Do Dispensationalists share in the guilt of bloodshed related to Israel?

Semper-Fi said:

This does not say the N.T. Church is Israel.
He was a physical decendent of Abraham.
Paul also said

Unto which promise our [twelve tribes],
instantly serving God day and night,
hope to come. For which hope's sake,
king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Paul says that his hope to come, is in the
promises given to the twelve tribes.
When was Christs church split into 12 ?

"But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,"
-

Abraham’s son was Isaac, and Isaac’s son
was Jacob, whose name God later changed to
Israel. The Jews descended from this lineage.

A small remnant of the "house of Judah"
(Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) returned to
Jerusalem to rebuild the city and temple.

The Jewish historian Josephus said this is when
all those in the land of Jerusalem/Judah began
to call themselves by the title of 'Jew' which
came from the name of the tribe of Judah.

So Jews are Israelites. But not all Israelites
are Jews. Israel had 12 sons, one of whom
was Judah. Then God specially blessed the
tribe of Joseph and Joseph’s two sons, there
were actually 12 tribes besides Judah.

For, lo, I will command, and I will sift [the house
of Israel] among [all nations], like as corn is sifted
in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon
the earth”

the house of Israel was sifted among all nations
To see a few Israelites also Jews in Jerusalem,
at the time of Gods apointed feasts was common.
-

“And I will wait upon the Lord, [that hideth
his face] from the house of Jacob"

The state of Israel today is missleading,
They are made-up of Judah, Benjamin,
and Levi decendents. This would be the
House of Judah, Not the house of Isreal.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the
lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of
the house of Israel.

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Biblewriter said:

This is TOTALLY false. I have posted MUCH of it, right in this very thread.

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JacksBratt said:

Sorry, but I don't understand this view..or your question.

Christ died for all. It should be preached to all nations, even Israel.

I believe that we love all nations. Not just those that accept the gospel... Many Jews accept the messiah, many don't... This is the same among the gentiles... We still love them and support any nation trying to achieve peace.

We know the plan that God has for His people... 144,000 will repent and recognize their messiah.

How is their any issue?

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Nige55 said:

Funnily enough had a similar discussion on this topic at the weekend. There were some slightly differing understandings, but the bottom line was - the promises apply because God himself was responsible for the veil, and the hardening in part. I guess I kind of see it like they've been grounded, but at the right time will have that lifted.
I see lots of confusions over this being 2 gospels, - it's not,it's 1 gospel but 2 distinct plans.
Another confusion that I see widely used is the 'synagogue of satan' verse misquoted very clearly out of context. My Church is currently studying those very letters to the Churches in Revelation, and reading the letter before made it very clear how people misuse or misunderstand that verse. Anyway, that's getting slightly off topic.
The discussion ventured into witnessing to the Jews, and how it relates to that veil. I believe that the verse on Making them jealous of Christ (as Dave posted in early posts) answers this.

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Nige55 said:

I brought this topic up in another thread recently, and you refused to go into it for being off topic. I've been through this before with you,- you are hung up on the topic of circumcision. The letters to the churches make it abundantly clear what it means when it references those who claim to be Jews, but are not. You've previously struggled to accept the concept of Jews existing post calvary, and yet we have direct references to, and about the Jews after this (including those very letters!).
Regarding the 'Jesus is Israel' stance, you've still yet to deal with the question of how can 'all Israel be saved', - how does Jesus save himself, - from himself ? How would the gentiles make Jesus jealous of himself ?
I really pray that you see through this muddle you seem to be in Dave.

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Biblewriter said:

If circumcision was abolished at the cross, why did Paul do this?

1 Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. 2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek. Acts 16:1-3

What was abolished at the cross was "the law of commandments contained in ordinances." (Ephesians 2:15) Circumcision is MUCH older than the law of Moses.

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JacksBratt said:

I'm assuming that, somehow, you don't agree with Israels right to protect itself...


All I understand is that Israel, as a sovereign state, country, is in perfect right to protect itself.

You choose....

A group firing random bombs into your country's schools and villages...

Answered by surgical hits on caches of these bombs.... with days of warnings to the foe that they will do these attacks..

All the while, the bombs are stored in schools and churches....a war crime.


What would the US do if Mexico or Canada started firing rockets into the cities and villages of the US? Would they have the right to retaliate?

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