LDS Mormon Emphasis on 100% Obedience

About a year or so back there was a big to-do in the world of video games.

Cuphead - Wikipedia

2017 saw the initial release of Cuphead, a side-scrolling adventure shooter lovingly rendered like one big 1930s cartoon short.

Once people got past the artwork, however, they discovered that it was actually a pretty difficult game and that you had to keep your wits about you if you wanted to win.

Trying to solve a puzzle? Hung up on a boss fight? The internet felt your pain.

Completely unable to do the tutorial at the beginning of the game?



Yet that's what happened.

There's a tutorial at the beginning of the game where the game walks you through *everything* you need to be able to do to beat it, from simple directional movement to advanced techniques like "how to revive other players who got killed".

One maneuver enables you to jump a second time once you're airborne from a previous jump, and the tutorial explained exactly how it was done. But instead of taking two or three tries like a normal person might, a self-professed video game reviewer spent several minutes hung up on how to make it happen before declaring the game to be far too hard and pretty well quitting.



Yes, the footage of him fumbling about is online.

You see, you can give people the full instructions on how to do something and hold their hand from start to finish. But that person still has to actually make things happen and figure them out for themselves if it's to do them any good.


(For the record, IRL I have nerve damage in both hands. My days of button-mashing are pretty well over, so no I haven't played it for myself yet. I can barely make it through old-school "Doom" now.)

Phoebe Ann said:

Any verse that promises a blessing if you do a good deed is emphasized by Mormons to justify their Doctrine and Covenants verses by Joseph Smith:

D&C 130:20-21 states:
There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated-- And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Who tells God when He can or can't bless someone?

Who enables us to do good?

Philippians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Paul, inspired by God, also taught us the following:

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Does Paul deserve the credit for what God did with him?

Luke 17
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Is God prohibited from blessing the unworthy servant?

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You said: "Who tells God when He can or can't bless someone?"

No one, God tells us who He will bless and who He won't, He tells us:

(New Testament | Hebrews 11:6)

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(New Testament | John 3:3 - 5)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(New Testament | John 15:4 - 12)

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

You said: "Does Paul deserve the credit for what God did with him?"

Not one person deserves all that God has already done for them. No one deserves what God is willing to do for those who LOVE Him. It is clear to me that Paul devoted his life to God. Paul made it clear that we should no longer sin:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 6)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You said:

"Is God prohibited from blessing the unworthy servant?"

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 64:10)

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

(New Testament | Romans 9:18)

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Phoebe Ann said:

Doctrine and Covenants 82
9 Or, in other words, I give unto you directions how you may act before me, that it may turn to you for your salvation.

10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

The Mormon god has to continue to live the laws of the Celestial Kingdom. He can not chose to have mercy on someone who is disobedient because blessings are only given on the basis of obedience.

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You said: "He can not chose to have mercy on someone who is disobedient because blessings are only given on the basis of obedience."

How did you come up with that? It is not in the scriptures you quoted.

He is the way said:

You said: "Who tells God when He can or can't bless someone?"

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Joseph Smith?

drstevej said:

Joseph Smith?

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No, the correct answer is no one. That being said God does follow His own rules.

The Mormon God does abandon/change the Bible when convenient. Mormonism is not Christian.

He is the way said:

No, the correct answer is no one. That being said God does follow His own rules.

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Is it God's rule that blessings are based on one's obedience?

drstevej said:

The Mormon God does abandon/change the Bible when convenient. Mormonism is not Christian.

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There is only one God the Father and He is the Father of all of us:

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

BigDaddy4 said:

Is it God's rule that blessings are based on one's obedience?

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Yes, these are some of the blessings that come to the obedient:

(Old Testament | Exodus 23:22)

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

(Old Testament | 1 Samuel 12:14 - 15)

14 If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God:
15 But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall the hand of the LORD be against you, as it was against your fathers.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 1:19)

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 16)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Here are a few more from: Topical Bible: Obedience

"Luke 23:56
Then they returned, and prepared spices and perfumes. On the Sabbath they rested in obedience to the Commandment.
(WEY NIV)

John 14:31
but it is in order that the world may know that I love the Father, and that it is in obedience to the command which the Father gave me that I thus act. Rise, let us be going."
(WEY)

Acts 14:2
But the Jews who had refused obedience stirred up the Gentiles and embittered their minds against the brethren.
(WEY)

Acts 21:24
Take them, and purify yourself with them, and pay their expenses for them, that they may shave their heads. Then all will know that there is no truth in the things that they have been informed about you, but that you yourself also walk keeping the law.
(See NIV)

Acts 23:31
So, in obedience to their orders, the soldiers took Paul and brought him by night as far as Antipatris.
(WEY)

Acts 26:18
that they may turn from darkness to light and from the obedience to Satan to God, in order to receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified through faith in Me.'
(WEY)

Romans 1:5
through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name's sake;
(WEB KJV WEY ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

Romans 3:20
For on the ground of obedience to Law no man living will be declared righteous before Him. Law simply brings a sure knowledge of sin.
(WEY)

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that it is as the result of faith that a man is held to be righteous, apart from actions done in obedience to Law.
(WEY)

Romans 5:19
For as through the one man's disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, many will be made righteous.
(Root in WEB KJV WEY ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

Romans 6:16
Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
(WEB KJV ASV DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)

Romans 6:17
But thanks be to God that though you were once in thraldom to Sin, you have now yielded a hearty obedience to that system of truth in which you have been instructed.
(WEY)

Romans 13:10
Love avoids doing any wrong to one's fellow man, and is therefore complete obedience to Law.
(WEY)

Romans 14:23
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because it isn't of faith; and whatever is not of faith is sin. (24) Now to him who is able to establish you according to my Good News and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret through long ages, (25) but now is revealed, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known for obedience of faith to all the nations; (26) to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever! Amen.
(WEB)

Romans 15:18
For I will not dare to speak of any things except those which Christ worked through me, for the obedience of the Gentiles, by word and deed,"

There are too many to list here.

Phoebe Ann said:

1 God Was Once a Man
As We Are Now
When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, “and you cannot wish to be greater”(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp. 9-10).

President Lorenzo Snow recorded this experience that occurred when he was still a young elder: “The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun shone at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man.” Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you” (quoted by LeRoi C. Snow, in “Devotion to Divine Inspiration,” Improvement Era, June 1919, pp. 651-56).

The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
“...It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth” (Teachings, pp. 345-46; italics in original).

President Brigham Young elaborated on this concept: “It must be that God knows something about temporal things, and has a body and been on an earth; were it not so He would not know how to judge men righteously, according to the temptations and sins they have had to contend with” (as cited by Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, Apr. 1969, p. 130; or Improvement Era, June 1969, p. 104).
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 151)

People need to understand that the laws that govern the Celestial Kingdom have to be obeyed. A person may have attained/earned godhood, but if he fails to obey he loses the blessing. There is free will in every Mormon kingdom.

LDS - LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

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Lorenzo Snow was indeed a powerful prophet of God:

When Lorenzo Snow Saw the Savior in the Temple (+ What He Looked Like) | LDS Living

Lorenzo Snow Raises Ella Jensen from the Dead

Phoebe Ann said:

The Mormon god withholds blessings from imperfect people:

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.


D&C 82:10. “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say”
This verse shows a part of God’s basic nature: the way He deals with His children and the reason they can trust Him. Elder James E. Talmage said: “‘Mormonism’ has taught me that God holds himself accountable to law even as he expects us to do. He has set us the example in obedience to law. I know that to say this would have been heresy a few decades ago. But we have the divine word for it: ‘I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.’ (Doc. and Cov. 82:10.) He operates by law and not by arbitrariness or caprice.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1930, p. 96.)

Section 82, “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say”

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When you say God "withholds blessings from imperfect people" which people do you mean? Is it murderers, rapists, liars, harlot mongers, etc? However, God does give blessings to those who repent and forsake their sins.