Futurist Only The ten horns on the Revelation 13 first beast

Douggg · Nov 13, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

Thank you for your thoughts. However we need scriptural proof. Can you supply that? (re: the False Prophet & the A/C being Jewish)

Anti is a prefix meaning "against" "instead of" or both. In the case of the Antichrist, "Anti" means both against and and instead of - (Jesus) the Christ.

The function of "the Christ" is to be the great King of Israel, descended from King David, which is why in the touching account of when the blind beggar called out to him thou son of David (Luke 18:38), who would lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety. We in Christianity called that age the millennial rule of Christ, to take place after Jesus returns.

The scriptures verifying that the function of the "the Christ" as the King of Israel are:

Nark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

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John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

It is important to note that not only was Jesus the rightful King of Israel, but he was approved by God to be that King - the Christ.

In John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

So the Christ and the messiah are one in the same, in the two different languages of Greek and Hebrew in at the time in Jesus's day.

So the true Christ is the rightful King of Israel, the messiah, sent by God, descended from David - Jesus.

The "Anti" (the true Christ) is someone not sent by God, descended from David, but false messiah, King of Israel. The person will deny Jesus as being the true messiah.

Where is found that the Antichrist person will be descended from David? Is is indicated in Isaiah 14:19-20, as God's disdain over the person brings him back to life, likening him to "an abominable branch". Who destroys his land and his people (as himself being a Jew),

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Jesus was "the righteous branch" descended from David,

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

The Jews (Judaism) are reading that same verse, but don't believe it is Jesus. They will think the Antichrist is that person instead. But turns out to be an abominable branch, as it it indicates in Isaiah 14:18.

So the Antichrist will be a Jew and descended from David, but an abominable branch.

However, different from the false prophet, albeit a Jew as well, the Antichrist comes out of the nations and not Israel. Because in Revelation 13, he comes out of the sea. First emerging as the King of the Roman Empire (not the King of Israel) as the little horn, and after his brief period as the Antichrist miscalculated King of Israel by the Jews, he eventually becomes the beast, King of the Roman empire, in his final role (no longer the Antichrist), to meet his end when Jesus returns.

Douggg · Nov 13, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi Dougg,

Thank you for going into detail. However I do not see any scriptures to back up your claim there. Can you please provide them? ie. the nations in the Ezekiel war.

Marilyn, those nations were on a chart I found in a search. I cannot vouch for the absolute accuracy of the chart.

On the chart, to the left, the chart maker corresponded the nations on the chart to the nations listed in the first part of Ezekiel 38. I did not research it myself, but I think it is probably pretty accurate.

Regarding Sunni and Shia, there is not going to be any scriptures on those because Islam itself never appears in scriptures. We make the muslim connection only by observance of the current status in the world and history of Islam.

I am pretty sure that Turkey is Sunni and that will be a part of the invading muslim nations of Gog/Magog. That leaves Egypt and Arabia following Gog/Magog, but I am not sure in what condition. I am thinking that Mecca in Arabia is going to be destroyed, as it appears to me that God is judging Islam in Ezekiel 38-39.

Douggg · Nov 13, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

Thank you for your thoughts. However we need scriptural proof. Can you supply that? (re: the False Prophet & the A/C being Jewish)

My previous post about the Antichrist being a Jew was getting kinda long. So to address the False prophet as being a Jew as well, my reasoning is in this post.

We actually don't get anything about the False Prophet until Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years in Revelation 13:5, as the second beast, the one coming out of the earth. And the only way we know the second beast is the False Prophet is by referring back from Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

....to what is said of him in Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
__________________________________________________________________

So by the text, we can know that the person is a prophet, albeit a false one. Israel has had a record of false prophets. The second beast is said to come out of the earth, as different from coming out of the sea for the first beast. imo, that is reference to the false prophet coming out of Israel, and not the nations.

Elijah the prophet, when he did battle with the prophets of baal, Elijah was able to call fire down from heaven. This notable similarity by the false prophet in Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, is one reason I think the false prophet will claim to be Elijah.

There is in Malachi 4 a prophecy that Elijah would come 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The Jews, Judaism, believe that Elijah the prophet would return, reincarnated, to fulfill Malachi 4:5-6. So, even though we don't have anything in the text about the false prophet prior to the middle of the 7 years, we have indication from Malachi 4 regarding Elijah the prophet and Elijah the prophet calling fire down from heaven that the false prophet replicates - that in his early stages the false prophet will claim to be Elijah.

Which the likelyhood of the false prophet claiming to be Elijah ties into prince who shall come becoming the King of Israel - by being anointed by the false prophet,

The first three and only Kings of Israel (in its united state) were anointed by a known prophet. Saul and David, by Samuel the prophet. Solomon, by Nathan the prophet. For that reason, the Jews (Judaism) maintain that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by a known prophet as well. Which Elijah, it would make sense to be that prophet.

So that is my rationale why I think the false prophet will be a Jew, thought to be Elijah reincarnated and borne in Israel. Of course like the Antichrist will be exposed not to be the messiah, the false prophet will be exposed not to be Elijah.

Marilyn C · Nov 13, 2019

Douggg said:
Anti is a prefix meaning "against" "instead of" or both. In the case of the Antichrist, "Anti" means both against and and instead of - (Jesus) the Christ.

The function of "the Christ" is to be the great King of Israel, descended from King David, which is why in the touching account of when the blind beggar called out to him thou son of David (Luke 18:38), who would lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety. We in Christianity called that age the millennial rule of Christ, to take place after Jesus returns.

Hi Douggg,

Those scriptures are only related to the Lord. The rest is conjecture on your part.

God`s word says that the `lawless one,` is -
1. The final leader of the GENTILE world Rulership. Nebs vision was of a Gentile World Rulership.
2. The Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8) This is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan.
3. The King of the North. (Dan. 11: 40) and this also is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan, the legacy of Alexander, the Seleucid Dynasty.

Marilyn.

Marilyn C · Nov 13, 2019

Douggg said:
Marilyn, those nations were on a chart I found in a search. I cannot vouch for the absolute accuracy of the chart.

On the chart, to the left, the chart maker corresponded the nations on the chart to the nations listed in the first part of Ezekiel 38. I did not research it myself, but I think it is probably pretty accurate.

Regarding Sunni and Shia, there is not going to be any scriptures on those because Islam itself never appears in scriptures. We make the muslim connection only by observance of the current status in the world and history of Islam.

I am pretty sure that Turkey is Sunni and that will be a part of the invading muslim nations of Gog/Magog. That leaves Egypt and Arabia following Gog/Magog, but I am not sure in what condition. I am thinking that Mecca in Arabia is going to be destroyed, as it appears to me that God is judging Islam in Ezekiel 38-39.

Hi Douggg,

Islam is quite noticeable in scripture as I have quoted in my above comments.

Again God gives us who goes with Russia to the mountains of Israel.

Ezekiel 38 reveals that Russia, (of the far north, v. 15) has a great company of peoples with them. They are those who are under the control of Russia, from the former Soviet Union.

1. Russia.
2. The Slavic nations, once behind the iron curtain, have gained independence but retain the same philosophy and ambitions.
3.The former republics of the USSR, have become Sovereign states in full cooperation with Russia, now known as CIS, (Commonwealth of Independent States).
4.Three countries outside of the Russian Federation - Iran, Libya & Ethiopia.

These are the nations that God`s word tells us will come down to the mountains of Israel for God to deal with them.

Marilyn C · Nov 13, 2019

Douggg said:
My previous post about the Antichrist being a Jew was getting kinda long. So to address the False prophet as being a Jew as well, my reasoning is in this post.

We actually don't get anything about the False Prophet until Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years in Revelation 13:5, as the second beast, the one coming out of the earth. And the only way we know the second beast is the False Prophet is by referring back from Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Hi Douggg,

Again you have conjecture. God`s word tell us that the False Prophet is the director of who can `buy and sell.` (Rev. 13: 16) This means he is over the economic infrastructure of the world - the multinationals, the IMF, (International Monetary Fund) the WTO, (World trade organisation) and all the institutions under them - banks, insurances, government spending etc etc.

Thus he will come from the EU, (European Union) as that is where these institutions operate & will operate.

He is not a false prophet to religion, but to the world, declaring, `Peace & Safety.` The 10 kings get rid of all religions and the UN,s (United Nation`s) moral code, and the False Prophet declares that all worship the Global Leader.

Douggg · Nov 13, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Islam is quite noticeable in scripture as I have quoted in my above comments.

Marilyn, just from the text of Ezekiel 38-39, how would one know that the countries in Ezekiel 38 are united by one common religion?

Douggg · Nov 13, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Hi Douggg,

Those scriptures are only related to the Lord. The rest is conjecture on your part.

God`s word says that the `lawless one,` is -
1. The final leader of the GENTILE world Rulership. Nebs vision was of a Gentile World Rulership.
2. The Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8) This is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan.
3. The King of the North. (Dan. 11: 40) and this also is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan, the legacy of Alexander, the Seleucid Dynasty.

Marilyn.

The person will be King of the Roman empire of the end times in his final role.

Douggg · Nov 14, 2019

Marilyn C said:
2. The Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8) This is the area of Iraq, Syria & Jordan.

8 Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.

Why are you thinking that is the Antichrist person?

Douggg · Nov 14, 2019

Marilyn C said:
He is not a false prophet to religion, but to the world, declaring, `Peace & Safety.` The 10 kings get rid of all religions and the UN,s (United Nation`s) moral code, and the False Prophet declares that all worship the Global Leader.

Hi Marilyn, from what I am reading in text that it is refusal to worship the "image of the beast" that people will be killed.

Revelaton 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2019

Douggg said:
Marilyn, just from the text of Ezekiel 38-39, how would one know that the countries in Ezekiel 38 are united by one common religion?

Not a religion, but common philosophy (Communist) and ambitions, (military).

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2019

Douggg said:
The person will be King of the Roman empire of the end times in his final role.

And where is the scriptural proof of that statement?

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2019

Douggg said:
8 Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.

Why are you thinking that is the Antichrist person?

Because the timing is when, `the Lord of hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion and for its hill,....`so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem...` (Isa. 31: 4 & 5)

Also `Assyria` covered the areas of Iraq, Syria & Jordan. This is also the region of the King of the North, (Dan. 11: 40) the former Seleucid Dynasty from Alexander the Great. Those three countries will be the power base of the Assyrian, and he will get rid of their `roots` from the former British & French influences. (Dan. 7: 8)

Marilyn C · Nov 14, 2019

Douggg said:
Hi Marilyn, from what I am reading in text that it is refusal to worship the "image of the beast" that people will be killed.

Revelaton 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Yes I agree, however the lie, the false prophecy is that `We can do this together, ` change the world. Those who believe that are looking for `Peace and safety,` from the World System. And we know that those who partner, have friendship with the world, are enemies of God. (James 4:4)

Marilyn C · Nov 15, 2019

And the 10 kings of the Islamic Federation are -

3. Iraq, Syria & Jordan.
7. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Omar, & Yemen.

And the last 6 (Yemen soon) are in the Gulf Cooperation Council. Here is some info from Wikipedia.

The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf originally (and still colloquially) known as the Gulf Cooperation Council is a regional intergovernmental political and economic union consisting of all Arab states of the Persian Gulf except Iraq, namely: Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. The Charter of the GCC was signed on 25 May 1981, formally establishing the institution.

All current member states are monarchies, including three constitutional monarchies (Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain), two absolute monarchies (Saudi Arabia and Oman), and one federal monarchy (the United Arab Emirates, which is composed of seven member states, each of which is an absolute monarchy with its own emir). There have been discussions regarding the future membership of Jordan, Morocco, and Yemen.

A 2011 proposal to transform the GCC into a "Gulf Union" with tighter economic, political and military coordination has been advanced by Saudi Arabia, a move meant to counterbalance the Iranian influence in the region. Objections have been raised against the proposal by other countries. In 2014, Bahrain prime minister Khalifa bin Salman Al Khalifa said that current events in the region highlighted the importance of the proposal. The Peninsula Shield Force is the military arm of the GCC formed in 1984.

In order to reduce their future dependence on oil, the GCC states are pursuing unprecedented economic structural reform.

Douggg · Nov 15, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Not a religion, but common philosophy (Communist) and ambitions, (military).

Hi Marilyn,

I am pretty sure that religion is a major factor. Are you aware in Islam there is a requirement of muslims of any lands conquered and occupied by Islam, should it fall out of muslims hands that they cannot rest until they repossess it?

One of the things they do when conquering another land is to take build mosque and muslim shrines over the sites of other religions.

Douggg · Nov 15, 2019

Marilyn C said:
And where is the scriptural proof of that statement?

In Daniel 7, the little horn and ten kings come out of the 4 kingdom, Which was the Roman Empire, which was the last of the four kingdoms to occupy Israel between Daniel and Jesus. No Muslims at that time.

The same ten kings in Revelation 17, give their kingdom to the little horn person, after he becomes the beast.

Daniel - Babylonian
Medes-Persians
Greek
Jesus' time - Roman Cut off at 69 weeks of Daniel 9 70 week. Israel into the nations. Julio-Claudian, ruling Roman Empire.

End times.
Israel back as a nation in the land. Roman Empire - EU formed by the treaties of Rome, same time, and developing. 70th week near at hand. Julio-Claudian, ruling the Roman Empire, forthcoming little horn, then later as the beast.

Douggg · Nov 15, 2019

Marilyn C said:
Because the timing is when, `the Lord of hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion and for its hill,....`so will the Lord of hosts defend Jerusalem...` (Isa. 31: 4 & 5)

Also `Assyria` covered the areas of Iraq, Syria & Jordan. This is also the region of the King of the North, (Dan. 11: 40) the former Seleucid Dynasty from Alexander the Great. Those three countries will be the power base of the Assyrian, and he will get rid of their `roots` from the former British & French influences. (Dan. 7: 8)

The little horn/prince who shall come/Antichrist/revealed man of sin/beast person meet his demise by being cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return.

Where are you reading about that being the demise of the Assyrian in Isaiah or Micah?

Marilyn C · Nov 15, 2019

Douggg said:
Hi Marilyn,

I am pretty sure that religion is a major factor. Are you aware in Islam there is a requirement of muslims of any lands conquered and occupied by Islam, should it fall out of muslims hands that they cannot rest until they repossess it?

One of the things they do when conquering another land is to take build mosque and muslim shrines over the sites of other religions.

Very true, Douggg, however we are talking about the Russian Federation with Iran, Libya & Ethiopia, going down to the mountains of Israel. That is not a religious was but one for `booty.` (Ez. 38: 13)

Marilyn C · Nov 15, 2019

Douggg said:
In Daniel 7, the little horn and ten kings come out of the 4 kingdom, Which was the Roman Empire, which was the last of the four kingdoms to occupy Israel between Daniel and Jesus. No Muslims at that time.

The same ten kings in Revelation 17, give their kingdom to the little horn person, after he becomes the beast.

Daniel - Babylonian
Medes-Persians
Greek
Jesus' time - Roman Cut off at 69 weeks of Daniel 9 70 week. Israel into the nations. Julio-Claudian, ruling Roman Empire.

End times.
Israel back as a nation in the land. Roman Empire - EU formed by the treaties of Rome, same time, and developing. 70th week near at hand. Julio-Claudian, ruling the Roman Empire, forthcoming little horn, then later as the beast.

You have not scripturally proven that the Roman Empire, which God has already judged will come back again. The EU certainly has a part in the end times but not as the terrifying beast. You have only pointed out that Europe has come together. And why do you say they formed treaties of Rome?

Futurist Only The ten horns on the Revelation 13 first beast

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

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