Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”?

Neogaia777 · Nov 10, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Some would say He (Jesus) was "delusional", but if that is so, how was He able to do all that He did, etc...?

Like many concluded, even some of the Pharisees, how could He do such things if He was not One of God's chosen ones, or was from God, or got His ability to do the things He did and was doing from God, etc...

Then there is all the "prophecy" concerning Him also... Then there was/is all the wisdom He had expressed in all the things He was saying and was teaching and preaching, etc...

The scriptures says He was tempted in every way, yet without sin, so if He was ever disobedient, how could He still be without Sin (also)...?

So there has to be an explanation, He cannot be sinless if He was ever disobedient.

And scripture clearly says He was sinless, etc...

God Bless!

Another way to look at His sin, if there was any, not saying there was, but, anyway, another way to look at it is He was "blameless" in all His ways and all that He did (Jesus)...

When your innocent or ignorant, and it is not because you have shut your own eyes or closed your own ears, you are considered "blameless", if and when you could do something, that might be considered by some to be a "sin", if at the moment your eyes and/or ears are opened to it, you do not ever do it again, etc... And, also, you are considered "blameless", when you do what you do or are doing for a very far much greater, or far higher, or very much greater, or much, much better and higher "moral good", etc...

In cases such as those, even if you might maybe do some things that others might consider are a "sin", they are wrong, because in God's eyes and in His moral judgments, they are not sins, etc...

So, another way to look at Jesus sinlessness is He was 100% totally and completely "blameless", etc...

Either way, something none of us could do or ever accomplish throughout our entire lives until we physically died, or died physically, etc...

God Bless!

His student · Nov 10, 2019

redleghunter said:
Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”? (Hebrews 5)

The passage you refer to does not say when and how He learned obedience. He, in fact, learned about the necessity of obedience in various ways throughout His life and not just at the end. Like everything He learned of and from God - it was a process that developed through faith just as it is for all of His children.

"And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." Luke 2:51-52

Although He was both God and man in the flesh - I submit that He did everything He did while in the flesh as a man would and should - having laid aside divine prerogatives and learned of His full identity as God's Son (by study of and faith in the Word of God) and overcome sin as a representative Spirit filled man just as we should.

That goes, IMO, for learning about God and what He cares about, learning and practicing obedience, and doing miracles such as laying hands of the sick, casting out demons and even walking on water.

That growth occurred from His time as a toddler under the instruction of His earthly parents, on through the instruction He received from His heavenly Father through the written Word of God and the leading and teaching of the Holy Spirit throughout His life - right up til the end when He submitted to the will of His Father as He saw it in scripture and as He was led by the Holy Spirit.

All of God's children - grow from faith to faith (it takes practice). The same was true for the man Jesus. He learned obedience and grew in faith all of His life which eventually allowed Him to take the biggest leap of faith in His life when He laid it down in obedience to the will of His heavenly Father.

visionary · Nov 10, 2019

The first place and time He learned obedience was as a child, He obeyed His parents (Luke 2:51). As an adult, He obeyed the Law (Matthew 5:17) and fulfilled all righteousness (Matthew 3:15).

All His life, Yeshua was in tune with His Father’s will (John 8:29; 15:10; Hebrews 10:9) and subjected Himself to its directions. In every situation, no matter how difficult, the Son was obedient to the Father: “The Sovereign Lord has opened my ears; I have not been rebellious, I have not turned away. I offered my back to those who beat me” (Isaiah 50:5–6).

inquiring mind · Nov 10, 2019

redleghunter said:
Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”? (Hebrews 5)

The context of Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that “who, in the days of His flesh” refers back to Christ, the main subject in v. 5.

In Gethsemane, Jesus agonized and wept, but committed Himself to do the Father’s will in accepting the cup of suffering which would bring His death (Matt. 26: 38–46; Luke 22: 44, 45).

Anticipating bearing the burden of judgment for sin, Jesus felt its fullest pain and grief (Is. 52: 14; 53: 3–5, 10).

Though He bore the penalty in silence and did not seek to deliver Himself from it (Is. 53: 7), He did cry out from the agony of the fury of God’s wrath poured on His perfectly holy and obedient Person (Matt. 27: 46; 2 Cor. 5: 21).

Jesus asked to be saved from remaining in death, i.e., to be resurrected (Ps. 16: 9, 10). “Though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered” (v. 8).

Christ did not need to suffer in order to conquer or correct any disobedience. In His deity (as the Son of God), He understood obedience completely. As the incarnate Lord, He humbled Himself to learn (Luke 2: 52).

He learned obedience for the same reasons He bore temptation: to confirm His humanity and experience its sufferings to the fullest (2: 10; Luke 2: 52; Phil. 2: 8). Christ’s obedience was also necessary so that He could fulfill all righteousness (Matt. 5: 13) and thus prove to be the perfect sacrifice to take the place of sinners (1 Pet. 3: 18).

He was the perfectly righteous One, whose righteousness would be imputed to sinners (Rom. 3: 24–26). “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation” (v. 9). Because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ and His perfect sacrifice for sin, He became the cause of salvation.

True salvation evidences itself in obedience to Christ, from the initial obedience to the gospel command to repent and believe (Acts 5: 32; Rom. 1: 5; 2 Thess. 1: 8; 1 Pet. 1: 2, 22; 4: 17) to a life pattern of obedience to the Word (Rom. 6: 16). —-John MacArthur

At this point of His mission, His pain and suffering were coming to the highest level, and 'as a man' He had to learn to be even more obedient. That's not saying He wasn’t obedient before, but now, He was trying to go forward with the full knowledge and realization of what was coming in a very short time.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
........

Is this a new type of posting

?............curious

redleghunter · Nov 10, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Is this a new type of posting ?............curious

Should have seen what was there before.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Is this a new type of posting ?............curious

sort of. IF anyone seems offended (OR just is looking for a chance to snipe/report) by any post anywhere, even if they are not participating, I sometimes edit/delete it after the person(s) it was for has read it. Like when delivering a hand written message on paper, across a war torn field to another foxhole, ducking into foxhole after message delivered.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
Is this a new type of posting ?............curious

The truth is under attack, in other words, while false teachings are free to be posted.

redleghunter · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
The truth is under attack, in other words, while false teachings are free to be posted.

What is false in the OP. If you can’t present an argument please go elsewhere

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

redleghunter said:
What is false in the OP. If you can’t present an argument please go elsewhere

You were already told, and rejected it. The psalm of David is very clearly praise and worship of the Father for what David/ (and later Jesus also) KNEW, - they did even think to ask for what they already know the Father grants them - instead THEY PRAISE HIM FOR IT.

redleghunter · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
You were already told, and rejected it. The psalm of David is very clearly praise and worship of the Father for what David/ (and later Jesus also) KNEW, - they did even think to ask for what they already know the Father grants them - instead THEY PRAISE HIM FOR IT.

Already answered you here.

No one even JM suggested Jesus did not know. It was a matter of asking. And I already showed you Jesus did ask as the author of Hebrews states. That is what was commented on.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

redleghunter said:
It was a matter of asking.

Did you read the Psalm. Jesus did not ask, not in Hebrews, not in Psalms,
as for jm
look online for what he taught in error ABOUT THE BLOOD/ ATONEMENT. It is a false gospel.

redleghunter · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Did you read the Psalm. Jesus did not ask, not in Hebrews, not in Psalms,
as for jm
look online for what he taught in error ABOUT THE BLOOD/ ATONEMENT. It is a false gospel.

Jesus sure did ask. Hebrews 5 says so. Praying and supplication is asking.

Your assertion was the OP said Jesus did not know. I pointed out no one was making the argument or made the comments you claim they did.

I’ll await the next goal post move.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

redleghunter said:
Jesus sure did ask. Hebrews 5 says so. Praying and supplication is asking.

I gave you a post with over 20 translations, NONE OF WHICH was a prayer ASKING the Father what that false teachers claims.
Not one of the translations available shows Jesus asking what the false teacher claims.

If you still think Jesus asked as the false teacher claims, QUOTE THE PARAGRAPH in SCRIPTURE where Jesus asks as the false teacher claims.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
sort of. IF anyone seems offended (OR just is looking for a chance to snipe/report) by any post anywhere, even if they are not participating, I sometimes edit/delete it after the person(s) it was for has read it. Like when delivering a hand written message on paper, across a war torn field to another foxhole, ducking into foxhole after message delivered.

You do know they show up anyway if someone responds. Haaa..got to be quick around here!

Eloy Craft · Nov 10, 2019

Did anyone mention Matt, 26-39 ?

"And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.”

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

Eloy Craft said:
Did anyone mention Matt, 26-39 ?

"And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.”

Why? To show further Jesus' Perfect Obedience to His Father ?

Neogaia777 · Nov 10, 2019

Eloy Craft said:
Did anyone mention Matt, 26-39 ?

"And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.”

I'd like to know if there is a question in there or not...?

It does not mean that He had not been always doing the Father's will up to that point, just that, at that particular moment, if but for a moment, knowing what He was about to face and go through, seeing it all, etc, He might have been tempted, if only for a moment, to turn away from it/that, or doing that (The Father's will), if only for a moment in that moment, but He did not, etc, and did not ever, etc...

That's why I wanted to know if there was a question in there or not...?

God Bless!

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 10, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
I'd like to know if there is a question in there or not...?

It does not mean that He had not been always doing the Father's will up to that point, just that, at that particular moment, if but for a moment, knowing what He was about to face and go through, seeing it all, etc, He might have been tempted, if only for a moment, to turn away from it/that, or doing that (The Father's will), if only for a moment, but He did not, etc...

That's why I wanted to know if there was a question in there or not...?

God Bless!

Even if Jesus was tempted, "in all ways as we are"... His recorded prayers are breathed by the Father, inspired by the Father, to be written as the Father directed, for the Father's Purpose and Plan, for us - to instill in us, with all of His Word, Life, and Hunger for Jesus, and Thirst for Righteousness, and love for His Kingdom, and His Sovereignty ....
Like Jesus says in other places in Scripture - I do not have to say /pray/ praise the Father out loud for my own sake (though He did always DO as the Father directed),
it is for your sakes (the disciples, and us) .

the last child · Nov 10, 2019

His student said:
The passage you refer to does not say when and how He learned obedience. He, in fact, learned about the necessity of obedience in various ways throughout His life and not just at the end. Like everything He learned of and from God - it was a process that developed through faith just as it is for all of His children.

"And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." Luke 2:51-52

Although He was both God and man in the flesh - I submit that He did everything He did while in the flesh as a man would and should - having laid aside divine prerogatives and learned of His full identity as God's Son (by study of and faith in the Word of God) and overcome sin as a representative Spirit filled man just as we should.

That goes, IMO, for learning about God and what He cares about, learning and practicing obedience, and doing miracles such as laying hands of the sick, casting out demons and even walking on water.

That growth occurred from His time as a toddler under the instruction of His earthly parents, on through the instruction He received from His heavenly Father through the written Word of God and the leading and teaching of the Holy Spirit throughout His life - right up til the end when He submitted to the will of His Father as He saw it in scripture and as He was led by the Holy Spirit.

All of God's children - grow from faith to faith (it takes practice). The same was true for the man Jesus. He learned obedience and grew in faith all of His life which eventually allowed Him to take the biggest leap of faith in His life when He laid it down in obedience to the will of His heavenly Father.

...but I thought He did not receive the “power” of the Holy Spirit until He was baptized. And also, doesn’t the Bible say that His first miracle was in Cana when He turned the water to wine? So He did He do miraculous things before then like walking on water or healing sick? I would think that would have caused quite a stir back then... I was always under the impression He waited to do those things until He started His ministry?

Why does it say that Jesus “learned obedience”?

Old Soul

Well-Known Member

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

and a discerning heart

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Thank You Jesus!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Thank You Jesus!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Thank You Jesus!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Well-Known Member

Myth only points, Truth happened!

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Old Soul

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

This. this is my right eye—no left eye. sorry. Lol

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