Allegiance to the "Duly Elected" President?

jgarden · Nov 11, 2019

GACfan said:
As an American, do you believe that the Senate or the other branches of government should give their allegiance to a rightly duly elected President? Should you as an American? I decided to start this thread because I just read an interesting comment that implied the Senate should give their allegiance to the duly elected President, which at this time is Donald Trump. I do have my doubts, however, that this passionate sentiment would have been shared if the current President was a Democrat.

One should never forget that Americans swear their allegiance to the Constitution, not the President!

Albion · Nov 11, 2019

jgarden said:
One should never forget that Americans swear their allegiance to the Constitution, not the President!

Of course this is true and no one is really denying it.

The idea of having some sense of loyalty to our president, whoever he is, and particularly so on the part of those who work in government has simply been reworded and recast by people who don't like this particular president in order to make a principle that all Americans once honored seem like it's now supposed to be something dishonorable.

seeking.IAM · Nov 11, 2019

jgarden said:
One should never forget that Americans swear their allegiance to the Constitution, not the President!

Do we? I've sworn my allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands. I can't recall ever swearing allegiance to the Constitution. I think only a portion of Americans have actually sworn to uphold the Constitution serving on our behalf.

Speedwell · Nov 11, 2019

seeking.IAM said:
Do we? I've sworn my allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands. I can't recall ever swearing allegiance to the Constitution. I think only a portion of Americans have actually sworn to uphold the Constitution serving on our behalf.

Anyone who has been elected or appointed to a Federal office, works for a Federal agency, serves in the military or the Peace Corps has taken a variation of that oath, swearing to "preserve and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic, bearing true faith and allegiance to the same."

Albion · Nov 11, 2019

seeking.IAM said:
Do we? I've sworn my allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands. I can't recall ever swearing allegiance to the Constitution. I think only a portion of Americans have actually sworn to uphold the Constitution serving on our behalf.

...to the extent that the rule of law has long been an honored principle among Americans, perhaps?

Of course the Constitution itself can be amended, just as with every other law, but if there is any allegiance involved with this I would think it's to the higher, larger, principle.

SimplyMe · Nov 11, 2019

Albion said:
Of course this is true and no one is really denying it.

The idea of having some sense of loyalty to our president, whoever he is, and particularly so on the part of those who work in government has simply been reworded and recast by people who don't like this particular president in order to make a principle that all Americans once honored seem like it's now supposed to be something dishonorable.

Funny, it seems to go back much further than just this president. I remember a lot of Republican complaints about Carter being elected, that they were essentially ready to move out of the country (to the point I remember a political cartoon about it).

I can remember the complaints about Clinton -- particularly (with Perot in the race) that he received less than half the popular vote -- only 43% of voters chose Clinton.

Of course, then there was the whole Florida issue with the 2000 election, with the Supreme Court, voting on partisan lines, making George Bush President.

Last, there was plenty of talk -- including here -- about how Obama was an "illegitimate President" and an "usurper," not to mention the Tea Party rallies that were basically to protest his election.

There has been little loyalty, much less respect, given to the President, by his opponents, for at least a few decades.

grasping the after wind · Nov 11, 2019

GACfan said:
As an American, do you believe that the Senate or the other branches of government should give their allegiance to a rightly duly elected President? Should you as an American? I decided to start this thread because I just read an interesting comment that implied the Senate should give their allegiance to the duly elected President, which at this time is Donald Trump. I do have my doubts, however, that this passionate sentiment would have been shared if the current President was a Democrat.

Any elected official is required to follow the Constitution. There is nothing in there about any allegiance to a person. Certainly a duly elected representative (President included) has the right to expect that those that are appointed or have been hired to do a job under the supervision of that duly elected representative (President included ) do not work to undermine that representative or work in opposition to the elected representative 's directions or fail to follow that representative's direct orders that are not illegal. As the President has no supervisory capacity in relation to the Congress or the Supreme Court, that is not an issue if either decides to oppose what the President might do or decides to ignore or act in opposition to any request the President might make of them. Just as the President has the same right in return. As for an individual citizen, no individual has any legal or moral requirement to show any allegiance to anyone or anything. People are free to show or refrain from showing allegiance at all times, to all things or all people they prefer.

GoldenBoy89 · Nov 11, 2019

Stanfordella said:
No.

Donald Trump believes he's entitled to allegiance due to his office, despite having dedicated years to systematically denigrating his duly elected predecessor, but he betrays the oath he took when sworn into office to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. He has publicly degraded our Constitution, petulantly acting aggrieved that he's not allowed to just take a Sharpie to it and amend it as he pleases.

He has hugged the American flag in a flamboyant display of patriotism, but defies the pledge of allegiance to our flag. "I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all. He has persisted with his lifetime habit of treating people as transactions, assessing them based on what can be gained for himself, and therefore regarding the parts of America that did not give him their votes with disdain. It's never "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." Last year an appreciative alumni of my college gave firefighters from Australia who'd come to California to assist in working alongside our own in combatting the hellacious wildfires traumatizing the state, and they spoke with absolute incredulity at the callous, ignorant attacks Donald Trump had lobbed and his threats to withhold federal aid. California is the most populated state in this nation under God. It's the one where half the fruits and vegetables consumed by the rest of the country are grown, the one with the largest economy. Today as Thousand Oaks in SoCal mourns the loss of 12 innocent lives massacred in the Borderline shooting one year ago, during the same week that fires blazed through forcing people on their knees in grief to flee for their lives, Trump had not a word to say. Last year he gave the obligatory comments written for him, then swiftly resumed his vitriol. He has sparked metaphorical wildfires of division and tribalism, and on a daily basis pours on the gasoline. In early 2016 a scholar on Russia at the Hoover Institution at Stanford explained at a luncheon that was actually hosted by the college Republicans how Putin would interfere in our elections later that year. That Putin's objective is not to wage war with the United States, but stoke a civil war between ourselves.

Trump demands fealty from all but gives it to none. He has attacked our intelligence communities, betrayed our trusted allies, called the American press the "enemy of the people," and demoralized our US Foreign Service to an unprecedented extent, while gushing about the "beautiful love letters" sent by the tyrannical leader of North Korea and capitulating to Putin and Erdogan. One of my professors is the former Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL, Brett McGurk, who resigned in tandem with General Mattis last December. Publicly and in class he has detailed the betrayal of Trump to our nation, writing last month that "Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief. He makes impulsive decisions with no knowledge or deliberation. He sends military personnel into harm’s way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call." Today he wrote in response to Trump's naive acquiescence to Erdogan, "I’ve worked for three presidents and participated in a number of foreign leader calls. I cannot recall a president that seems to believe — and then parrots — whatever a foreign leader tells him on the phone. Such information is often false, intended to influence more than inform."

Trump has verbally assaulted decorated soldiers for giving their allegiance to the country they dutifully served, at personal sacrifice, rather than sycophantically to him. The Four-Star admiral who organized and oversaw the raid that executed Osama Bin Laden has charactered Donald Trump as a domestic threat to our country. As he said, “When we think of dignity — the dignity of the office — it is about doing things that are moral, legal and ethical. Ethical, follow the rules. Legal, follow the law. Moral, follow what you know to be right. And my concern with President Trump is that I don’t see him following any of those on a lot of his major decisions.”

Edit. Apologies for my lack of brevity. The TL;DR is: To Donald Trump, America First is treated as America First. Our Senators and Representatives need to honor their own oaths of office and give their allegiance to the Constitution, first and foremost.

Ella, your always thoughtful and eloquent posts here always seem to find a way to rekindle my hope for our country that this is just a fleeting transitory phase we’re going through and that the best this country has to offer is still to come and not behind us.

GoldenBoy89 · Nov 11, 2019

Aryeh Jay said:
I agree! One Country, One Party, One Leader!

It sounds way cooler in German.

GoldenBoy89 · Nov 11, 2019

seeking.IAM said:
Do we? I've sworn my allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands. I can't recall ever swearing allegiance to the Constitution. I think only a portion of Americans have actually sworn to uphold the Constitution serving on our behalf.

The Constitution is what legally defines and brings into existence the republic for which the flag stands.

seeking.IAM · Nov 11, 2019

Speedwell said:
Anyone who has been elected or appointed to a Federal office, works for a Federal agency, serves in the military or the Peace Corps has taken a variation of that oath, swearing to "preserve and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic, bearing true faith and allegiance to the same."

Exactly. Not all Americans.

cow451 · Nov 11, 2019

GoldenBoy89 said:
It sounds way cooler in German.

Du hast Recht.

Allegiance to the "Duly Elected" President?

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