Pre-tribulation rapture..

visionary

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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!
 

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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will...

Like when Jesus submitted His life to the local government?

John 19
10 So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
 
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eleos1954

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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!

Problem with voting is the choices have evil in them ... so it becomes voting for what one sees as the
I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!

Proverbs 22

5Thorns and snares lie on the path of the perverse; he who guards his soul stays far from them. 6Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.

Parents responsibility to raise their children in the Lord ... so they may be equipped to deal with the world come what may.
 
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Anguspure

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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!
Perhaps we need to get our own house in order before we start moralising those who don't even believe that our God exists, far less serve Him.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 1 Corinthians 5
 
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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!

I knew very little about the idea of the Rapture until I ran into a description of it in a near death experience.


Richard Eby near-death .com/
He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you 'might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

Whether this is a Rapture or the resurrection at the Seventh Trumpet is something that I cannot know for certain but I think that the biggest problem with the idea of a Rapture is that we humans can take any idea and immediately go at it in terms of how the idea could benefit us...... or could harm us..... because we tend to be so selfish.

I am 99.99% certain that the Rapture will cause zero car or plane accidents..... because that is just not how Messiah Yeshua - Jesus operates.

Jhn 20:7 while the cloth that had covered Jesus' head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings.

I think that you are correct that the Rapture has produced even more lethargy in us Christians that we already had but........ I think the problem is more so with us than with the idea itself.
 
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visionary

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Perhaps we need to get our own house in order before we start moralising those who don't even believe that our God exists, far less serve Him.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 1 Corinthians 5
Proper judgment is a God given gift. It is called righteous judgment. If we are not discerning enough to make that kind of judgment then we are not inspired to understand the truth. While I do not condemn nor condone the inside or outside of individuals, I can point out that which I believe.
 
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Anguspure

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Proper judgment is a God given gift. It is called righteous judgment. If we are not discerning enough to make that kind of judgment then we are not inspired to understand the truth. While I do not condemn nor condone the inside or outside of individuals, I can point out that which I believe.
True enough. But I really think we have much work to do within. Then maybe what we believe and why it is so good will be apparant to the wider world that currently doesn't see a whole lot to get excited about.
To be sure, a person who thinks that the world is going to end tomorrow and that the blessed ones are going to get whisked away for a party is less likely to do much for the world they live in. But in terms of the secularisation of the west, the horse has already bolted a long time ago.
Our job is to build our community so that we can be the hands and feet of Yeshua to an increasingly broken world. No amount of preaching condemnation of sin to those dead in sin will have any impact if we are not in Him, living as He has told us to live.
 
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visionary

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True enough. But I really think we have much work to do within. Then maybe what we believe and why it is so good will be apparant to the wider world that currently doesn't see a whole lot to get excited about.
To be sure, a person who thinks that the world is going to end tomorrow and that the blessed ones are going to get whisked away for a party is less likely to do much for the world they live in. But in terms of the secularisation of the west, the horse has already bolted a long time ago.
Our job is to build our community so that we can be the hands and feet of Yeshua to an increasingly broken world. No amount of preaching condemnation of sin to those dead in sin will have any impact if we are not in Him, living as He has told us to live.
True, but as these points are rabbit trails away from the impact of pre-tribulation rapture and the effects of those who believe they have a "get-out-dodge" card, who are making poor choices in the meantime, I am going to direct the thread back to the impact itself.
 
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pinacled

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Like when Jesus submitted His life to the local government?

John 19
10 So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.

Romans 13
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
I don't recall Yeshua ever submitting to a murderous government local or otherwise.

I recall that He supplanted their supposed authority for all generations past present and future to hear, see, and feel.

Supposing an oppressor would use guile as a tact. They would very likely claim their evil brought about good..
Heheh, as if..

Which authority have you rested in ...?
 
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pinacled

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True, but as these points are rabbit trails away from the impact of pre-tribulation rapture and the effects of those who believe they have a "get-out-dodge" card, who are making poor choices in the meantime, I am going to direct the thread back to the impact itself.
The impact of the doctrine of devil's is as obvious as the hair they burn and offer in a drink.
Luciferian stench is unmistakable
 
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Anguspure

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True, but as these points are rabbit trails away from the impact of pre-tribulation rapture and the effects of those who believe they have a "get-out-dodge" card, who are making poor choices in the meantime, I am going to direct the thread back to the impact itself.
I don't dispute it, core beliefs have impact on actions.
That is why our core and over riding belief should be Christ crucified and us following him in His Love. Beliefs about the future should be peripheral and of little importance compared to our Love for one another in Him.
 
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Anguspure

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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!
This should be of interest to you:
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. he night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh. Romans 13

Apparently Paul regarded the immanency of the second coming of Christ as a reason for acting as we should, not as a call to apathy.
 
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pinacled

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This should be of interest to you:
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. he night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh. Romans 13

Apparently Paul regarded the immanency of the second coming of Christ as a reason for acting as we should, not as a call to apathy.
Acts 17:28
 
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pinacled

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So if we live in Him; pre-trib, post-trib, or even preterist are irrelevant as to how we act in Him.
Amen,

The faithful are called to remove the dross of doctrine that leads the younger generation(s) astray.

Blessed are the poor..."
 
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visionary

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This should be of interest to you:
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. he night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh. Romans 13

Apparently Paul regarded the immanency of the second coming of Christ as a reason for acting as we should, not as a call to apathy.
Key is Paul's understanding regarding salvation. If he believed once saved always saved, thus guaranteed a part in the "rapture". He would not be saying "work out salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) So to think that Paul thinks that love does not harm.. is missing the point that the God of Love has a dirty job of cleansing this old world of sin and sinners.
 
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Anguspure

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Key is Paul's understanding regarding salvation. If he believed once saved always saved, thus guaranteed a part in the "rapture". He would not be saying "work out salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12) So to think that Paul thinks that love does not harm.. is missing the point that the God of Love has a dirty job of cleansing this old world of sin and sinners.
It is very easy for a religious person to step out of grace and do his good works from obligation to the written Law. That is what fear and trembling is about.
 
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visionary

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It is very easy for a religious person to step out of grace and do his good works from obligation to the written Law. That is what fear and trembling is about.
You have not stood before His Holy Presence or you would not be saying this.
 
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I have come to believe the pre tribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous doctrines. So many believers, when confronted about the downslide of morality and sin in our government, refuse to stand against it, vote against it, protest against it, because of the belief this is God's Will and we won't be here for the repercussions of it! They are literally asleep!

Yeshua spoke about the disciples that the wolves were going to come in an devour the sheep! He knew the disciples and early believers would have to literally lay down their lives for Him! Yet, He fully expected them to fulfill their callings and stand for the truth! No where are we called to lay down and just let things happen! We are also expected to fulfill our callings and stand for truth! Stand against the corruption of our children! We're giving Satan an easy paved road to fulfill his agenda, and he's coming for the children!! Wake up people!!!!
I do not believe this has anything to do with the rapture doctrine.
Whilst what you describe is common with some who expect an imminent rapture, I see exactly the same attitude among those who deny the rapture of the church.
 
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I don't recall Yeshua ever submitting to a murderous government local or otherwise.
What do you call his going peaceably at His arrest?
 
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