Do Dispensationalists share in the guilt of bloodshed related to Israel?
- Thread starter Dave L
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Interestingly, in that particular verse (Romans 11:14), most translations refer to the gentiles making 'my own people/ my own flesh' jealous in order to save them, which would further support the many posts here stating that they are his own people and yet still in need of saving.
It counters your view.
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- May 26, 2019
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Yes, but he separated the worlds Nations.
Genesis 10 and 1 Chronicles 1
Most of these names in Genesis 10 and
I Chronicles 1 are simple to trace.
These two chapters hold [key names]
which determine the nations, or races today.
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- May 19, 2015
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I have noticed most, if not all, Dispensationalist Futurists rarely bring up Josephus and his account of that 70AD destruction in connection with the Olivet Discourse and Revelation [which I view as the same events].
Matt 24:6 is concerning the 1st century Jewish Wars some/most of them would probably be living thru.
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Matthew 24:6 “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
==============================
The murder of James the Just was just a few years before the start of the apostate Jewish Revolt.......
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War
CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline
CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR
Mattthew 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and they shall be killing Ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nation thru/because-of the Name of Me;
Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
====================================
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And those physical decendents are still hear today.
All nations and races sprang from Japheth,
Ham and Shem, the three sons of Noah.
From the three sons sprang 16 grandsons
of Noah. These 16 family names illustrate
all the general types of people extant today.
Just one example
A son of Shem Arphaxad . He is mentoned
in Genesis 10:22 and I Chronicles 1:24.
Arphaxad had a grandson named Eber.
The name Erber mens a "migrant," one
who comes from the'region beyond."
The sons of Eber are properly known as
"Hebrews"---and there are about 400
million of them on earth today!
Another one
Abraham's firstborn son was Ishmael
(Gen.16:15). His descendants are called
Arabs today.
They still remember that they are descended
from Abram's son Ishmael. Ask any Arab.
He'll tell you so!
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Verse 23 proves you wrong "And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree."
They remain Israel BECAUSE they can be grafted BACK IN if they turn from unbelief. They don't become something else.
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They then become the True Spiritual Israel of God and give up OC Mosaic Temple Judaism.....which brings Death instead of Life....
Replacement Theology, supersessionism: Christians are God's Jews. The church is true Israel.
John 8:44 `Ye out of a father the Devil are, and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing. That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him. Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it. [Reve 18:14]
Luke 21:12
“But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons<5438>. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake.
James 1:12
Blessed is the man enduring trial<3986>; for when he has been approved, he will receive the Crown of the Life which the Lord promises to those who love Him.
================================
I could use more input on this thread:
Revelation 2:10 "fear not...ye shall have tribulation 10 days"
Revelation 2:10 No yet thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison, that ye may be being tried<3985>. And ye shall be having tribulation ten days,
Be thou becoming faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the Crown of the Life.
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They become 'spiritual Israel' AFTER believing. They remain the broken off branches of Israel until belief.
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Yes. Belief unto the faith of Jesus like any other non believer in Christ.
I am of the Israel of God/Christian because of that faith in Jesus and the hope of the resurrection and eternal life.
Read this Covenantle parable in Luke 16 in conjunction with Revelation........
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
LUKE 16:
30 "And he said, 'Nay father Abraham[Faith/Life]! but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses[Law/Death] and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "
Revelation 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I AM living into the Ages of the Ages, and I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death.
=======================================
Luke 16:26 and the great "chasm/gulf".
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I am not a Dispen. but the idea of Replacement theology is not accurate either.
There has been one 'chosen people of God' from the very beginning, people who were/are found righteous by faith, those looking forward to redemption through the Messiah and those who look back and see their redemption fulfilled in the Messiah at the cross. Job was looking forward, David looked forward...Replacement theology is bad theology.
Job_19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
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That's fine and good. I just want to be clear that we are fellow citizens as Christians with Believing Jews, but the Church does not negate the plans or promises meant for the Israel that prophecy relates to, particularly in relation to end times.
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What defines the area of Judea today.
Happy Veterans Day!
John 4:
7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.”
20 “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee
Matthew 24:16
then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination of the desolation<2050>, the one being declared by Daniel the prophet, standing where it is not binding, (whoever is reading let him be understanding!)
Then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains
Luke 21:
21 then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains;
and those in midst of Her, let them be coming out to country;
and those in the countries placed, let them not come be entering into Her
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.
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I have a thread on Daniel 11 that may also be talking about the 1st century great North[Israel/Gentiles] and South[Kingdom of Judah] War/Rebellion.
Daniel 11 and the great North/Israel/Gentiles vs South/Judah War
Daniel 11 is a great chapter in the Bible and it appears to be talking about the "great warfare" in Daniel 10:1 involving a type of "Civil War" between the North and South.
Daniel 10:1
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, even a great warfare
and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.
=================================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline
CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR
Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
==================
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The church indeed eventually gave up he truth that had been delivered to them. The early writers more or less followed what the scriptures actually say. But by the fifth century the church had given up many of the basic truths delivered to them by the New Testament Apostles and prophets.
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