The Devil Adores the Christian Soldier

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I really am surprised you don't know this.

(or is this just satire, or rhetorical questions? )

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I'm asking Brinny's opinion, since he's making a point of "innocent blood."

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I was referring more to the fact or potential that weak Christians might be persuaded to join the military, without even realizing what they might be or would be told to do. (like some thought they would get a job in a hospital, and just get to fix people up - never have to face the enemy).

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This is something I learned in the military, stationed overseas on the other side of the planet: People who say they'd never be tempted are people for whom Satan has not yet made a sin easy enough and cheap enough.

A man who sits in his office in Peoria, IL, and thinks he'd never be tempted to cheat on his wife has not yet spent a year on the other side of the planet where sex is plentiful, where lovely women are calling out to him every day, where an entire night with one would cost no more than lunch money, where everyone he's working with is indulging freely, and where there is zero chance that anyone who knows him will ever find out. He might never have been tempted while in Peoria, IL, but he will be tempted then.

That's one reason a Christian needs to be part of a church and buddied-up with someone else who is strong in Christ.

brinny said:

See post #89 in reference to the post i was responding to.

My point is, is it a sin to for instance be a police officer (or a soldier) etc? The question regarding "innocent blood" is referring to the "shedding of blood" without cause, thus "innocent blood" such as Abel's blood that cried out to God after his brother Cain slew him. The question is, did Cain shed innocent blood?

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What makes a "good cause?"

Is it a good cause if the nation's leaders go into war in stupidity or avarice? Is it a good cause if the real reason for a war is to maintain the wealth of the wealthy?

What is the moral position of the soldier in that case?

During the Gulf War, I was one of the persons in the targeting cell responsible for the destruction of the Amiriyah bunker in Baghdad. If you read the Wikipedia account, there is a brief mention of the building having certain military communication radio antennae...I was the person who identified those antennae on the building from reconnaissance imagery.

Several hundred women and children were in that bunker, something I didn't realize at the time.

Something else I didn't know then, but learned soon afterward, is that the reason the US was involved in that war at all was for the protection of Saudi Arabia and economic interests of certain oil businessmen. In all other ways, political and economic, the US should never have gotten involved.

If you had your time over again would you have taken an active role in the military?

brinny said: ↑
See post #89 in reference to the post i was responding to.

My point is, is it a sin to for instance be a police officer (or a soldier) etc? The question regarding "innocent blood" is referring to the "shedding of blood" without cause, thus "innocent blood" such as Abel's blood that cried out to God after his brother Cain slew him. The question is, did Cain shed innocent blood?

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is partly right briny...

also note the Scripture says "innocent" blood, not someone pagan, heathen, etc .....
Those in the Apocalypse (Revelation) who are reported to ask for the ALMIGHTY to execute HIS VENGEANCE , are innocent ones, believers, martyred for their faith.

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If someone (anyone) is murdered "without cause", their blood is "innocent" in that instance.

In other words they were murdered "in cold blood". This is abominable to God.

NO ONE "deserves" to be murdered "in cold blood", even if they ARE Pagan, etc.

It's an abomination to God to do such a thing.

brinny said:

If someone (anyone) is murdered "without cause", their blood is "innocent" in that instance.

In other words they were murdered "in cold blood". This is abominable to God.

NO ONE "deserves" to be murdered "in cold blood", even if they ARE Pagan, etc.

It's an abomination to God to do such a thing.

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Perhaps, maybe no worries per se,

but that is most likely not what Yahuweh means by innocent blood in the Apocalypse, and I thought the question was first brought up about the Scriptural meaning.

brinny said: ↑
If someone (anyone) is murdered "without cause", their blood is "innocent" in that instance.

In other words they were murdered "in cold blood". This is abominable to God.

NO ONE "deserves" to be murdered "in cold blood", even if they ARE Pagan, etc.

It's an abomination to God to do such a thing.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

Perhaps, maybe no worries per se,

but that is most likely not what Yahuweh means by innocent blood in the Apocalypse, and I thought the question was first brought up about the Scriptural meaning.

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i'm referring to what is written all throughout God's Word.

Regarding "soldiers", one has to ask oneself, bottom line, if it is a "sin" to be a "soldier"?

Carl Emerson said:

If you had your time over again would you have taken an active role in the military?

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I've had the opportunity to browse the CIA library.

Presuming I could know then what I know now, about both my faith and the US, probably not.

Although, again, the experience of having been member a corps like the military has given me insight on what being in a corps like the Body of Christ ought be, which is something most civilians don't understand. There is not a question of "does a Christian have to be a member of a church?" for someone who knows what being a member of a corps means.

brinny said:

i'm referring to what is written all throughout God's Word.

Regarding "soldiers", one has to ask oneself, bottom line, if it is a "sin" to be a "soldier"?

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That question is simple, no. Neither Jesus nor Yochanan the immerser told the soldiers to stop being soldiers , not all the time any way. But their lives were totally changed if they were immersed.

All throughout Yahuweh's Word (God's Word), innocent blood does not refer to the heathen nations (gentiles in the OT) , or that is their blood was not usually, if ever , called innocent blood. Quite the contrary - they were often to be wiped out.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

That question is simple, no. Neither Jesus nor Yochanan the immerser told the soldiers to stop being soldiers , not all the time any way. But their lives were totally changed if they were immersed.

All throughout Yahuweh's Word (God's Word), innocent blood does not refer to the heathen nations (gentiles in the OT) , or that is their blood was not usually, if ever , called innocent blood. Quite the contrary - they were often to be wiped out.

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It is GOD Who makes that judgement, not "man".

What is "sin"? What does God abhor (hate)?

It's the very same sin that condemned Lucifer AKA Satan. It is "willfulness", "pride". Which is the very root of disobedience.

It's rebellion. It is written that rebellion is as "witchcraft".

The bottom line, is that the "fear of God" is what KEEPS us from those sins. It is a necessity to "humble" ourselves before the living God, in order to "fear" Him.

A "Christian soldier" is a soldier who KNOWS that it is GOD he answers to, and God will surely grant him wisdom and discernment regarding the authority of those over him.

To take the life of ANYONE without cause (Pagan, etc. or not) IS murdering in "cold blood". It's NOT "our" call to make. It's the shedding of "innocent blood".

Weapons are not evil. Neither is self defense. It is righteous to defend against tyranny, etc. and "just". We are admonished to, all throughout God's Word. When we see evil about to victimize anyone, or laws that do the same, we are to defend those under that evil hand, and to speak out for those who cannot defend nor speak out for themselves. To turn our head, IS evil, and we will be accountable for it.

brinny said:

It is GOD Who makes that judgement, not "man".

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Man often makes judgments. Usually opposed to God.

For Ekklessia, as written, we are supposed to judge righteously - agree with God's Judgment.

brinny said:

To take the life of ANYONE (Pagan, etc. or not) IS murdering in "cold blood". It's NOT "our" call to make. It's the shedding of "innocent blood".

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I thought you just said it is God's Judgment to make ? Not mine nor yours ?

This description you give does not match what God says all through the Old Testament, and maybe parts of the New Testament as well.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I thought you just said it is God's Judgment to make ? Not mine nor yours ?

This description you give does not match what God says all through the Old Testament, and maybe parts of the New Testament as well.

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Are you chopping up my post (#110 )?

Read the entire post. It covers ALL of what you are asking.

brinny said:

Are you chopping up my post (#110 )?

Read the entire post. It covers ALL of what you are asking.

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No I'm not chopping up your post. If I missed something when I read it, I'm sorry. Point it out clearly.

Examples concerning "innocent" blood shed :

"Cities of Refuge
…9and if you carefully keep all these commandments I am giving you today, loving the LORD your God and walking in His ways at all times, then you are to add three more cities to these three. 10 Thus innocent blood will not be shed in the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed. 11If, however, a man hates his neighbor and lies in wait, attacks him and kills him, and then flees to one of these cities,…

Berean Study Bible · Download
Cross References
Numbers 35:33
Do not pollute the land where you live, for bloodshed pollutes the land, and no atonement can be made for the land on which the blood is shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it."


Matthew Henry Commentary
19:1-13 Here is the law settled between the blood of the murdered, and the blood of the murderer; provision is made, that the cities of refuge should be a protection, so that a man should not die for that as a crime, which was not his willing act. In Christ, the Lord our Righteousness, refuge is provided for those who by faith flee unto him. But there is no refuge in Jesus Christ for presumptuous sinners, who go on still in their trespasses. Those who flee to Christ from their sins, shall be safe in him, but not those who expect to be sheltered by him in their sins.
Deuteronomy 19:10 Commentaries

yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is an entirely different question. Usually no. Most people do not have the discipline to resist doing evil in the military. Instead of salt, they turn worldly, rather easily.

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That is a problem for whatever profession a Christian goes into. We Christians are not supposed to be in a cave. Our Lord called us to be salt and light in the world. Compromising with the world is always a problem.

Maybe the reason most do not have the discipline to resist the evil in the world is because they are not really living under His grace. The majority of Christians in Hindu, Muslim, and Communist countries are facing imprisonment, persecution, imprisonment, and even death for the sake of Christ. Is it too much discipline for us here to resist raping and pillaging?

dzheremi said:

The cause of peace is a noble goal, but I would ask you seriously: Do Christians cease to be Christians when they become soldiers? Because there are 2,000 years give or take of evidence to the contrary, St. George, St. Theodore El Shatby, the entire Theban Legion, St. Philopateer Mercurios, etc. all bearing witness.

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The interesting thing about most or all the persons you mentioned is that sooner or later their military service conflicted with their faith, and thus they were martyred.

You prove wrong your own point.

SteveIndy said:

And, you seem to be forgetting that the O.T. has been overridden by the rewriting of the last will and testament. Hebrews 9:16-17 "In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living." The Old (last will and) Testament was rewritten by the Testator, i.e. Jesus, then the Testator died. The O.T. that you and others love to quote to justify killing their enemies will get you thrown out of court if you try and use it on that fateful day when you stand before the Great Judge.

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God doesn't change. And he doesn't throw people out for any sin but unbelief.