What did Adam and Eve not know?

DamianWarS

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The knowing or being able to judge the difference between absolute good and absolute evil, which they found out they were still unable to do even after eating the fruit, which is why God told them not to eat of it, etc, which is what made them afraid and why they hid themselves, and tried to cover up their nakedness, etc, or the shame of their nakedness, etc, and hide from God, etc, after that, etc...

The concepts were completely foreign to them at that time, (good and evil) etc, but other than that they knew quite a lot of "other things", etc, a lot of knowledge that was "lost to the ages", etc, they were not stupid before that, just innocent, etc...

It should stand as a warning to us when trying to judge or know the absolute difference between absolute good and absolute evil for absolutely sure, etc...

That kind of knowledge or knowing belongs to God alone, etc...

Satan convinced them that they could be the judges of good and evil for themselves, and they were wrong, and we are still wrong, etc, especially absolutely, and for absolutely sure, etc...

And like I said, they were not stupid, just innocent...

God Bless!
In respect to making the choice regarding the fruit how are Adam and Eve equipped to know if God's version is truth/false or if the serpent's version is truth/false? It seems they are reacting to the immediate information given to them and lack the ability to know which is truth and which is not.
 
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DamianWarS

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That verse always puzzled me. The only one who could see their nakedness was their spouse, and spouses are cool with that even now...
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Perhaps what they also saw was lust. Looking at their spouse with new eyes, or even themselves, they may have dipped into selfish desires of the flesh.

Males and females may also differ on this. I am fine with standing exposed to my wife and her to me, but after a bit of time you begin to want to hide areas you don't like, even with your spouse, because you still want to show them your best. It's get complicated so who knows what surge of feelings came over them.

If my wife and I were stuck on a deserted island we wouldn't walk around naked just because we can. And when our clothes became all tattered and worn we would try and make new clothes to avoid being naked all the time. We just desire having clothes on rather than being nude all the time.
 
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DamianWarS

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Possibly, they never noticed that their bodies were not covered. There was no reason to notice . . . maybe.

But in order for them to eat the forbidden fruit, they needed to become disobedient. And our Apostle Paul says there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," in Ephesians 2:2. So, I understand that Satan's spirit changed them from being perfect as creatures, to being degraded to be disobedient. And this evil spirit also altered how they would perceive good and evil. We see how worldly people have good and evil so mixed up. Not having something, like clothes, to them can seem evil. Rain so needed for life on this planet is considered "bad" weather, when in reality it is a blessing of God who is good.
I can agree they didn't see a need for clothing. It's not they they didn't know they were covered but it's like putting a shirt and a hat on a dog. It just looks silly, the dog doesn't really want/like it and it's just better with it off. For Adam and Eve I'm sure it was he same, sure they could put fig leaves here and there but why would you? But something after eating the fruit change this and they now desired to be covered.
 
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If my wife and I were stuck on a deserted island we wouldn't walk around naked just because we can.
If the weather and environment were conducive to it, I would.
 
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DamianWarS

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If the weather and environment were conducive to it, I would.
As a white male living in the tropics I can personally say walking around naked for any length of time on reflective sandy beaches are a bad idea (regardless who's around to see) White turns to red very quickly by the equator. Perhaps God thought of this already in Eden so it wasn't a problem (plus Adam and Eve weren't white)
 
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White turns to red very quickly by the equator.
That is one of the factors toward being conducive or not. My severely autistic daughter has no sense of modesty, but she will still get dressed if she is too cold.
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ajcarey

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v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?

They did know that following God was good and eating of the forbidden tree was evil before they fell. What they did not know was evil in terms of experience, in terms of a contrast to the good they naturally knew being innocent, pure, and having God's image fully intact before they fell. After they fell the loss of innocence and corruption which filled their soul opened their minds to impure thoughts which made continuing naked in this corrupt state as something they were not able to handle and which would only expose them to further corruption and temptation.

Consider: Daniel 2:22 "He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him."

God always knew light in terms of experience and intimacy; light always dwelt with Him and was really inherently a part of Him. When Adam and Eve walked in fellowship with God they likewise knew light by experience and intimacy, not to the degree God did, but they had a basic understanding of good which ruled their natures- natures which were not marred by darkness. When they ate from the tree they lost their innocence and their souls were marred by darkness; and THAT is how they now knew good and evil. As seen by Daniel 2:22, God knew about evil but it did not dwell with Him like light did. Now Adam and Eve knew about evil in a personal, intimate way (i.e. forbidden knowledge) AND they learned information about it to some extent that God also had known- only God could handle the information and was not defiled by it; they were overwhelmed by the information and they were indeed defiled by it. Beforehand the only evil they knew about was that if they ate from the tree they'd be transgressing God; but after they ate from the tree the spectrum of expressing evil was something their eyes were opened towards to a significant extent. Obviously man has yet expanded that expression as his rebellion against God has become more hostile and inventions of evil things have compounded with each one building upon previous inventions.
 
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DamianWarS

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That is one of the factors toward being conducive or not. My severely autistic daughter has no sense of modesty, but she will still get dressed if she is too cold.
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Maybe she has better sense being motivated by her body's needs rather than a billion other nonsense reasons. It's just too bad her logic doesn't translate well to the rest of the world.
 
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zoidar

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v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?

I take the Genesis story of Adam and Eve figuratively, true in message, in a spiritual sense. If it's a literal story I believe they did know that it was a rebellion against God, but at the same time they were tempted to be their own rulers. So they put their conscience to the back of their heads, and eat the fruit.

It was surely by a trick of the devil that mankind fell in sin. I don't believe they would have made the choice if they weren't tempted by the enemy. The fall of man means leaving God as ruler, to being in bondage with the devil. So sin came into man's heart, were it before was pure and holy. I believe the shame of nakedness, descibes man's sense of guilt.

The knowlege of good and evil, I believe is the going from being holy - not knowing it was "good" (because they didn't know anything else), to becoming depraved - being in knowledge of good and evil.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This is very abstract and metaphorical. What Adam and Eve seem to be reacting to is physical nakedness (at least a natural read) There certainly is a spiritual application but how does that relate to the physical awareness that they are naked when before it was absent unless of course you are suggesting that their knowledge of nakedness was based on the spiritual and not the physical.
Good. Yes. They reacted to , were ashamed of , their nakedness. Perhaps because they now are not 'covered'/ not innocent/ but guilty ? They have no more 'cover' of righteousness. (some have hypothesized that they were covered by "light" before they were exposed sinners - while that might be true , we don't have to say it is, nor is it necessary to know what if anything was covering them before they sinned, unless it is revealed in God's Word) ...

They were ashamed after they sinned. Since all mankind was consigned under sin from then on, all men and women from then on 'normally' are ashamed to be naked in front of others of the opposite sex. (although multitudes , even of God's people "have forgotten how to blush" (not a good thing, as God Says) ) ....
After hearing the serpent she sees the fruit is good to eat so now is looking in differently than she did before then that knowledge is passed on to Adam.
She is deceived into thinking the fruit is good to eat. Adam may have been standing with her or close by, but wherever he was, what is written? (he was not deceived, Eve was) . He sinned. He died because he sinned.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If they don't know the difference how are they to know which advice is better and then which one they should follow?
Obedience is required. THE CREATOR, their Creator, told them what to do, and what not to do. That is all that is needed.
Whoever one follows, that is their god. They chose wrong. They died.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The knowlege of good and evil, I believe is the going from being holy, not knowing it was good, to becoming depraved, being in knowlege of good and evil.
Today people are born sinners, not knowing good. By grace, through faith in Jesus , we/ they/ can come to know what is good.

Adam and Havah (Eve) started in life knowing good, not knowing sin. By disobeying, they experienced evil. They committed rebellion against God. They died.
 
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zoidar

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Today people are born sinners, not knowing good. By grace, through faith in Jesus , we/ they/ can come to know what is good.

Adam and Havah (Eve) started in life knowing good, not knowing sin. By disobeying, they experienced evil. They committed rebellion against God. They died.

I did some editing to my post. See what you think.
 
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zoidar

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Today people are born sinners, not knowing good. By grace, through faith in Jesus , we/ they/ can come to know what is good.

You are right that the depraved man doesn't know good as the holiness of God. Yet, he can know good as helping a friend is good, being honest is good. I make a destinction between good and holy. True goodness is holiness, and that doesn't the depraved man know.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The knowlege of good and evil, I believe is the going from being holy - not knowing it was "good" (because they didn't know anything else), to becoming depraved - being in knowledge of good and evil.
Perhaps the word knowledge is the culprit in a way - "experiential knowledge" is often found in the original language, I don't know if this is the case in the first chapters of Genesis or not.
Yahuweh is holy. He knew creation was good (very good). As their Creator , walking with them in the Garden, He certainly told Adam and Havah(Eve) that it was good. THey experientially know/knew it is good. THey did not have to know anything else to experientially know it was good.

Today, children raised in the way they should go, as written, have no thought to steal, lie, cheat, or hurt someone else. They do not have to experience those things to know that their lives are good in Christ Jesus, trusting in the Father, relying on the Father daily, for all things.
 
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DamianWarS

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So they put their conscience to the back of their heads, and eat the fruit.
Did they even have a conscience? I get you see in figuratively but in a vacuum does it make sense? Could they have chosen good/evil if they didn't yet understand it?
 
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DamianWarS

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Good. Yes. They reacted to , were ashamed of , their nakedness. Perhaps because they now are not 'covered'/ not innocent/ but guilty ? They have no more 'cover' of righteousness. (some have hypothesized that they were covered by "light" before they were exposed sinners - while that might be true , we don't have to say it is, nor is it necessary to know what if anything was covering them before they sinned, unless it is revealed in God's Word) ...

They were ashamed after they sinned. Since all mankind was consigned under sin from then on, all men and women from then on 'normally' are ashamed to be naked in front of others of the opposite sex. (although multitudes , even of God's people "have forgotten how to blush" (not a good thing, as God Says) ) ....

She is deceived into thinking the fruit is good to eat. Adam may have been standing with her or close by, but wherever he was, what is written? (he was not deceived, Eve was) . He sinned. He died because he sinned.
This is all good stuff but heavy on the spiritual applications over the physical. Does this point to viewing the literal details (with literal meaning) as somewhat missing the point and (at least in this account) we should favour the spiritual applications of the text. I'm not trying to explain away the bible, but in these early creation accounts, at least with the fall, it seems it to apply based on how your approaching the text.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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This is all good stuff but heavy on the spiritual applications over the physical. Does this point to viewing the literal details (with literal meaning) as somewhat missing the point and (at least in this account) we should favour the spiritual applications of the text. I'm not trying to explain away the bible, but in these early creation accounts, at least with the fall, it seems it to apply based on how your approaching the text.
Why apply it based on how the text is approached?

Ask the Father in heaven for His Understanding of Scripture ! (how many times is it written, that is the only way anyone truly understand?, AND, how many times the Father and the Son REVEALED / GRANTED understanding - opened the minds to understand - opened the eyes to see ? )
Literal details are no obstacle to understanding Scripture.
Figurative use also is no obstacle to understanding Scripture.

The obstacle is man - mankind - religion - trying with man's ways of thinking to understand/ to interpret what is not needing interpretation. They change literal to figurative and figurative to literal at times, contrary to the Father's desires.

Just enjoy reading the Bible - it is LIGHT and LIFE ! And the FATHER in heaven is DELIGHTED to freely without reproach GIVE and GRANT HIS meaning - HIS understanding of what HE had written.
See in the Bible over and over and over HOW Yahuweh Sovereign Creator Almighty
says to do things, and keep on seeking His Kingdom, His Way, always. In constant conversation with Him ('prayer' - talking to Him, laying everything before Him, to learn from Him, listening to Him, as we read His Word especially asking Him to open our minds and our eyes, to show us what is true and right - HE IS FAITHFUL and SAYS SO) .....
 
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zoidar

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This is all good stuff but heavy on the spiritual applications over the physical. Does this point to viewing the literal details (with literal meaning) as somewhat missing the point and (at least in this account) we should favour the spiritual applications of the text. I'm not trying to explain away the bible, but in these early creation accounts, at least with the fall, it seems it to apply based on how your approaching the text.

Maybe the knowlege of good and evil means experiencing that in the heart and spirit? Maybe they had the ability to dicern good and evil before the fall. It's hard to know. I don't think God would judge them for something if they didn't know it was wrong.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Genesis 4:7 If you do what is right, you will be accepted ...

https://biblehub.com › genesis

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have .... And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in ...


Study Bible

Cain and Abel
…6“Why are you angry,” said the LORD to Cain, “and why has your countenance fallen? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted(you will be accepted if you do what is right)

? But if you refuse to do what is right,

sin is crouching at your door; you are its object of desire, but

you must master it.”
Berean Study Bible · Download
====================================
Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or

to obedience leading to righteousness?
---------------------------
James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.

15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death. 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.…
Berean Study Bible · Download
 
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