark, God restrained his wrath until it was completed. It was time for him to prepare, and the world to repent.
 
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ewq1938

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These are implicit and they don't connect to a larger narrative so can be misleading. Do you have more explicit examples?

Like I said, if man's lifespan was limited to 120 years, it was not instituted since many lived long past 120. You have to try somehow to prove human lifespans were limited to 120 years when it actually wasn't.

120 years before the flood matches everything best and does not contradict known lifespans over 120 years.
 
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ewq1938

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It seems pretty clear from the context. It is also noted that Noah was at least five-hundred years of age when he beget Shem, Ham and Jepheth (Genesis 5:32). He was at least six-hundred when "the flood of waters came upon the earth" (Genesis 7:6). It is with certainty that while Noah was building the Ark, God restrained his wrath until it was completed. It was time for him to prepare, and the world to repent.


Exactly. He had 20 years before having children and another 100 years before entering the Ark...that's a perfect 120 years before the flood happened.
 
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DamianWarS

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Like I said, if man's lifespan was limited to 120 years, it was not instituted since many lived long past 120. You have to try somehow to prove human lifespans were limited to 120 years when it actually wasn't.

120 years before the flood matches everything best and does not contradict known lifespans over 120 years.
Your explanation leaves a void of why there was a general decrease of life spans. We don't see 500 year old people any more and would call it impossible.

If we say Genesis was written by Moses then I'm unaware of any claims to ages that exceed 120 during his time or after (but I could be mistaken). So it would be all in the past and very abstract, similar to myth for the hebrews who received this in the desert and Moses would be the closet to come to it.

If your explanation is true then the shorten lifespans has no story or reason and is just arbitrary.
 
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ewq1938

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Your explanation leaves a void of why there was a general decrease of life spans. We don't see 500 year old people any more and would call it impossible.

And we didn't see people dying before 120 years after the fl;ood either so it is your theory about the 120 years that is wrong. Mine aligns with Noah, his age, his kids being born and the time of the flood.

If we say Genesis was written by Moses then I'm unaware of any claims to ages that exceed 120 during his time or after (but I could be mistaken).

Are you saying you doubt people lived as long as they did after the flood ie: the list I posted?




If your explanation is true then the shorten lifespans has no story or reason and is just arbitrary.

Human life spans did eventually reduce but it has nothing to do with God saying human life would end in 120 years at the time of Noah...clearly a reference to the flood not the length of human life forever.
 
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SkyWriting

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Is that graph an example of linear vs exponential or is it actual life expectancy data? It's just missing headers or what the scale means so it's not very useful if it is actual data.

The point being that life expectancy is increasing at an exponential rate.
At a foreseeable point each year medicine will increase your life by another 2 years.
 
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DennisTate

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Gen 6:3
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

what does this text tell us?
  1. before the text it would suggest God's spirit abided in man "forever" (referencing, of course, the Hebrew concept)
  2. after the text, humans are limited to a 120-year life span (suggesting before it was longer)
  3. man is flesh, not spirit.
do you agree/disagree with these conclusions of the text? Do you want to add anything? how do we reconcile that even today there are those, albeit rare, who live past 120 years?

Someone that comes to mind is Moses who lives to the 120 mark right on. Is there a connection with the two? Moses' life was divided into three 40 yr periods, 40 years in Egypt, 40 years out of Egypt and 40 years in the desert. Often Eastern thinking sees details like these as fluid, their focus is to build a greater goal so will adjust things to declare the goal best, because the goal is the most important part and the details that build the goal are there to support it not to challenge it. So I find it curious that Moses hit this mark so exactly and his life was organized the way it was. Even in his death, it is clear that it was not Moses' failing health that contributed to his death as scripture tells us he was strong but that it was time for him to die as ordained by God. Moses climbs a mountain, saw the promised land and I infer that God removed His spirit from him and he died, affirming Gen 6:3.

On one level this tells us that an average lifespan ....... or something like even a minimum lifespan of a hundred and twenty years will be one of the signs of the
"restorations of all things" that is predicted.

We have been in an era of threescore and ten years as something of a minimum lifespan for a truly righteous and wise person who is truly blessed.......
but the time is coming when the entire world will shift up to
the average person living significantly more than one hundred years without becoming
an invalid.

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20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days; for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for calamity; for they are the seed of the blessed of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass that, before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith Jehovah.
 
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Anguspure

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Gen 6:3
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

what does this text tell us?
  1. before the text it would suggest God's spirit abided in man "forever" (referencing, of course, the Hebrew concept)
  2. after the text, humans are limited to a 120-year life span (suggesting before it was longer)
  3. man is flesh, not spirit.
do you agree/disagree with these conclusions of the text? Do you want to add anything? how do we reconcile that even today there are those, albeit rare, who live past 120 years?

Someone that comes to mind is Moses who lives to the 120 mark right on. Is there a connection with the two? Moses' life was divided into three 40 yr periods, 40 years in Egypt, 40 years out of Egypt and 40 years in the desert. Often Eastern thinking sees details like these as fluid, their focus is to build a greater goal so will adjust things to declare the goal best, because the goal is the most important part and the details that build the goal are there to support it not to challenge it. So I find it curious that Moses hit this mark so exactly and his life was organized the way it was. Even in his death, it is clear that it was not Moses' failing health that contributed to his death as scripture tells us he was strong but that it was time for him to die as ordained by God. Moses climbs a mountain, saw the promised land and I infer that God removed His spirit from him and he died, affirming Gen 6:3.
Prior to the fall they were sustained by the tree of life, which they were free to eat from (unconditional immortality is not Biblical IMO).
Reduction in lifespan seems to have been as a result of the removal of the tree and then later in because of the change in environmental conditions post flood.
But I do wonder if Moses actually died on the mountain. He does make an appearance in tbe gospels along with Elijah, who was taken up into heaven. The other person who bucks the trend is Enoch (the oldest living person).
 
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Anguspure

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BryanJohnMaloney

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more dynamic translations disagree
NLT: In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.
MSG: from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years.
CGV: No one will live for more than 120 years
GNT: From now on they will live no longer than 120 years
ISV: Their lifespan will be 120 years
GWT: They will live 120 years

I couldn't find one that agreed with the countdown theory, the others, of course, have the more ambiguous wording of something along the lines of "their days will be a hundred and twenty years". to be honest I've never considered it as a countdown and always read it as 120 years = lifespan
More dynamic translations can be wrong.
 
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Chris V++

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This is a timely thread for me. I 've always accepted those OT prolonged lifespans (950 years in Noah's case) on faith. But I just came back from Yosemite National Park where I took photos of 2000 year old living trees. It is known that certain sea turtles t live hundreds of years. So if those types of organisms can live that long proving there is no specific limit on lifespans on Earth, then why couldn't God have shortened our human lifespans in our recent past?
 
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dqhall

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Gen 6:3
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

what does this text tell us?
  1. before the text it would suggest God's spirit abided in man "forever" (referencing, of course, the Hebrew concept)
  2. after the text, humans are limited to a 120-year life span (suggesting before it was longer)
  3. man is flesh, not spirit.
do you agree/disagree with these conclusions of the text? Do you want to add anything? how do we reconcile that even today there are those, albeit rare, who live past 120 years?

Someone that comes to mind is Moses who lives to the 120 mark right on. Is there a connection with the two? Moses' life was divided into three 40 yr periods, 40 years in Egypt, 40 years out of Egypt and 40 years in the desert. Often Eastern thinking sees details like these as fluid, their focus is to build a greater goal so will adjust things to declare the goal best, because the goal is the most important part and the details that build the goal are there to support it not to challenge it. So I find it curious that Moses hit this mark so exactly and his life was organized the way it was. Even in his death, it is clear that it was not Moses' failing health that contributed to his death as scripture tells us he was strong but that it was time for him to die as ordained by God. Moses climbs a mountain, saw the promised land and I infer that God removed His spirit from him and he died, affirming Gen 6:3.
One woman lived to be 122. One man lived to be 116.

The US spends more on healthcare than any other nation. US longevity slipped to #64 in 2018 (Smithsonian).

Hispanic Americans live longer than Caucasian Americans.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Gen 6:3
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

what does this text tell us?
  1. before the text it would suggest God's spirit abided in man "forever" (referencing, of course, the Hebrew concept)
  2. after the text, humans are limited to a 120-year life span (suggesting before it was longer)
  3. man is flesh, not spirit.
do you agree/disagree with these conclusions of the text? Do you want to add anything? how do we reconcile that even today there are those, albeit rare, who live past 120 years?

Someone that comes to mind is Moses who lives to the 120 mark right on. Is there a connection with the two? Moses' life was divided into three 40 yr periods, 40 years in Egypt, 40 years out of Egypt and 40 years in the desert. Often Eastern thinking sees details like these as fluid, their focus is to build a greater goal so will adjust things to declare the goal best, because the goal is the most important part and the details that build the goal are there to support it not to challenge it. So I find it curious that Moses hit this mark so exactly and his life was organized the way it was. Even in his death, it is clear that it was not Moses' failing health that contributed to his death as scripture tells us he was strong but that it was time for him to die as ordained by God. Moses climbs a mountain, saw the promised land and I infer that God removed His spirit from him and he died, affirming Gen 6:3.

Abraham lived to be 175 years old so I don’t think the statement made was referring to all man.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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what does this text tell us?
  1. before the text it would suggest God's spirit abided in man "forever" (referencing, of course, the Hebrew concept)
  2. after the text, humans are limited to a 120-year life span (suggesting before it was longer)
  3. man is flesh, not spirit.
do you agree/disagree with these conclusions of the text? Do you want to add anything? how do we reconcile that even today there are those, albeit rare, who live past 120 years?

I think your trying too hard. Without researching this I will engage in some Holy Speculation based on past studies etc. point 1) really looks idiomatic to me. It really looks like an archaic way of saying "I'm tired" or "running out of patience". Ruach has a lot of uses, kind of like how we use heart, heart can be literal, but often we use it describe our current emotional state in everyday speech.

2A) The 120 Year limit has been depicted as a kind of benevolent restriction on humankind, due to the Fall etc. By hastening death there is more incentive to repent than if a person might actually be able to live 1000 years or so. And it does somewhat limit the damage an evil tyrant can do.

2B) There are some potential Biblical numeric symbolism etc. that one might get from the number 120... for folks that are into that.


I however would be loathe to read lots of stuff more into the text besides the above kind of interpretations.
 
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DamianWarS

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Are you saying you doubt people lived as long as they did after the flood ie: the list I posted?

I'm saying that when it was written there was no one living past 120 years or with experience of that length of age. if someone lived 100 years or 1000 it is too out of reach to have any real impact and it just turns into details within the accounts.

edit: Aaron seems to have lived 123 years, and like Moses, he never crossed the Jordan. (Numbers 33:39)

Human life spans did eventually reduce but it has nothing to do with God saying human life would end in 120 years at the time of Noah...clearly a reference to the flood not the length of human life forever.

good to know, do you then claim a cause for the shorten live spans?
 
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DamianWarS

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The point being that life expectancy is increasing at an exponential rate.
At a foreseeable point each year medicine will increase your life by another 2 years.
do you have a graph with labels and numbers so I can tell what it is indicating?
 
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DamianWarS

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More dynamic translations can be wrong.
is that what you're suggesting? the only 6 that seems to go a little beyond the literal words entering into that a bit more interpretation all agree and none indicate it is a countdown before the flood. such information seems arbitrary, what purpose is there for us to know this information of a 120-year countdown? how does this information contribute to the text?
 
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