The Devil Adores the Christian Soldier

B8t6 said:

Which covenant are you following the old covenant or the new covenant ? Do you understand the difference because its the reason Jesus said this

Matthew 5:43-48 King James Version (KJV)
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

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Jesus is coming back as a soldier.

RDKirk said:

So how about if all people in the military take up Doss' example and refuse to pick up a gun?

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Then they will all be dead or ex military...

Yes and those who take up the sword
and kill with the sword must be killed with the sword according to Jesus, his words by way

Revelation 13:10-18 King James Version (KJV)

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Carl Emerson said:

Rom 12
1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

The implication of the OP is that soldiers serve Satan.

This would suggest governing authorities are Satanic.

The bible does not support this.

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I would not go this far. The Nazi Germany government was definitely Satanic. So was the Soviet Union, and Iran.

Just looking it offhand, I wonder if Paul was talking about the governing authorities within the church, and not secular authorities. There are times that Christians must not subject to the secular authorities. For the first three centuries, there were sporadic persecutions against Christians by the civil rulers. They definitely did not subject themselves to the civil authorities when it conflicted with the authority of Christ.

packermann said:

I would not go this far. The Nazi Germany government was definitely Satanic. So was the Soviet Union, and Iran.

Just looking it offhand, I wonder if Paul was talking about the governing authorities within the church, and not secular authorities. There are times that Christians must not subject to the secular authorities. For the first three centuries, there were sporadic persecutions against Christians by the civil rulers. They definitely did not subject themselves to the civil authorities when it conflicted with the authority of Christ.

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1 Peter is extremely important to us in understanding our relationship to the world as ambassadors of Heaven. I consider 1 Peter the "field manual" for ambassadors of heaven, because it first delineates our ambassadorship: What is our true nation and what is our assignment to the world. Then it gives in detail how we should relate in various situations to those who are of the world.

Part of 1 Peter sounds like a repeat of Ephesians, but it's not the same thing. Ephesians gives instructions for Christians dealing with Christians. 1 Peter gives instructions for Christians dealing with unbelievers.

1 Peter also tells us to submit to the king and not to rebel against him. But 1 Peter makes it more clear that we are to counter our surrounding culture as necessary to obey God, but to accept the king's authority to deal with our disobedience to him as the king sees fit.

And this is how the early Christians operated. They did not rebel as the slave Spartacus had done a hundred years earlier. They provided due apologetics in court to explain why they disobeyed the king, but accepted their sentences.

And yet...within 300 years Christianity had grown to 25 percent of the population of Rome and by the time of Constantine, it was clear that Christianity could not be exterminated.

renniks said:

Then they will all be dead or ex military...

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I don't think so. Here is something that happened:

When the Soviet Union was collapsing, at one point the leaders in the Kremlin ordered the Red Army to open fire on protestors in the streets. The soldiers refused.

I watched the same thing happen when I was in the Philippines during the "People's Rebellion" against Ferdiand Marcos. The soldiers refused.

It would be interesting to see all the Christian soldiers in the US military get filled with the Holy Spirit and refuse to go to war for Saudi Arabia.

I think we are talking about two separate issues...

Firstly Rom 12:3 is a reference in context to civil not Church authority.
He works through such authorities against evil.
He describes this as an avenger with His authority and sanctions the bearing of arms. We depend on this in civil life.

Secondly National authorities can be corrupted, e.g. the Roman Empire, Germany etc.

But it is up to individual conscience whether one bears arms on their behalf. He will guide you on this matter.

I was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war but would not hesitate to bear arms against terrorism...

dzheremi said:

Does a person's Christianity sort of flicker in and out of existence in accordance with whether or not they are doing what is right at any given time?

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For some they think it does because they think Christians are only those that live the way they do, those types are hypocrites. They have a very wrong idea of Christianity just like the Sadducees had the wrong ideas. God save us from those who think they have great knowledge of Christianity and can tell others what they are doing wrong

David Neos said:

Total Pacifism is not in line with the history of the Church.

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Total Pacifism exist only in the minds of those who know next to nothing

B8t6 said:

Yes and those who take up the sword
and kill with the sword must be killed with the sword according to Jesus, his words by way

Revelation 13:10-18 King James Version (KJV)

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

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This is referring to the shedding of innocent blood, which God abhors (hates). It is written in the seven abominations that God abhors (hates) that God despises the shedding of innocent blood.

brinny said:

This is referring to the shedding of innocent blood, which God abhors (hates). It is written in the seven abominations that God abhors (hates) that God despises the shedding of innocent blood.

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Is any soldier "innocent blood?" If so, then which ones? In all the European wars between Christian nations with Christians on both sides, which ones were self-defense? Whose was the innocent blood?

RDKirk said:

Is any soldier "innocent blood?" If so, then which ones? In all the European wars between Christian nations with Christians on both sides, which ones were self-defense? Whose was the innocent blood?

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I really am surprised you don't know this.

(or is this just satire, or rhetorical questions? )

yeshuaslavejeff said:

This is an entirely different question. Usually no. Most people do not have the discipline to resist doing evil in the military. Instead of salt, they turn worldly, rather easily.

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It is not a matter of being disciplined. It is being a Christian! In most places in the world Christian have to choose Christ and what is right or persecution and even death. This is happening in Hindu, Muslim, and Communistic lands. We are soft in western countries - Christians here compromise with the world and we say that the Christians just lack a little discipline. They cannot even resist raping and pillaging. Well, I do not believe someone can be involved in rape and still be under the grace of God. If they turn to rape and pillaging rather easily then they are not saved at all.

packermann said:

It is not a matter of being disciplined. It is being a Christian!

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I was referring more to the fact or potential that weak Christians might be persuaded to join the military, without even realizing what they might be or would be told to do. (like some thought they would get a job in a hospital, and just get to fix people up - never have to face the enemy).

yeshuaslavejeff said:

May God Help us all, also, if our military IS NOT FILLED only with atheists and heathen!

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Not sure what this means.

packermann said:

Not sure what this means.

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Referring to both, that and the one being replied to,
it means

"MAY GOD HELP US"

no matter if our military is filled with atheists and heathen,
or if our military is not filled with atheists and heathen.

RDKirk said:

Is any soldier "innocent blood?" If so, then which ones? In all the European wars between Christian nations with Christians on both sides, which ones were self-defense? Whose was the innocent blood?

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It is an individual choice to support a war effort or not.

God will judge individual actions.

If John the Baptist is to be believed as one who prepared the way for the new covenant, it is important to make sure you conduct yourself honourably as a soldier. Luke 3:14

Can there be any honor at all, in disobeying Jesus !?

brinny said: ↑
This is referring to the shedding of innocent blood, which God abhors (hates). It is written in the seven abominations that God abhors (hates) that God despises the shedding of innocent blood.

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RDKirk said:

Is any soldier "innocent blood?" If so, then which ones? In all the European wars between Christian nations with Christians on both sides, which ones were self-defense? Whose was the innocent blood?

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See post #89 in reference to the post i was responding to.

My point is, is it a sin to for instance be a police officer (or a soldier) etc? The question regarding "innocent blood" is referring to the "shedding of blood" without cause, thus "innocent blood" such as Abel's blood that cried out to God after his brother Cain slew him. The question is, did Cain shed innocent blood?

brinny said:

See post #89 in reference to the post i was responding to.

My point is, is it a sin to for instance be a police officer (or a soldier) etc? The question regarding "innocent blood" is referring to the "shedding of blood" without cause, thus "innocent blood" such as Abel's blood that cried out to God after his brother Cain slew him. The question is, did Cain shed innocent blood?

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This is partly right briny...

also note the Scripture says "innocent" blood, not someone pagan, heathen, etc .....
Those in the Apocalypse (Revelation) who are reported to ask for the ALMIGHTY to execute HIS VENGEANCE , are innocent ones, believers, martyred for their faith.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Can there be any honor at all, in disobeying Jesus !?

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This is classic elevating certain words above the whole of God's word.

Scripture interprets itself.

Verses don't interpret scripture.

Spending years in the word and getting the big picture is critical.

Your comment implies levels of inspiration rather than seeing scripture as wholly inspired.

Disobeying Jesus is about refusing His living voice within. This is why it becomes a matter of personal conviction rather than a blanket demand which is to return to Law.