What did Adam and Eve not know?

DamianWarS

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v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit.
Simple.

They had unbelief - they did not believe (know) that they would die. They were tricked into thinking that they could know a secret if they disobeyed. They disobeyed. They died.
 
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Jonaitis

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Satan told her a lie, that the fruit would make them like God.

The forbidden fruit was not in and of itself sinful, nor did it have some sort of "powers." It was a sign and statute, and the name represented the experience of breaching that commandment. If they ate of what God clearly forbade, they would know what it is like to fall out of state of innocence. They would know good and evil, and be aware of their fallen condition before God.

Call a brothel a house of misery.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil?
As Yahuweh Created them, innocent, they had no shame. There was nothing to be ashamed of. They were innocent until they disobeyed.

It is written that we people are naked before Yahuweh 'automatically' from birth, and must be clothed/ covered with righteousness if we ever want to see heaven.

We cannot accomplish that ("with man it is impossible") .

So Yahuweh Provided The Way: Jesus. If we turn to Yahuweh Sovereign Creator as Jesus said to the people , because His Kingdom is here, at hand, THEN
HE may grant us the power to become sons of Yahuweh. (1 John, etc ) .

We may be covered/ clothed/ not naked any longer, before Yahuweh and His Throne.

This is Yahuweh's Doing, and it is Marveous !
 
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Aussie Pete

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v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?
All they had to do was obey a very simple command. Try explaining to a child why he should not stick a knife into a toaster. "Electricity will kill you". He does not know what electricity is, let alone what it means to be dead. He will have to take your word for it. Adam and Eve were innocent like children. So they needed to obey because they should obey, because God commanded it. It was the only instruction they had. It really was not that hard.
 
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Neogaia777

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v4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

what exactly did Adam and Even "not know" before eating the fruit. The serpent tells them if they eat the fruit they will know the difference between good and evil... do we accept this? After they ate it, they knew they were naked. being naked is neither good/evil yet Adam and Eve knew they were naked after eating the fruit and before it seems they did not. To me this seems to be about either shame or the lust of being naked that they experienced. They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.

so how does Adam and Eve knowing they were naked connect with them knowing good and evil? if they didn't know good and evil how were they to know that following God was good and following the serpent was evil?
The knowing or being able to judge the difference between absolute good and absolute evil, which they found out they were still unable to do even after eating the fruit, which is why God told them not to eat of it, etc, which is what made them afraid and why they hid themselves, and tried to cover up their nakedness, etc, or the shame of their nakedness, etc, and hide from God, etc, after that, etc...

The concepts were completely foreign to them at that time, (good and evil) etc, but other than that they knew quite a lot of "other things", etc, a lot of knowledge that was "lost to the ages", etc, they were not stupid before that, just innocent, etc...

It should stand as a warning to us when trying to judge or know the absolute difference between absolute good and absolute evil for absolutely sure, etc...

That kind of knowledge or knowing belongs to God alone, etc...

Satan convinced them that they could be the judges of good and evil for themselves, and they were wrong, and we are still wrong, etc, especially absolutely, and for absolutely sure, etc...

And like I said, they were not stupid, just innocent...

God Bless!
 
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Sabertooth

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v7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.
That verse always puzzled me. The only one who could see their nakedness was their spouse, and spouses are cool with that even now...
full
 
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Neogaia777

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That verse always puzzled me. The only one who could see their nakedness was their spouse, and spouses are cool with that even now...
full
And God could see it, and they were so confounded and confused after that, and unsure of themselves for the very first time, etc, that it probably overwhelmed them, overtook them, etc...

And it still should now, unless you think you are God, etc...

That is (also) part of the carefully laid trap, etc...

God Bless!
 
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royal priest

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Their nakedness was the sense of having their guilt and shame exposed to God. The eyes of their conscience and heart were opened now to the knowledge of how evil their transgression was and of how good God will be in His retribution upon them. Hence they hid themselves from God in expectant terror.
 
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Sabertooth

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Their nakedness was the sense of having their guilt and shame exposed to God. The eyes of their conscience and heart were opened now to the knowledge of how evil their transgression was and of how good God will be in His retribution upon them. Hence they hid themselves from God in expectant terror.
Fair enough, but it doesn't explain the selective coverage of their figwear. Why would they be only ashamed of their privates and not their hands, feet & faces? (It was their hands & faces that carried out the Sin in question.)

Just like any other 18 month-old, my 25yo ward/daughter does not make any distinction between her privates and her [non-privates?]. (She will still get dressed when reminded.) I wonder why the shame of their sin was limited to just their privates.
 
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com7fy8

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They always knew their bodies weren't covered but something was different after eating the fruit that uncovered bodies meant something else.
Possibly, they never noticed that their bodies were not covered. There was no reason to notice . . . maybe.

But in order for them to eat the forbidden fruit, they needed to become disobedient. And our Apostle Paul says there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," in Ephesians 2:2. So, I understand that Satan's spirit changed them from being perfect as creatures, to being degraded to be disobedient. And this evil spirit also altered how they would perceive good and evil. We see how worldly people have good and evil so mixed up. Not having something, like clothes, to them can seem evil. Rain so needed for life on this planet is considered "bad" weather, when in reality it is a blessing of God who is good.
 
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royal priest

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Fair enough, but it doesn't explain the selective coverage of their figwear. Why would they be only ashamed of their privates and not their hands, feet & faces? (It was their hands & faces that carried out the Sin in question.)
The Bible doesn't tell us what they covered. Even if they had covered every inch of their body, it would not have relieved them of their guilt and shame. Only God's provision of animal skins would do that through His promise of Eve's seed.
 
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Sabertooth

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The Bible doesn't tell us what they covered. Even if they had covered every inch of their body, it would not have relieved them of their guilt and shame.
The inspired traditions (that Moses eventually published) give it a narrower scope.
 
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Neogaia777

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Fair enough, but it doesn't explain the selective coverage of their figwear. Why would they be only ashamed of their privates and not their hands, feet & faces? (It was their hands & faces that carried out the Sin in question.)
OK, I'll walk into this one...

Maybe it was because it was their "most private parts" of themselves, the part that might have been affected by the source of their newfound fear, anxiety, paranoia, and uncertainty, etc, that was so very shaming to them that took the "fear" to a "whole new level" maybe, possibly, etc... Couldn't bear for God to see it (but He already knew anyway) or stand to stand before God with it, etc, how foolish they had become in their own eyes and might have thought in God's own eyes as well maybe, and feared that also, etc, maybe...? Maybe...?

But what did God do...? Well, he had to banish them from the Garden, yes, and/but He also had to show them the "cost" of what He was about to do for them, which was to make more permanent coverings for them, that would cost "death", and would show them death and dying for the first time, or something living and alive and that had a soul having to die, and (innocent) blood having to be shed for the very first time, to more permanently cover the shame of their nakedness, or exposure, etc...

All because they thought they could and should be the judges of good and evil for themselves, and were tempted and duped by the desire to become God or like gods themselves...

And the curse fell to us now, etc, thank you very much Adam and Eve (and that damn serpent), etc...

We are mere men, and in no way shape or form can ever be any true good judges of, especially "absolute" good and "absolute" evil for ourselves, ever, and people who think they can or should or are, are probably on their way to hell, or will wind up there in the end, etc...

Luckily, the fear of God is supposed to be the beginning of (true) wisdom...

God Bless!
 
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Sabertooth

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OK, I'll walk into this one...

Maybe it was because...
It isn't incumbent on you to formulate a rationale. I feel the same sense of modesty, myself, but it still strikes me as illogical. And I believe it on its face value, but its mechanism still eludes me.
 
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Neogaia777

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OK, I'll walk into this one...

Maybe it was because it was their "most private parts" of themselves, the part that might have been affected by the source of their newfound fear, anxiety, paranoia, and uncertainty, etc, that was so very shaming to them that took the "fear" to a "whole new level" maybe, possibly, etc... Couldn't bear for God to see it (but He already knew anyway) or stand to stand before God with it, etc, how foolish they had become in their own eyes and might have thought in God's own eyes as well maybe, and feared that also, etc, maybe...? Maybe...?

But what did God do...? Well, he had to banish them from the Garden, yes, and/but He also had to show them the "cost" of what He was about to do for them, which was to make more permanent coverings for them, that would cost "death", and would show them death and dying for the first time, or something living and alive and that had a soul having to die, and (innocent) blood having to be shed for the very first time, to more permanently cover the shame of their nakedness, or exposure, etc...

All because they thought they could and should be the judges of good and evil for themselves, and were tempted and duped by the desire to become God or like gods themselves...

And the curse fell to us now, etc, thank you very much Adam and Eve (and that damn serpent), etc...

We are mere men, and in no way shape or form can ever be any true good judges of, especially "absolute" good and "absolute" evil for ourselves, ever, and people who think they can or should or are, are probably on their way to hell, or will wind up there in the end, etc...

Luckily, the fear of God is supposed to be the beginning of (true) wisdom...

God Bless!
And there is another aspect to this as well... In order to be like God, or what is involved in being tempted to be like God, you had to identify/relate/associate with "everything" basically, "everyone and everything everywhere", until you learned who you were and who and what you were and were not, etc, also a new experience for them, etc, that even further intensified the fear to "whole other new levels", etc, and that fears "side effects", etc, until you would learn who and what you were and were not for sure, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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It isn't incumbent on you to formulate a rationale. I feel the same sense of modesty, myself, but it still strikes me as illogical. And I believe it on its face value, but its mechanism still eludes me.
It is a bit illogical, until you are faced with what they were faced with anyway... Then logic, sense, reason, etc, goes right out the window sometimes, etc... And is out of your control, etc...

God Bless!
 
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DamianWarS

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As Yahuweh Created them, innocent, they had no shame. There was nothing to be ashamed of. They were innocent until they disobeyed.

It is written that we people are naked before Yahuweh 'automatically' from birth, and must be clothed/ covered with righteousness if we ever want to see heaven.

We cannot accomplish that ("with man it is impossible") .

So Yahuweh Provided The Way: Jesus. If we turn to Yahuweh Sovereign Creator as Jesus said to the people , because His Kingdom is here, at hand, THEN
HE may grant us the power to become sons of Yahuweh. (1 John, etc ) .

We may be covered/ clothed/ not naked any longer, before Yahuweh and His Throne.

This is Yahuweh's Doing, and it is Marveous !
This is very abstract and metaphorical. What Adam and Eve seem to be reacting to is physical nakedness (at least a natural read) There certainly is a spiritual application but how does that relate to the physical awareness that they are naked when before it was absent unless of course you are suggesting that their knowledge of nakedness was based on the spiritual and not the physical.
 
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DamianWarS

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All they had to do was obey a very simple command. Try explaining to a child why he should not stick a knife into a toaster. "Electricity will kill you". He does not know what electricity is, let alone what it means to be dead. He will have to take your word for it. Adam and Eve were innocent like children. So they needed to obey because they should obey, because God commanded it. It was the only instruction they had. It really was not that hard.
Adam and Eve received two narratives about eating the fruit. It's no so much simply obeying God but did they have the tools to know that God's truth was good and the serpent's truth was evil?

If they don't know the difference how are they to know which advice is better and then which one they should follow?

What we see played out is Eve responding to the most recent information she has, first God tells her not to eat the fruit, then the serpent tells her something else. After hearing the serpent she sees the fruit is good to eat so now is looking in differently than she did before then that knowledge is passed on to Adam. Since they are unable to tell the difference between good and evil this information can only be told to them but they have no critical thinking ability to make the right choice themselves.
 
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