Can we date divorcees?

Isilwen said:

What denomination are you?

Because as someone who has left Catholicism and is looking for a different denomination, I'll know to stay away, far, far away.

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Most denominations allow divorce and remarriage. I don't belong to any Church.

Dave L said:

Most denominations allow divorce and remarriage. I don't belong to any Church.

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Now I understand where your position comes from and is a good reminder to be in a church!

Would you like to comment on my reply to you about your yes in regards to the sermon on the mount?

Isilwen said:

Now I understand where your position comes from and is a good reminder to be in a church!

Would you like to comment on my reply to you about your yes in regards to the sermon on the mount?

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I didn't see your reply. What is it?

Dave L said:

I didn't see your reply. What is it?

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Here: Can we date divorcees?

Dave L said:

They were adulterous marriages.

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So their sin was unforgivable then, and a clean slate from God was not available for them?

My view is that the strict judgmentalism among some Christians comes from faulty exegesis of the Scriptures involving what Jesus and Paul said about divorce and remarriage.

Oscarr said:

So their sin was unforgivable then, and a clean slate from God was not available for them?

My view is that the strict judgmentalism among some Christians comes from faulty exegesis of the Scriptures involving what Jesus and Paul said about divorce and remarriage.

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In the end, God delivers us from sin. Sometimes the hard way.

I know of professing believers (I hesitate to call them followers of Christ...) who teach that people who have divorced and remarried need to leave their current spouses and return to their original marriages, whether or not they now have children with their current spouse, in order to escape the wrath and judgment of God. They twist the Scriptures in all sorts of interesting ways to support this theory. Modern day Pharisees, straining out a gnat but swallowing a whole camel. When it becomes all about rules and laws, and not about the heart of Jesus, and completely ignores the truth of God caring more about His people than about their marriage contracts, it has crossed the line from holiness into heresy.

Dave L said:

In the end, God delivers us from sin. Sometimes the hard way.

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I asked if you wanted to comment on my reply to your yes comment about the sermon on the mount. You said you didn't see it. So, I replied back with a link to it.

Will you comment on it?

Dave L said:

In the end, God delivers us from sin. Sometimes the hard way.

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He has already - the moment Jesus said, "It is finished". As soon as we accepted Christ as Saviour, the punishment and guilt for sin has been removed. The Mosaic Law has been superceded by the law of love.

The Bible is silent about the breakup of marriages through desertion and domestic violence. It clears the innocent party in the event of adultery and fornication. But it is silent about what happens to the innocent party who has been beaten to an inch of her life, or has been deserted by her spouse.

It would have been totally legal for the crowd to have stoned the woman caught in adultery, because that was the penalty according to the Law. But Jesus had a different view, which was actually in violation of the Law. He let the woman go without any penalty. The stance He took was that the person who had never sinned (not necessarily adultery but any other sin, including outbreaks of anger, jealousy, envy, or even just stealing a pen from the post office!), cast the first stone. None of the people in the crowd could cast the first stone, because they were not sinlessly perfect themselves.

Therefore, the only people who have the right to discriminate, judge, condemn, refuse to admit into church fellowship, block from the Lord's supper, divorced and remarried people, are those who are sinlessly perfect in every detail. Even to the extent of merely saying, "You have sinned because you are divorced and remarried, and need to repent" - (Is it exercising love toward a couple to force them to separate? I think not!) - being a judgmental statement, is hypocrisy, seeing that one imperfect sinner is saying to another imperfect sinner that they need to repent.

It is interesting that Jesus was speaking to unconverted, hypocritical Pharisees when He spoke about divorce, and only when He was pressured to give an answer. And it was only to illustrate the difference between the Mosaic Law and God's holy standards (which none of us can reach anyway). I believe that if He wasn't pressured in the way He was, He wouldn't have brought the subject up.

It is interesting that the recommendations (and that's what they were) for Gentile believers according to the first Jerusalem council of the Apostles in response to Paul, did not include divorce and remarriage. And Paul spoke about it to Corinthian husbands who were leaving their wives for no other reason than they thought it more spiritual to be single rather than married.

However (tongue in cheek), if those who believe that 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 are not for today, to be consistent I could say that Paul's comments about divorce are not for today either!

SusaninBC said:

I know of professing believers (I hesitate to call them followers of Christ...) who teach that people who have divorced and remarried need to leave their current spouses and return to their original marriages, whether or not they now have children with their current spouse, in order to escape the wrath and judgment of God. They twist the Scriptures in all sorts of interesting ways to support this theory. Modern day Pharisees, straining out a gnat but swallowing a whole camel. When it becomes all about rules and laws, and not about the heart of Jesus, and completely ignores the truth of God caring more about His people than about their marriage contracts, it has crossed the line from holiness into heresy.

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I agree. It is a fact that God hates divorce. There is no doubt about that, and none of us would wish it even on our worst enemy. But it happens for all sorts of reasons. God also hates the works of the flesh, such as lying, stealing, hypocrisy, jealousy, envy, anger, uncleanness, fornication, foolish jesting; and yet there are many church members who have these things in their lives, and who are fully accepted as part of the hard core of churches, even as deacons, elders and pastors! And some of these very ones are the loudest in condemning divorced and remarried people!

In their eyes, a woman who has been beaten to an inch of her life by a violent husband, or has been deserted and left to fend for herself and her children, is a greater sinner and more deserving of the wrath of God, than a pastor who is stealing money from the church to satisfy is opulent lifestyle!

There are examples of violent wife-beating church elders remaining in their roles, while the abused wife is judged because she wasn't "obedient and loving" enough toward her husband, and forced from her church by the leadership who have favoured the violent husband over her!

There is much hypocrisy in many churches concerning divorce and remarriage because of these reasons, and there are going to be some very rude shocks among these judgmental church leaders and people when we all get to glory; and maybe some of those hypocrites may end up where they are not expecting to be!

Oscarr said:

There are examples of violent wife-beating church elders remaining in their roles, while the abused wife is judged because she wasn't "obedient and loving" enough toward her husband, and forced from her church by the leadership who have favoured the violent husband over her!

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Thank you for that. My husband actually was a church elder. He was violent to me and to our children, to the point that the police and CPS/MCFD were involved. Our pastor and the entire elders board knew what was happening, because they were attending hearings and meetings with us. I received a letter from the head elder saying that I needed to come before the church for discipline because I had filed for divorce instead of allowing my children to be removed for their safety and trusting the Lord to heal our marriage and restore my children to me. I was told to become more submissive and supportive, and to "suffer as Christ suffered". It broke me. But in the end I had to decide who God really is and what His will is for abused women. My only regret is that I didn't leave sooner, because two of my children want nothing to do with God, having watched their mother pray and beg God for deliverance all those years, instead of just getting them to safety. It is a dangerous thing to tell an abused person that their marriage is more important than their safety.

My former husband is still an elder in that same church.

Oscarr said:

It would have been totally legal for the crowd to have stoned the woman caught in adultery, because that was the penalty according to the Law.

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No, that would have required a judgment by the Sanhedrin. Basically the woman was facing a lynching mob.

SusaninBC said:

Thank you for that. My husband actually was a church elder. He was violent to me and to our children, to the point that the police and CPS/MCFD were involved. Our pastor and the entire elders board knew what was happening, because they were attending hearings and meetings with us. I received a letter from the head elder saying that I needed to come before the church for discipline because I had filed for divorce instead of allowing my children to be removed for their safety and trusting the Lord to heal our marriage and restore my children to me. I was told to become more submissive and supportive, and to "suffer as Christ suffered". It broke me. But in the end I had to decide who God really is and what His will is for abused women. My only regret is that I didn't leave sooner, because two of my children want nothing to do with God, having watched their mother pray and beg God for deliverance all those years, instead of just getting them to safety. It is a dangerous thing to tell an abused person that their marriage is more important than their safety.

My former husband is still an elder in that same church.

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I was wondering, is there any Part of the Bible that bounds us together forever till death do us part? And from my study of the word of God A man and a woman becomes one immediately married and the only thing that can separate them is death. It's only after death of your can remarry, else it is accounted as adultery.

JackRT said:

No, that would have required a judgment by the Sanhedrin. Basically the woman was facing a lynching mob.

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Very similar to the actions of many religious hypocrites who do the same to such people in our churches.

Anthony Luca said:

I was wondering, is there any Part of the Bible that bounds us together forever till death do us part? And from my study of the word of God A man and a woman becomes one immediately married and the only thing that can separate them is death. It's only after death of your can remarry, else it is accounted as adultery.

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Of course that is God's standard for marriage, but we must remember that sinless perfection is God's standard of holiness for all believers. The Scripture says that those who decide to be justified by observance to the Law are obligated to comply with it to perfection. If they cannot, they receive the curse of God upon themselves.

The standards surrounding marriage are part of that Law, and the reality is that many are unable to comply with that standard, as they cannot comply with most of God's other standards for holiness. Why single divorced and remarried people out for special judgment over and above the other failures that most experience?

And who among us are qualified to be judges of who is following the standards of holiness and who isn't? Only those who have kept the Law with absolute perfection. As far as I know, only one Person has ever been able to do that, so He is the only One who can be the sole judge of any of us - and that includes divorced and remarried believers.

Jesus said, "Why do you think you can be judges of what people do, when you don't do those things yourselves?"

A person may think he or she can accuse a divorced and remarried believer of adultery, but the accuser could be guilty of gossip, criticism, envy, jealousy, and a plain lack of love, kindness and gentleness toward those whom they are accusing. Are they not just as guilty of transgressing God's moral law as the ones they are accusing?

The great thing about Jesus being or sole judge, is that He is also our defence lawyer before God, and He prays for us to the Father. We therefore have a Judge who is touched with the feeling of our infirmities, shortcomings and failures, yet without sin in Himself.

Therefore the Judge of divorce and remarried believers is a defending, intercessing, gracious, merciful, kind, gentle, faithful and patient Judge, who has given every believer His righteousness so that no matter how they have failed in themselves, they can stand righteous before God without any guilt or fear of punishment.

Anthony Luca said:

I was wondering, is there any Part of the Bible that bounds us together forever till death do us part?

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Yes:

"A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."
1Cor 7:39

Can we date divorcees?

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"He who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Mt 5:32

solid_core said:

Yes:

"A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord."
1Cor 7:39

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True.

solid_core said:

"He who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Mt 5:32

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Very true. A bit difficult to make a charge of adultery stick when the Judge has already declared the "defendant" believer not guilty of all sin, because the believer's "Defence Lawyer" has taken the guilt and punishment of the offence upon Himself and suffered the penalty.

Are you aware of the term "double jeopardy"? An acquitted person cannot be charged again for the same offence.

"Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us" (Romans 8:3-34).

If God justifies, and Christ does not condemn because He died and rose from the dead and makes intercession for us, because there is no one greater than the Father and Jesus Christ to be able to bring charges against any believer, even if the believer has committed adultery by being divorced and marrying again. No one below the Father and Jesus Christ can bring any accusation against a Christian believer, and if any try, they are arrogantly going against the Father and Jesus Christ by thinking they have a right to accuse another believer of sin, when God doesn't.

Oscarr said:

Very true. A bit difficult to make a charge of adultery stick when the Judge has already declared the "defendant" believer not guilty of all sin, because the believer's "Defence Lawyer" has taken the guilt and punishment of the offence upon Himself and suffered the penalty.

Are you aware of the term "double jeopardy"? An acquitted person cannot be charged again for the same offence.

"Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us" (Romans 8:3-34).

If God justifies, and Christ does not condemn because He died and rose from the dead and makes intercession for us, because there is no one greater than the Father and Jesus Christ to be able to bring charges against any believer, even if the believer has committed adultery by being divorced and marrying again. No one below the Father and Jesus Christ can bring any accusation against a Christian believer, and if any try, they are arrogantly going against the Father and Jesus Christ by thinking they have a right to accuse another believer of sin, when God doesn't.

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Not sure what you want to say. That we are free to date/marry divorced people?