The Devil Adores the Christian Soldier

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

80 percent of the US military confesses Christianity. What if every one of them stood down because of how the country uses them for evil purposes?[/QUOTE]
There'd be more peace ?

Interesting.

Leonard Ravenhill quote: I doubt if 5% of professing ...
[Search domain www.azquotes.com/quote/1275904] Leonard Ravenhill Quote
I doubt if 5% of professing Christians in America are born again-and... - Leonard Ravenhill quotes at AZquotes.com

Here's how "Christians" are hypocrites! | Page 7 | Christian ...
[Search domain www.christianforums.com/threads/heres-how-christians-are-hypocrites.8053595/page-7] Here's how "Christians" are hypocrites!

Mar 10, 2018From the last century, a quiote of Leonard Ravenhill: "I doubt if 5% of professing Christians in America are born again--and that's true of England!"...

Are there more false Christians than we think? | Christian Forums

[Search domain www.christianforums.com/threads/are-there-more-false-christians-than-we-think.8095587/] Are there more false Christians than we think?
Dec 27, 2018The Bible says in Matthew 7:13 that the path to God is narrow and far more people take the path to destruction. But US censuses say the US is over 70% Christian. If the Bible is true, that could mean there are more false Christians than we think.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
You seem not to have read my full post.

Does it change anything ?

edit in:
(COOL! GOOD! ) I went back to follow up !

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
Becoming a Christian meant they had to stop being active Roman soldiers.

I think some were executed as soon as they were immersed in Jesus' Name.

RDKirk · Nov 10, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
No one responded to my post in which I showed that Jesus clearly mandated armed service to combat evil...

That's an absurd use of the scripture.

Romans 13 directs Christians to do three things with regard to human government:

1. Obey their laws
2. Honor their officials
3. Pay their taxes

When I was active duty stationed overseas, our commander gave us the same direction with regard to the host country:

1. Obey their laws
2. Honor their officials
3. Pay whatever taxes they levied on us.

When I was in the Philippines (during the last of the Marcos regime), the Philippine Constabulary had the habit of stopping American soldiers at roadblocks and shaking us down for money. We complained to our leadership, but our general direct us to always stop and always pay whatever they demanded. If we did honor their roadblocks and pay whatever "fee" they demanded, he would take disciplinary action upon us.

Similar things happen in Saudi Arabia, where American servicewomen must suffer indignities--and the military must impose indignities upon American servicewomen--because we must obey their laws and honor their officials.

Yet, at no point did we ever get confused and think that by obeying their laws, honoring their officials, or paying their taxes, we somehow became citizens of those countries. We always understood that we were citizens of the United States temporarily deployed to those nations to perform a mission of limited duration...then we were going home.

That's exactly what Romans 13 means for us today. We are citizens of Heaven temporarily deployed to various human nations to perform a mission of limited duration, then we're going home.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
Are we being used for evil or for good?

Most people for evil.

The world governments, religions, agencies, educatin systems, medical systems, etc etc etc (and even banking), use people as /like fodder - whats the word in the Apocalypse -? buying and selling souls like cattle ....

RDKirk · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Good exposition I think.
Did you see or read Desmond Doss's story. He (alone?) WAS ABLE to always DO what GOD SAYS is RIGHT - even though his fellow military members and those in authority over him persecuted him for it.
Even UNDER FIRE, he never picked up a gun. (there's a lot more also, about his obedience to God, not man, WHILE IN THE MILITARY)

So how about if all people in the military take up Doss' example and refuse to pick up a gun?

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
I have to look at how the US military is being used and point out that it's being used for evil, and has been for the last 50 years.

Possibly all the wars. wwi and wwii also..... Hidden purposes then, that have since been revealed and published.

RDKirk · Nov 10, 2019

B8t6 said:
Its evil to give up your free will through a vow to make you own decisions based on moral right and wrong. Now the man who commands you becomes your God

Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so...You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. -- 1 Corinthians 7

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
So how about if all people in the military take up Doss' example and refuse to pick up a gun?

What do you really think? Doss obeyed God and God's Word perfectly.

He was mocked.

He was persecuted for it.

He got the highest honor for bravery and courage and action (saving others) that could be given,
awarded to him by the President of the USA, the CHIEF (Highest Military Commander?) ...

What happened when men and women were immersed in Jesus ? (see the Book of Martyrs)

They would no longer kill nor harm another human being willfully. They were executed.

What did /do the Apostles in Scripture say ? Go ahead obey men? Or obey God?

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you--although if you can gain your freedom, do so...You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. -- 1 Corinthians 7

Everyone -
1) slave of sin/ the flesh/ unrighteousness
OR
2) slave of righteousness/ willingly / joyously/ no matter what....

RDKirk · Nov 10, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Yes as Rom 13:4 says they bear the sword under His authority.

And Christ will destroy all human governments, because it is still true: "All who live by the sword will die by the sword."

This is a fallen world. In this fallen world, animals exist by tooth and claw...but it was not always like that.

In this fallen world, human kings keep order by the sword. Christ uses that order to extend His kingdom. Certainly, the order provided by the Roman Empire was useful for Paul's ability to travel so far and preach so widely.

One pastor has said, "Satan operates most effectively under the cover of chaos." We can see that the Holy Spirit can operate even in a horribly oppressive--but orderly--system like North Korea better than in a region of utter chaos like South Sudan.

But you're absolutely wrong in thinking that the Body of Christ is mandated to take part in that activity, any more than any ambassador is expected to join the army of the country he is assigned to.

Else, do you also think that Christians in North Korea should join that army?

B8t6 · Nov 10, 2019

You stop following Jesus as soon as you take a military oath

James 5:12

“But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

B8t6 · Nov 10, 2019

Like I said i believe its evil to give up your right to make your own decisions based on right and wrong through becoming an order follower who follows orders unable to use free will conscientious judgement through negating your free will by oath to another human being who you don't know who's orders you follow instead of God

renniks · Nov 10, 2019

SteveIndy said:
There is no doubt, Christianity is made up of sinners, converted sinners. If this “convert” is living daily in the sin he or she was saved from then there is a very good reason to believe that it was seed that fell among the rocks. The Lord is patient but His command is firm, separate from your sin.

If you are a true Christian then you have no need of soldiers, only unbelievers need help from the world. This is exactly the reason that Jesus said, “Will I even find faith on the earth when I return?” In chapter 7 of Romans Paul talks of this battle between sin and salvation and says he is a prisoner to his old way of life. This is a good example of all of those who are still held prisoner to the idea of killing their enemies. “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!” Paul found the answer, the question is, Will you?

When Jesus said that He did not come to bring peace but a sword He illustrates what He meant. In this illustration He means for us to see that the sword is an instrument that divides and separates, it divides families and friends. Jesus was no hippy just wanting to love and get along with everyone. This issue of non-resistance to the evil person is just such an issue. Jesus came to preach the truth that is so hard for people to grasp because it cuts so deep. This truth of non-resistance to evil is just such a truth; it has cost very many lives, divided families, and lost friends. No hippy ever wanted to preach that message, only Jesus and those who risk everything for the TRUTH.

Hmmm.. Jesus commended the Centurian for his faith. He didn't condemn him for being a soldier. The first gentile Christian we know of was a centurion. And you seem to be forgetting that Jesus was God when God ordered people to go to war in the OT.

GOD Shines Forth! · Nov 10, 2019

Pacifism is a hobby horse some people like to ride.

Carl Emerson · Nov 10, 2019

RDKirk said:
That's an absurd use of the scripture.

Romans 13 directs Christians to do three things with regard to human government:

1. Obey their laws
2. Honor their officials
3. Pay their taxes

When I was active duty stationed overseas, our commander gave us the same direction with regard to the host country:

1. Obey their laws
2. Honor their officials
3. Pay whatever taxes they levied on us.

When I was in the Philippines (during the last of the Marcos regime), the Philippine Constabulary had the habit of stopping American soldiers at roadblocks and shaking us down for money. We complained to our leadership, but our general direct us to always stop and always pay whatever they demanded. If we did honor their roadblocks and pay whatever "fee" they demanded, he would take disciplinary action upon us.

Similar things happen in Saudi Arabia, where American servicewomen must suffer indignities--and the military must impose indignities upon American servicewomen--because we must obey their laws and honor their officials.

Yet, at no point did we ever get confused and think that by obeying their laws, honoring their officials, or paying their taxes, we somehow became citizens of those countries. We always understood that we were citizens of the United States temporarily deployed to those nations to perform a mission of limited duration...then we were going home.

That's exactly what Romans 13 means for us today. We are citizens of Heaven temporarily deployed to various human nations to perform a mission of limited duration, then we're going home.

Well you certainly fired a shot across my bows...

We will have to agree to disagree...

I was a conscientious objector, I see matters differently now.

I will raise the issue of Rom 13:4 on a new thread and see what happens.

B8t6 · Nov 10, 2019

renniks said:
Hmmm.. Jesus commended the Centurian for his faith. He didn't condemn him for being a soldier. The first gentile Christian we know of was a centurion. And you seem to be forgetting that Jesus was God when God ordered people to go to war in the OT.

Which covenant are you following the old covenant or the new covenant ? Do you understand the difference because its the reason Jesus said this

Matthew 5:43-48 King James Version (KJV)
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

B8t6 · Nov 10, 2019

Matthew 5:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

New covenant

B8t6 · Nov 10, 2019

That's part of the problem as you have Christians mixing old covenant and new covenant together.

brinny · Nov 10, 2019

GOD Shines Forth! said:
Pacifism is a hobby horse some people like to ride.

Amen.

Jesus Christ was not a "Pacifist".

The Devil Adores the Christian Soldier

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