ISIS kills a Catholic Priest and his father in Syria, now that ISIS is back in business

ArmenianJohn

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Basil the Great

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Turkey is the one to blame for this. May Erdogan get what he deserves!
He is meeting with President Trump today I hear, so we will see what is reported after the meeting.
 
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rturner76

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Violence, religion, and politics and mixing together. When has that ever happened? I'm glad that as Christians, we don't kill.....Oh, wait.

God condemns all violence. May this martyr's sacrifice be an inspiration to generations of believers, an inspiration for conversion, and a symbol for the horrific human plague that we call war.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Violence, religion, and politics and mixing together. When has that ever happened? I'm glad that as Christians, we don't kill.....Oh, wait.

God condemns all violence. May this martyr's sacrifice be an inspiration to generations of believers, an inspiration for conversion, and a symbol for the horrific human plague that we call war.

I believe that killing other humans have to be categorized due to its mandate and its legitimacy. Sure, we Christian's do kill, but not even remotely in the same way as ISIS does.

To sentence criminals to death is justice and so is defending people against their enemies, be that in Iraq or in the US.

To compare the modern day christian bloodthirst to that of ISIS is highly unfair and the proportion of it makes it absurd.

I stand by our troops, yes I say our troops as the US military has been our friends and allies for ages. The US military has saved far more lives than they've ever taken.

So I guess I would be careful to compare our morality with that of ISIS and other militant groups like it. If one does, ones easily forgetting the difference between fair warfare and barbaric bloodthirst.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Violence, religion, and politics and mixing together. When has that ever happened? I'm glad that as Christians, we don't kill.....Oh, wait.

God condemns all violence. May this martyr's sacrifice be an inspiration to generations of believers, an inspiration for conversion, and a symbol for the horrific human plague that we call war.
I appreciate your sentiment, but a couple things: The priests were murdered by a genocidal group that is backed by a genocidal country (ISIS backed by Turkey). ISIS and Turkey are on a genocidal level. The other thing is that the Christians, and Yazidis, Assyrians, Kurds, Arabs (Muslim and Christian) in that area are being genocided as we speak and the US had a big hand in permitting this. These same victims never perpetrated genocide or mass killing against others. They are loyal to their God-ordained Syrian government and have only ever defended themselves.

May God have mercy on us Americans for enabling this new genocide and the killings going on.
 
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rturner76

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I believe that killing other humans have to be categorized due to its mandate and its legitimacy. Sure, we Christian's do kill, but not even remotely in the same way as ISIS does.

To sentence criminals to death is justice and so is defending people against their enemies, be that in Iraq or in the US.

To compare the modern day christian bloodthirst to that of ISIS is highly unfair and the proportion of it makes it absurd.

I stand by our troops, yes I say our troops as the US military has been our friends and allies for ages. The US military has saved far more lives than they've ever taken.

So I guess I would be careful to compare our morality with that of ISIS and other militant groups like it. If one does, ones easily forgetting the difference between fair warfare and barbaric bloodthirst.
I didn't know there was a fair and unfair war. War is pretty unfair to civilians no matter who wages it.

I can't say our American "Christian" brand of warfare is any more or less "fair" than anybody else. Innocents die on both sides. To me, it is no more moral to behead an innocent than it is to bomb an innocent from above with a drone.

I think what we need to "be careful" of is thinking the killing of anyone is righteous. I support our troops because they are following orders and doing a job that no one else would do. I think we need to respect their sacrifice and not put them in harm's way for corporate greed.

War is about dollars and cents. Real estate, natural resources, and lucrative government contracts drive modern warfare, not American righteousness.

Do you think we would convert more middle east people to the American way of life by bombing them or feeding their poor and doing business with their rich? Marvin Gaye said, "only love can conquer hate" War never converted anyone except through force.

Sorry to sound so Progressive but really it's right there in the 10 commandments "Thou shall not kill."
 
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rturner76

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I appreciate your sentiment, but a couple things: The priests were murdered by a genocidal group that is backed by a genocidal country (ISIS backed by Turkey). ISIS and Turkey are on a genocidal level. The other thing is that the Christians, and Yazidis, Assyrians, Kurds, Arabs (Muslim and Christian) in that area are being genocided as we speak and the US had a big hand in permitting this. These same victims never perpetrated genocide or mass killing against others. They are loyal to their God-ordained Syrian government and have only ever defended themselves.

May God have mercy on us Americans for enabling this new genocide and the killings going on.
Of course, Priests and most Christians abhor violence. Most people in general do. I'm just trying to say the more we fight, the more we die. I agree the US government set the stage for this genocide by pulling out with no thought to what will happen when the troops leave. Even though the Kurds have been fighting on our side since WWII.

That is why I'm saying war is not about saving lives, It's about looting foreign nations and/or forcing governments to capitulate to our (as Americans) demands or accept our puppet in office. If our government is going to invade other nations in the name of democracy, we should stay until there are free elections in that nation. Otherwise, what is a victory? What is being fought for? Wiping out ISIS? We can't even eliminate violent organizations in our own country, how are we going to control them over there? But the Kurds could have been protected if nothing else.
 
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Michie

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I didn't know there was a fair and unfair war. War is pretty unfair to civilians no matter who wages it.

I can't say our American "Christian" brand of warfare is any more or less "fair" than anybody else. Innocents die on both sides. To me, it is no more moral to behead an innocent than it is to bomb an innocent from above with a drone.

I think what we need to "be careful" of is thinking the killing of anyone is righteous. I support our troops because they are following orders and doing a job that no one else would do. I think we need to respect their sacrifice and not put them in harm's way for corporate greed.

War is about dollars and cents. Real estate, natural resources, and lucrative government contracts drive modern warfare, not American righteousness.

Do you think we would convert more middle east people to the American way of life by bombing them or feeding their poor and doing business with their rich? Marvin Gaye said, "only love can conquer hate" War never converted anyone except through force.

Sorry to sound so Progressive but really it's right there in the 10 commandments "Thou shall not kill."
So Christians should be pacifists? I thought it was well known that "Thou shall not kill" means murder.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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So Christians should be pacifists? I thought it was well known that "Thou shall not kill" means murder.
I do think Christians should be pacifists but not to the far extreme. I agree with you that there are many cases for self defense. Also, when nations wage wars it is part of their duty to their people in many cases to do so - self-defense (national defense) is a perfect example. I just think also that too often what we the people are told is a war in "self-defense" is usually just a pretext for a more immoral war of looting resources from others in one way or another. I think the number of justifiable wars and fighting/killing is far smaller than the number of immoral ones.

In regards to this thread, to stay on topic, the fighting in this part of the world is continuing for generations. As someone whose family is from that area I'm well aware of it all, but as an American born and raised in the US I'm also aware that many of my fellow Americans aren't aware of the whole story (mostly through no fault of their own). So I'm posting this to bring some awareness, that's all.

As for Catholics, most western and American ones are like most other Westerners/Americans, but I know that because there is a large Catholic population of Arabs and others in the Middle East, often Catholics have a better knowledge of the situation there than other westerners/Americans (like protestants and other non-Catholics). That's why I'm not surprised at the sympathetic responses to this thread (and glad for it) and why I posted here also.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Of course, Priests and most Christians abhor violence. Most people in general do. I'm just trying to say the more we fight, the more we die. I agree the US government set the stage for this genocide by pulling out with no thought to what will happen when the troops leave. Even though the Kurds have been fighting on our side since WWII.

That is why I'm saying war is not about saving lives, It's about looting foreign nations and/or forcing governments to capitulate to our (as Americans) demands or accept our puppet in office. If our government is going to invade other nations in the name of democracy, we should stay until there are free elections in that nation. Otherwise, what is a victory? What is being fought for? Wiping out ISIS? We can't even eliminate violent organizations in our own country, how are we going to control them over there? But the Kurds could have been protected if nothing else.
Thanks for the good post. I mostly agree but I wouldn't be so quick to throw out all war as sometimes war is justifiable, especially in cases of real national defense.

I think what bothers me is how blind I was in the past and how blind others still are to the reality of what the US does compared to the justifications the US gives us Americans for the wars and military actions we do. What bothers me even much more is that so many people get angry and nationalistic and ultra-defensive when you try to talk about these things. (Haven't seen that on this thread, just saying in general, in life.)
 
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rturner76

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Thanks for the good post. I mostly agree but I wouldn't be so quick to throw out all war as sometimes war is justifiable, especially in cases of real national defense.

I think what bothers me is how blind I was in the past and how blind others still are to the reality of what the US does compared to the justifications the US gives us Americans for the wars and military actions we do. What bothers me even much more is that so many people get angry and nationalistic and ultra-defensive when you try to talk about these things. (Haven't seen that on this thread, just saying in general, in life.)
This is exactly what I am trying to say. The war drums beat more for money than "democracy" but we are told we are in danger from a foreign threat. The first rule of Nationalis is to create the appearance of an outside threat in order to rally people to your cause. "We must stand together against this threat and I am the only one who can protect you from the "enemy."

I wish we did have benevolent political leaders but most (not all) were placed in their position by financiers. Many politicians will always owe special consideration to their "supporters" or they lose their financing. They claim we are some kind of moral crusaders when our country is one of the most debaucherous, violent countries in the world IMO.
 
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rturner76

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So Christians should be pacifists? I thought it was well known that "Thou shall not kill" means murder.
Except for those who's occupation involves violence like soldier and police or bodyguards etc. violence CAN be acceptable when facing danger or invasion. IMO an average Christian should be a pacifist. At least if we want to follow Jesus' example and bless those who persecute us. It can be more difficult NOT to fight than to fight IMO. God blesses those who suffer for the spread of the gospel. Noted that there are techniques to defend yourself without inflicting damage to your attacker with chole holds and limb locks.
 
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