Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”?

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yeshuaslavejeff

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The passage you refer to does not say when and how He learned obedience.
A good thought just occurred reading this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:

How did Jewish children of righteous parents learn obedience ?

Especially according to TORAH , PROPHETS and PSALMS ? (and New Testament , very much so)
 
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the last child

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I gave you a post with over 20 translations, NONE OF WHICH was a prayer ASKING the Father what that false teachers claims.
Not one of the translations available shows Jesus asking what the false teacher claims.

If you still think Jesus asked as the false teacher claims, QUOTE THE PARAGRAPH in SCRIPTURE where Jesus asks as the false teacher claims.


How did I know it would be you, dear dear Jeff buddy? I had put you on my “other” list of ppl and I couldn’t see your posts. I had assumed it would only block the ones u sent me, not the ones u put up in public. But then I was puzzled as to why Redleg was apparently arguing with...no one? So I put you back on the blue team and voila! Poof! It was you dear buddy! All along! Stirring the pool again! :wave::clap::wave::wave::ebil:
 
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Neogaia777

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Even if Jesus was tempted, "in all ways as we are"... His recorded prayers are breathed by the Father, inspired by the Father, to be written as the Father directed, for the Father's Purpose and Plan, for us - to instill in us, with all of His Word, Life, and Hunger for Jesus, and Thirst for Righteousness, and love for His Kingdom, and His Sovereignty ....
Like Jesus says in other places in Scripture - I do not have to say /pray/ praise the Father out loud for my own sake (though He did always DO as the Father directed),
it is for your sakes (the disciples, and us) .
I don't think He ever "entertained" any temptations though, like so many of us all too often do, and He certainly did not give into any of them ever or at any time, also like so many of us do sometimes as well, etc, and for this reason I don't think most of them lasted very long, especially not the ones more common to man, or man only, etc... Some of His temptations though, might have been on a "level" that many of us just might not be able to fully comprehend though, with the "level" of power He had at his disposal most especially, being who He was, etc...

And I don't think any of the temptations in His case came from His own desires either, like James says, and like so many of ours do/are in our cases, etc, but were more of an uninvited, unwarranted, and unwanted and undeserved, and unasked-for, "attack" (violation) (form of rape) upon His own mind/heart, etc, permitted by the Father and the Holy Spirit to elevate Him, of course, and so He could learn all He needed to know to be who was to be and always was before that, etc, that was necessary, etc, fortunately/unfortunately, etc, anyway, an "attack" upon His own mind and heart, permitted by the Father and Holy Spirit, but that maybe came from the enemy, etc, because he (the enemy) probably knew who He (Jesus) was as well, His (Jesus) destiny if he (the enemy) could not stop him, etc...

Anyway, just my thoughts...

God Bless!
 
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the last child

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You know this reminds me of all the people healed at the pool, right ?

Yes yes Jeff..but unfortunately this pool isn’t healing anyone....just making waves!
 
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Neogaia777

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I don't think He ever "entertained" any temptations though, like so many of us all too often do, and He certainly did not give into any of them ever or at any time, also like so many of us do sometimes as well, etc, and for this reason I don't think most of them lasted very long, especially not the ones more common to man, or man only, etc... Some of His temptations though, might have been on a "level" that many of us just might not be able to fully comprehend though, with the "level" of power He had at his disposal most especially, being who He was, etc...

And I don't think any of the temptations in His case came from His own desires either, like James says, and like so many of ours do/are in our cases, etc, but were more of an uninvited, unwarranted, and unwanted and undeserved, and unasked-for, "attack" (violation) (form of rape) upon His own mind/heart, etc, permitted by the Father and the Holy Spirit to elevate Him, of course, and so He could learn all He needed to know to be who was to be and always was before that, etc, that was necessary, etc, fortunately/unfortunately, etc, anyway, an "attack" upon His own mind and heart, permitted by the Father and Holy Spirit, but that maybe came from the enemy, etc, because he (the enemy) probably knew who He (Jesus) was as well, His (Jesus) destiny if he (the enemy) could not stop him, etc...

Anyway, just my thoughts...

God Bless!
And don't even get me started on how I think most of the mainstream media now is being used to violate many in this way, but that's another subject/topic for another time, some people even doing it to each other, etc, some on purpose, etc, full well knowing it, etc...

Anyway, don't get me started on that, I would even call it a form of "witchcraft", definitely at the very least a great from of great deceptive manipulation and mind control, etc, although I think it is even more evil than that now, etc...

"A prison for your mind" (quote from one of my very few, very select narrow and very small list of favorite approved movies of mine, etc) (made over twenty years ago, etc)...

Dark times for sure, I stay out of it and stay away from it when and where I can, etc...

God Bless!
 
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the last child

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How many at the pool were healed by Jesus anyway ? The others/ what happened to them?
Same here?

you’re missing the point Jeff. The point is you’re just making waves.
 
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His student

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How did Jewish children of righteous parents learn obedience ?
Most - from their parents and from the teachings of the scriptures.

In the case of Jesus and John the Baptist (him being Elijah) - who both possessed the Holy Spirit from their mother's womb - directly from the Holy Spirit as well.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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you’re missing the point Jeff. The point is you’re just making waves.
I did not miss anything, but thanks.

What did the angel do who stirred the waters ? DO it without making waves ? !

or do you think I should allow false teaching that was exposed decade ago without saying anything ? and just be silent while others get led astray ?
 
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JackRT

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I think it quite possible that Jesus "learning obedience" could refer to him learning to read and write under a rabbi or sophar at the synagogue or studying for the rabbinate in Bet Hillel.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Most - from their parents and from the teachings of the scriptures.

In the case of Jesus and John the Baptist (him being Elijah) - who both possessed the Holy Spirit from their mother's womb - directly from the Holy Spirit as well.
Yes.
(from their parents is the "as well" I was thinking of)
Perhaps the word "suffered", as Jesus learned obedience from the things He suffered,
means a lot more than we realize ? (since sons are scourged if their father is righteous - a person who is without scourging is not a son according to the Creator's Word) scourging is a kind of suffering , perhaps... (haven't thought this out .... so this is subject to clarifying)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I think it quite possible that Jesus "learning obedience" could refer to him learning to read and write under a rabbi or sophar at the synagogue or studying for the rabbinate in Bet Hillel.
Was that also known as 'suffering' by the pupils ?
 
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His student

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...but I thought He did not receive the “power” of the Holy Spirit until He was baptized.
Jesus (unlike fallen men) was never spiritually dead and in need of regeneration. He possessed the Holy Spirit from His mother's womb.

He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism for power to minister when the time was right.

We who possess the Spirit from the moment of our new birth must also receive Him in power for ministry when the time comes.

The disciples are our example of that. They were breathed on and obviously received the Holy Spirit in some sense before Pentecost. But they were told to tarry in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came upon them in power for ministry at Pentecost.

We probably don't want to get into Pentecostal teachings here and now. But obviously the receptions of the Holy Spirit shown to us in the Book of Acts were not people being "born again". People don't get born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit for salvation by tarrying for Him or through water baptism.

By the way - the Holy Spirit is infinite and omnipresent. Any reference to Him coming upon people at select times (whether it be Jesus or His disciples) has to do with relational changes and not to actual spacial movements by Him.
And also, doesn’t the Bible say that His first miracle was in Cana when He turned the water to wine? So He did He do miraculous things before then like walking on water or healing sick? I would think that would have caused quite a stir back then... I was always under the impression He waited to do those things until He started His ministry?
I never claimed that Jesus did miracles before His ministry started in the full power of the Spirit - unless you count overcoming sin and living a perfect life a miracle (I suppose it is).
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”? (Hebrews 5)

The context of Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that “who, in the days of His flesh” refers back to Christ, the main subject in v. 5.

In Gethsemane, Jesus agonized and wept, but committed Himself to do the Father’s will in accepting the cup of suffering which would bring His death (Matt. 26: 38–46; Luke 22: 44, 45).

Anticipating bearing the burden of judgment for sin, Jesus felt its fullest pain and grief (Is. 52: 14; 53: 3–5, 10).

Though He bore the penalty in silence and did not seek to deliver Himself from it (Is. 53: 7), He did cry out from the agony of the fury of God’s wrath poured on His perfectly holy and obedient Person (Matt. 27: 46; 2 Cor. 5: 21).

Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10). “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (v. 8).

Christ did not need to suffer in order to conquer or correct any disobedience. In His deity (as the Son of God), He understood obedience completely. As the incarnate Lord, He humbled Himself to learn (Luke 2: 52).

He learned obedience for the same reasons He bore temptation: to confirm His humanity and experience its sufferings to the fullest (2: 10; Luke 2: 52; Phil. 2: 8). Christ’s obedience was also necessary so that He could fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 5: 13) and thus prove to be the perfect sacrifice to take the place of sinners (1 Pet. 3: 18).

He was the perfectly righteous One, whose righteousness would be imputed to sinners (Rom. 3: 24–26). “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation” (v. 9). Because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and His perfect sacrifice for sin, He became the cause of salvation.

True salvation evidences itself in obedience to Christ, from the initial obedience to the gospel command to repent and believe (Acts 5: 32; Rom. 1: 5; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Pet. 1: 2, 22; 4: 17) to a life pattern of obedience to the Word (Rom. 6: 16). —-John MacArthur
Jesus was true man as well as true God. In that man status He learned obedience and exercised that obedience to fulfill the entire Law and did this sacrificially for us all.
Philippians 2:5-9:
Indeed, let this attitude be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus. 6 Though he was by nature God, he did not consider equality with God as a prize to be displayed, 7 but he emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant. When he was born in human likeness, and his appearance was like that of any other man, 8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, -- EHV

Romans 1:1-4:

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

You see the two sides of Christ defined in these passages and more.
 
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redleghunter

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I think it quite possible that Jesus "learning obedience" could refer to him learning to read and write under a rabbi or sophar at the synagogue or studying for the rabbinate in Bet Hillel.
Quite plausible for learning purposes.

However, the OP refers to Hebrews 5 and related to suffering:

Hebrews 5: NASB

7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
 
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JackRT

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Was that also known as 'suffering' by the pupils ?

I did not use the word 'suffer' but learning any subject requires discipline, patience, concentration and diligence. That is certainly demanding and not all are capable of it.
 
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redleghunter

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I would like to get this thread back on topic. The actual reference to obedience addressed in the OP regards the expository in Hebrews 5.

Hebrews 5:NASB
7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
 
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ewq1938

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Yes, the obvious context in the passage is learning obedience and suffering in relation to what he prayed about. It's all about the cross and the events that led up to it. All this means is he learned that the cross was the only way and he accepted that. I think we automatically misunderstand "learning obedience" as in stopping disobedience but I think it's far simpler than that and without any negative connotations.


Quite plausible for learning purposes.

However, the OP refers to Hebrews 5 and related to suffering:

Hebrews 5: NASB

7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
 
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