Ignorance may not truly be bliss but..

Sam91

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You forgot, had a situation came up that made you think about it, so you remembered. If you'd never had that situation and never had a reason to think about it, it would have stayed forgotten.
I don't know. As a psychology student, we term that memory and retrieval. To forget means to not be able to retrieve it. I don't need to be right and I don't want to make you wrong. You can keep your definition, I'll keep mine. :)
 
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coffee4u

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They're not sinful but the things that sate them won't be in the next life. So they would be desires that you won't have, but would you remember having them?

Say right now, you might desire to grill up a steak (you are in Australia so it's getting to that season right?). It's not sinful to desire to eat food, God made us to require it. It's not unholy to eat a steak, but to eat a steak, we have to kill a cow, or someone has to kill a cow for us. But ultimately, a cow has to die.
In the new creation, there is no death, we don't know if there will be cows at all, but if there were, they would not die. There would be no grilling of steaks. Since you will not die, even of starvation, you'd have no need to eat, but would you still desire the taste and texture of a steak? Or since there would be no death, no killing cows, and no steaks, would that desire just go away completely. Because if you still desire it, and it's just not something that's gonna happen, that'd be an unfulfilled desire, which won't happen either. So you won't desire that steak because that steak won't exist. But would you still remember having steaks and how they taste?

That's kind of the crux of what I'm wondering. If you remember them, you might desire them again, if you forget they ever existed, well then you'd be content and not desire it because you don't know about it.

I don't believe we will desire a steak, even if we do remember it. I think everything will be new including desires.
 
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Jamdoc

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Sometimes I kinda think back to that chocolate and sex analogy which I find to be fallacy, While maybe when you're currently having sex you don't desire chocolate, it's not like once you do it you never want chocolate ever again. Forever is an unimaginably long time.
A lot of Christians I think don't "sell" heaven or eternal life very well, they portray it as one thing and one thing only being in God's presence, and worshiping and loving God for all eternity. Like we'd just spend eternity falling on our faces worshiping and praising non stop. Something that sounds very samey and will be routine to be doing the same thing forever. For a long time, I had a fear. Because of how Christians "sold" salvation, as being just one thing and one thing only, and for myself I need constant change, constant variety.
I pray that God has better plans than for us to just spend all eternity falling on our face praising. He created a universe of such staggering variety and diversity, and gave us free will so that we'd all be different. The strongest feeling I have on the subject is that He wants variety in our works and love even more than I do, and doesn't want a monolithic eternity of people doing the same thing just happy to look at His face. Glory grows, it does not stay the same. There is no growth to glory if things are static with people just doing the same thing forever.
 
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the last child

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Well, the starting premise is wrong, because not all desires are sinful.
Wanting marriage, sex and children is normal and healthy and God gave them to us. He said man should not live alone and created women and told them to go and be fruitful.
Having no desires is not bliss, again this is a slight stab from the enemy trying to distort what God has revealed to us.
The desires in the next kingdom will be different. I'm sure we won't fully understand until we are there. :)

And are we not told that our bodies will be like that of Jesus’ resurrected body? And He ate, drank, walked, talked, teleported, appeared, disappeared, was lifted up, in a cloud, well you, get the picture. A lot of stuff both that we can do now and things we cannot do yet. So I don’t understand people who think we won’t eat or do anything but float around and sing songs. Hello!!! We are talking about the same God of all of creation who gave us our imaginations and spirits of adventure and exploration, and told us we would be ruling the heavens and the angels! Anyone want to go explore some new planets with me? Check out some new galaxies? Who knows what we will find that He has waiting for us! We are way past boring and light years beyond the droll picture so many would have us believe await us beyond the pearly gates.

And then there’s this: we are going to be able to come and go to and from the new heaven and new earth. True, Jesus said there would be no new marriage in heaven. And I don’t know, but I am not sure if it is His nature to break something that He created (holy matrimony), although I do recall Him being known to fulfill or transform or change things. And He never said anything about how things would be on the new earth. We don’t fully understand how He intends to have everything be, and we won’t know until we get there. So anyway now that I’m sure I’ve ruffled a few feathers and made more than few ultra conservative denominations angry, I’ll let you guys get back to your regularly scheduled arguing—er debating—for this evening. :ebil::preach::angel::amen:
 
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coffee4u

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And are we not told that our bodies will be like that of Jesus’ resurrected body? And He ate, drank, walked, talked, teleported, appeared, disappeared, was lifted up, in a cloud, well you, get the picture. A lot of stuff both that we can do now and things we cannot do yet. So I don’t understand people who think we won’t eat or do anything but float around and sing songs. Hello!!! We are talking about the same God of all of creation who gave us our imaginations and spirits of adventure and exploration, and told us we would be ruling the heavens and the angels! Anyone want to go explore some new planets with me? Check out some new galaxies? Who knows what we will find that He has waiting for us! We are way past boring and light years beyond the droll picture so many would have us believe await us beyond the pearly gates.

And then there’s this: we are going to be able to come and go to and from the new heaven and new earth. True, Jesus said there would be no new marriage in heaven. And I don’t know, but I am not sure if it is His nature to break something that He created (holy matrimony), although I do recall Him being known to fulfill or transform or change things. And He never said anything about how things would be on the new earth. We don’t fully understand how He intends to have everything be, and we won’t know until we get there. So anyway now that I’m sure I’ve ruffled a few feathers and made more than few ultra conservative denominations angry, I’ll let you guys get back to your regularly scheduled arguing—er debating—for this evening. :ebil::preach::angel::amen:

I'm not sure what point of mine you are replying to since all I said was that I didn't know, but we would know when we got there and that I doubt it will be for things we can't have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Neogaia777

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(Psalms 23:1)
So, a warning, yes, this will probably be controversial.
Disclaimer: I'm not buddhist, and I know very little about Buddhism but what I do know is that central philosophies to it are that human suffering is caused by desire (which yes is wrong, it's caused by sin), and that the goal is to seek an enlightened state called Nirvana where you have an absence of desire and are content.
Now obviously it leaves God out, it leaves Christ out, but interesting food for thought, is that perhaps the state of bliss in His presence will be a removal of all desires? Because there are many verses in scripture that tell us in essence, don't desire things aside from God, be content (Philippians 4:11).
(Psalms 37:4) is a promise that our desires will be fulfilled. Yet we know there are things that will not be in the new creation. Marriage, and by extent, sex and children (Matthew 22:30), and there will be no death (Revelation 21:4), by extention of that, there will be no food outside of say, milk, honey, things that do not require anything dying to eat. But we (most of us anyway, there are voluntarily celibate people) have these desires hardwired into us, to eat (which in most cases, we have to kill something to eat), to get married and have a family (sexual desires involved there). So, if those things are not in the next Kingdom, the desires are not directly fulfilled. If all desires of the heart are fulfilled and those things that we might desire in this life are absent, the logical conclusion is that those desires are removed.
Do we just forget them? Would we be just completely ignorant about the concepts of sex and eating because we'd have no biological need for them and they would be things absent from our eternal life?
We will be in such a consistent and constant state of "nirvana" or bliss, (Bible even mentions "ecstasy") (compared to this, etc) anyway, we will be in such a constant and consistent state of nirvana or bliss, that all our desires will be changed and irrevocably altered very much dramatically and very radically, and in such a very dramatic and extremely radical way, that this life and the desires we will then see as, "use to have" at that point, will be completely forgotten and won't even exist anymore for all the exquisite new joys that we will have found being in Heaven and in the presence of God Himself and among the company or all the angels in Heaven, etc...

The desires and wants and cares and needs and wants of this life will pass away nigh instantly once we are in the presence of God there in the afterlife and in Heaven with the angels there, etc...

We can't even imagine or conceive of it right now though, let alone comprehend or grasp it right now, etc...

I do not believe all desire or desires will be completely removed, but will be changed so very much and so dramatically, that they will be near completely foreign to what we use to call desire and/or desires in and of this life here now, etc, anyway, all "changed" in such a way that we cannot behold or grasp or even come close to comprehending or thinking of or about right now, and that will make all the "cares" that we use to have in this life die and go away and disappear all but completely at that time, etc...

It's going to be "Glorious".

Unimaginable, incomprehensible right now, etc...

God Bless!
 
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aiki

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(Psalms 23:1)
So, a warning, yes, this will probably be controversial.
Disclaimer: I'm not buddhist, and I know very little about Buddhism but what I do know is that central philosophies to it are that human suffering is caused by desire (which yes is wrong, it's caused by sin), and that the goal is to seek an enlightened state called Nirvana where you have an absence of desire and are content.

And striving for that state of no desire is...desirable? Doesn't one have to desire such a condition in order to pursue it? It seems so to me. But this makes desiring the end of desire a nonsensical proposition.

Now obviously it leaves God out, it leaves Christ out, but interesting food for thought, is that perhaps the state of bliss in His presence will be a removal of all desires? Because there are many verses in scripture that tell us in essence, don't desire things aside from God, be content (Philippians 4:11).

Did God make a mistake when He created us with the desires to eat, sleep, procreate, love, laugh, increase knowledge, etc? Did He impart evil to us when He gave us the basic, natural desires we all possess? If not, then not all desire is wrong. Inordinate or immoral desire ought to be avoided and condemned, but there is nothing at all wrong with a husband desiring his wife, or a hungry man desiring food, or a tired woman desiring rest.

By the way, Philippians 4:11 doesn't say one should desire nothing, but only that Paul was content in whatever circumstance in which he found himself. You can be sure, though, that he desired to be warm when he was cold, and desired to eat when he was hungry, and desired to sleep when he was tired.

(Psalms 37:4) is a promise that our desires will be fulfilled.

And is, therefore, an implicit acknowledgement that desire is not intrinsically wrong.

Do we just forget them? Would we be just completely ignorant about the concepts of sex and eating because we'd have no biological need for them and they would be things absent from our eternal life?

Who knows?
 
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Jamdoc

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And striving for that state of no desire is...desirable? Doesn't one have to desire such a condition in order to pursue it? It seems so to me. But this makes desiring the end of desire a nonsensical proposition.



Did God make a mistake when He created us with the desires to eat, sleep, procreate, love, laugh, increase knowledge, etc? Did He impart evil to us when He gave us the basic, natural desires we all possess? If not, then not all desire is wrong. Inordinate or immoral desire ought to be avoided and condemned, but there is nothing at all wrong with a husband desiring his wife, or a hungry man desiring food, or a tired woman desiring rest.

By the way, Philippians 4:11 doesn't say one should desire nothing, but only that Paul was content in whatever circumstance in which he found himself. You can be sure, though, that he desired to be warm when he was cold, and desired to eat when he was hungry, and desired to sleep when he was tired.



And is, therefore, an implicit acknowledgement that desire is not intrinsically wrong.



Who knows?
It's not that desire is wrong its that some things just won't be in the eternal life so desiring them because you had them on earth would leave unfulfilled desires and discontentment, which we're promised is not going to happen.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. they're starting to make lab grown meat that doesn't require a cow dying, though that meat is still composed of cells that die, maybe that's not what God means by there will be no more Death, maybe that's just humans that won't die. So maybe you can have that steak. Who knows. I'm pretty sure there won't be sex though because sex outside of marriage is sin, and there will be no marriage and that's from the lips of Jesus. So that'd have to be a desire that is forgotten. To me at least, having a greater desire for God does not rule out lesser desires, nor does doing something that's greater joy rule out wanting smaller joys. Like I said, the sex and chocolate example that often gets used when talking about the absence of marriage and sex after the resurrection is making a fallacy in thinking that once you've had sex you'll never want chocolate again, so once you're in God's presence you'll never want anything else again... maybe you'll want them still, you'll just want to do those things WITH God, okay maybe not sex, but, maybe you'll want to grill up some ribeye with Jesus. One thing from the thread that is true, Jesus in his glorified resurrected body did eat with his disciples. So we might not have a biological need to eat but, we might still find enjoyment and fellowship in the act.
 
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aiki

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It's not that desire is wrong its that some things just won't be in the eternal life so desiring them because you had them on earth would leave unfulfilled desires and discontentment, which we're promised is not going to happen.

I see. I agree with you: It's hard to imagine that such discontent as you describe could exist in heaven. I don't see anything in Scripture about my future with my Creator and Saviour that even hints that when I'm with him I will have earthly, fleshly desires that go unfulfilled and produce dissatisfaction and discontentment.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. they're starting to make lab grown meat that doesn't require a cow dying, though that meat is still composed of cells that die, maybe that's not what God means by there will be no more Death, maybe that's just humans that won't die.

I find the idea of lab-grown flesh quite repellent. Yuck.

I don't think the life of the saved in eternity will be of the sort with which we are familiar on this side of the grave. We will have glorified bodies that are not susceptible to death as our current sin-cursed bodies are. This eternality of form is a spiritual, supernatural effect, though, not an effect that can be achieved by science.

I'm pretty sure there won't be sex though because sex outside of marriage is sin, and there will be no marriage and that's from the lips of Jesus. So that'd have to be a desire that is forgotten.

I think we will know one another such that sexual intimacy will seem a pale, grubby thing in comparison. I doubt we will miss sex even if we remember it. I believe I will know my spouse in heaven far more fully and wonderfully than I ever could being married to her here on earth.

To me at least, having a greater desire for God does not rule out lesser desires, nor does doing something that's greater joy rule out wanting smaller joys.

Well, I think God will be so fulfilling, so incredible and satisfying in-and-of Himself that all other desires will dissolve in the contentment and joy I will have in being in His presence. I will not pine for lesser joys because the Greatest Joy who is God will subsume all other joys.

so once you're in God's presence you'll never want anything else again... maybe you'll want them still, you'll just want to do those things WITH God, okay maybe not sex, but, maybe you'll want to grill up some ribeye with Jesus.

Maybe. But this thinking seems to make present earthly pleasures far too great and God far too small. If God is at all as the Bible reveals Him to be, I won't want to grill up a rib-eye; my sole and over-riding desire will be for Him who will satisfy me utterly and eternally.

So we might not have a biological need to eat but, we might still find enjoyment and fellowship in the act.

Possibly. Believers are called to the "marriage supper of the Lamb." Maybe that's just figurative language. Maybe not. I guess we'll just have to wait to find out.
 
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Jamdoc

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I see. I agree with you: It's hard to imagine that such discontent as you describe could exist in heaven. I don't see anything in Scripture about my future with my Creator and Saviour that even hints that when I'm with him I will have earthly, fleshly desires that go unfulfilled and produce dissatisfaction and discontentment.



I find the idea of lab-grown flesh quite repellent. Yuck.

I don't think the life of the saved in eternity will be of the sort with which we are familiar on this side of the grave. We will have glorified bodies that are not susceptible to death as our current sin-cursed bodies are. This eternality of form is a spiritual, supernatural effect, though, not an effect that can be achieved by science.



I think we will know one another such that sexual intimacy will seem a pale, grubby thing in comparison. I doubt we will miss sex even if we remember it. I believe I will know my spouse in heaven far more fully and wonderfully than I ever could being married to her here on earth.



Well, I think God will be so fulfilling, so incredible and satisfying in-and-of Himself that all other desires will dissolve in the contentment and joy I will have in being in His presence. I will not pine for lesser joys because the Greatest Joy who is God will subsume all other joys.



Maybe. But this thinking seems to make present earthly pleasures far too great and God far too small. If God is at all as the Bible reveals Him to be, I won't want to grill up a rib-eye; my sole and over-riding desire will be for Him who will satisfy me utterly and eternally.



Possibly. Believers are called to the "marriage supper of the Lamb." Maybe that's just figurative language. Maybe not. I guess we'll just have to wait to find out.

I get bored too quickly of things being the same for too long and there's evidence that God does too (such as how different and ever changing this universe is) There's evidence that God wants us to do different things than just bask in his presence in ecstasy for all eternity. He'll have THINGS he wants us to DO. So I don't think the "BBQ with Jesus Christ" is all that far fetched of a thing... provided such food is available. All things will be with God, and God will be with his people at all times. That doesn't rule out smaller joys, it just rules out sinful ones, unless God made a specific promise (such as Marriage and by extent Sex). Enjoying a smaller joy with God makes it a greater joy.
 
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aiki

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I get bored too quickly of things being the same for too long and there's evidence that God does too (such as how different and ever changing this universe is)

What other things might God be revealing in the variety and complexity of Creation? Can it all be reduced down to keeping us, or Himself, from boredom?

Also, how would you reconcile God being perfect with God getting bored? Wouldn't His perfection preclude boredom?

There's evidence that God wants us to do different things than just bask in his presence in ecstasy for all eternity.

I agree. We won't spend all our time in eternity just staring at God in stupefied adoration. But we will, I think, find ourselves fully content with God at all times. What things we may do, then, in eternity won't be to alleviate boredom.

So I don't think the "BBQ with Jesus Christ" is all that far fetched of a thing... provided such food is available.

Well, a BBQ with Jesus is definitely thinking of eternity in very human, earthly terms, from a very human frame of reference. I don't think God's supernatural, eternal kingdom will be much like what we know here and now, however.

That doesn't rule out smaller joys, it just rules out sinful ones, unless God made a specific promise (such as Marriage and by extent Sex). Enjoying a smaller joy with God makes it a greater joy.

It sounds like you're rather attached to earthly pleasures. But heaven is heavenly not because we find more of our temporal, earthly existence there but because we find our holy, infinite, awesome Maker there. He should be the great attraction of heaven, not fleshly, temporal things that occupy us here on earth. If God doesn't consume your interest now, I have a hard time seeing how heaven is going to be enjoyable to you. God is all heaven, really, is about.
 
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Jamdoc

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What other things might God be revealing in the variety and complexity of Creation? Can it all be reduced down to keeping us, or Himself, from boredom?

Also, how would you reconcile God being perfect with God getting bored? Wouldn't His perfection preclude boredom?



I agree. We won't spend all our time in eternity just staring at God in stupefied adoration. But we will, I think, find ourselves fully content with God at all times. What things we may do, then, in eternity won't be to alleviate boredom.



Well, a BBQ with Jesus is definitely thinking of eternity in very human, earthly terms, from a very human frame of reference. I don't think God's supernatural, eternal kingdom will be much like what we know here and now, however.



It sounds like you're rather attached to earthly pleasures. But heaven is heavenly not because we find more of our temporal, earthly existence there but because we find our holy, infinite, awesome Maker there. He should be the great attraction of heaven, not fleshly, temporal things that occupy us here on earth. If God doesn't consume your interest now, I have a hard time seeing how heaven is going to be enjoyable to you. God is all heaven, really, is about.
Boredom might be the wrong word for it but more or less just not wanting everything to be same and sterile

God created the earthly kingdom, He created dirt, mud, bacteria, fungus, all manner of "earthy" things, and the new Earth will be a new EARTH. I think God enjoys nature and dirt, He created so much of it. He didn't create pristine polished monolithic things. He created natural things, things we might consider "dirty", and a lot of variety of it. Jesus enjoyed fellowship with His disciples, Jesus enjoyed eating with His disciples. Jesus attended a wedding. Jesus doesn't like sin, but Jesus likes people and Jesus likes earth, and some earthly pleasures, the ones that aren't sinful, God created in the first place. We're told in the Word that Jesus enjoys when we do non sinful things for Him, like dancing as a means of worship of Him.

I find the idea that in the new Earth we won't do ANYTHING that we do in this life to be more far fetched than the idea that some things we do here, will be done after the resurrection, in Fellowship with Christ. Honestly, up until yesterday I thought, the same way as many do, that we'd be doing nothing that we do down here, and that we might really be just falling on our faces in adoration around the throne for all eternity. But a feeling hit me just so strong that that notion smacked of so much stupid that it was insulting to Him, and it was a sense of Take a look around you, look at creation, is that all the same? You can't even number how many different types of lives are on this one planet, how many types of stars and planets and galaxies are in this universe, there is so much diversity, variety, and change in THIS creation, you cannot even begin to imagine it. Take a look at creation, what kinds of things were created? It's not all gold and jewels. It's dirt. It's dirt and bugs and moss and mold and fish and birds and things that crawl, things you might consider ugly. God loves them too, and they were created by Him and so they are Good. Remade it will be Perfect.
It was more reassuring than any thought I had about God in the last several months.
I had problems absorbing things that I read that are not in the resurrection like marriage, being single, being disabled, just in a situation where it was unlikely that I would ever get married.
People would try to reassure me that God's presence is so awesome, that we'd just be in in His presence and that'd be it. They made it sound so singular, so static, so samey, and it didn't reassure me, it depressed me. Like I said, I now feel that Christians don't "sell" Heaven or salvation very well.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's Satan telling me that God wants anything more than just us falling on our faces in adoration surrounding him forever. But I love God more believing that God wants us to do all manner of variety of things in Fellowship with Him, and I love God more believing that God loves dirt. I don't think Satan wants me to love God.
 
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Hillsage

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“You shall never seek their peace or their prosperity all your days..." Deut 23:6

"Never seek their peace or prosperity, so that you may be strong and may eat the good things of the land, leaving it as an inheritance to your sons forever.’ EZ 9:12

Two references to not seeking Pagan peace.

Paul also clearly states Pagan religions are demonic.

Bliss is not the peace that passes all understanding.

Nirvana is not Heavenly or of the Kingdom of God.

The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands.
They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk. Rev 9:20
Brother, having read the whole thread, I think your post touched closer to the heart of discerning the true 'spirit' being dealt with in this thread's OP.

2CO 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.


Though you've tried, I think that scripture would say that you have come closer the the heart of Jesus in dealing with those who are not discerning 'the spirit' that is truly behind what appears to be the light of God, but isn't. Jesus own disciples struggled with similar spiritual discernment concerning 'what's of God's Spirit' and 'what comes from 'Satan's deceiving spirits'.

KJV LUK 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Now obviously it leaves God out, it leaves Christ out, but interesting food for thought, is that perhaps the state of bliss in His presence will be a removal of all desires?

Bliss?

How about what the New Testament says about all the Ekklesia having daily continual JOY, PEACE and RIGHTEOUSNESS ? (much much much better than bliss)
for such is the Kingdom of God, already.
 
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Boredom might be the wrong word for it but more or less just not wanting everything to be same and sterile

I wouldn't want that either. But I don't see any reason in Scripture for thinking this will be our eternal experience.

God created the earthly kingdom, He created dirt, mud, bacteria, fungus, all manner of "earthy" things, and the new Earth will be a new EARTH.

But it will be a different earth, free of the curse of sin, uncorrupted by human wickedness, where the lion and the lamb live together in peace, and Christ rules all in holy perfection. I think these things will make a very BIG difference to the nature of the new earth.

We're told in the Word that Jesus enjoys when we do non sinful things for Him, like dancing as a means of worship of Him.

Really? Where, exactly?

I find the idea that in the new Earth we won't do ANYTHING that we do in this life to be more far fetched than the idea that some things we do here, will be done after the resurrection, in Fellowship with Christ.

Is this a reflection of your love of this world, the world we are told in Scripture to avoid investing in because it will one day be entirely burned up? I think God is far more creative than to simply recreate the earth we know. Certainly, when I read John's revelation, his descriptions of heaven and the life to come sound very little like life here on earth.

But a feeling hit me just so strong that that notion smacked of so much stupid that it was insulting to Him

What is stupid about falling on our faces before God's throne in adoration of Him? How would this be wrong even if it was all we ever did in heaven? Does God not deserve such adoration? What about the cherubim before God's throne who continually proclaim, "Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty"? Are they just acting stupidly? Is God stupid for allowing or making them do so?

People would try to reassure me that God's presence is so awesome, that we'd just be in in His presence and that'd be it. They made it sound so singular, so static, so samey, and it didn't reassure me, it depressed me.

Well, this is suggestive of how you view God, isn't it? That being in God's presence wouldn't by itself be enough for you indicates a very low, weak view of God, it seems to me.

I don't think you need fear that eternity will be static or "samey" but I would urge you to think more carefully on who God is. He is far, far, far more unlike us than He is like us. We share some of His attributes, yes, but He differs from us in ways I don't think we can even guess at. He is quite alien; quite beyond our understanding. Resist, then, the very human tendency to think of Him as just a super-powered human. I think when we finally see God, we will be stunned by how much more enormous and different from us He is and how truly and greatly He deserves all the praise and adoration we can give Him.

Like I said, I now feel that Christians don't "sell" Heaven or salvation very well.

To people who don't love God, who aren't totally obsessed with Him, heaven has to have more in it, it has to be about other things, than just God. But heaven is heavenly only because God is there. Selling that to those who are living in rebellion to Him, who don't truly love Him, is impossible without making heaven into just another nicer version of earth.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's Satan telling me that God wants anything more than just us falling on our faces in adoration surrounding him forever.

Well, Satan would certainly object to such worship, don't you think? He'd want to discourage us from such adoration of God, right?

But I love God more believing that God wants us to do all manner of variety of things in Fellowship with Him,

I think we'll have lots to do in heaven. But I would urge you to think carefully on why God alone for all of eternity wouldn't be enough for you. The God I know, the God revealed in Scripture, is a God who is totally satisfying all on His own.

I don't think Satan wants me to love God.

Oh, he'd be thrilled to have you love a false or diminished version of God.
 
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Jamdoc

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I wouldn't want that either. But I don't see any reason in Scripture for thinking this will be our eternal experience.
It's more along the lines of what pastors say in sermons, and even you profess later in your post, that that SHOULD be all I want to do is fall on my face before the throne and worship, doing the exact same thing for all eternity. You say that's what I should want and treat it as if that's what God wants.

But it will be a different earth, free of the curse of sin, uncorrupted by human wickedness, where the lion and the lamb live together in peace, and Christ rules all in holy perfection. I think these things will make a very BIG difference to the nature of the new earth.
Different, there won't be sin, there won't be night, but I think there will still be dirt, there will still be plants, animals, water, they may all be beyond imagination in how spectacular they are, but when God created this world and this universe He was pleased with it, before sin poisoned it. God doesn't change His mind because God knows everything so He won't come to a new perspective due to new information, because there is no new information to Him. So the things He created that were Good, are still going to be Good, they'll still please Him. Maybe you're right and it will ALL pass away. But my heart tells me that the things in this world that please him, will be a part of the new creation too. Some things will be familiar, others will be new, I have no idea how much of each there will be. But God created many many forms of life, big and small, and I hope the new creation will have many many forms of life big and small too. New Earth sterile and devoid of life aside from God and the redeemed humans? No plants, no animals? That doesn't feel consistent with what God has done.

Really? Where, exactly?
David danced before the LORD with all his might. (2 Samuel 6:14)
I think many activities can be considered worship, if they are done for that purpose, if they are done to glorify and please God.

Is this a reflection of your love of this world, the world we are told in Scripture to avoid investing in because it will one day be entirely burned up? I think God is far more creative than to simply recreate the earth we know. Certainly, when I read John's revelation, his descriptions of heaven and the life to come sound very little like life here on earth.
Not my love, His Love. He will remake it perfect, but He loves his creation, and His image bearers. He gave His own son, the sign of ultimate Love for something. The world we're not to invest in is the civilization and society that WE created in sin, the "World" of men, the rules and laws and punishments and false religions and idols and perversions and abominations that WE make.

What is stupid about falling on our faces before God's throne in adoration of Him? How would this be wrong even if it was all we ever did in heaven? Does God not deserve such adoration? What about the cherubim before God's throne who continually proclaim, "Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty"? Are they just acting stupidly? Is God stupid for allowing or making them do so?
No, the stupid is the idea that that's ALL He wants us to do. He has bigger plans than that. If He wanted robots that just bowed to him forever He could have had that. He made us capable of so many more things than that, He made us with free will, and in the new creation, with the absence of sin, we will choose to do things that glorify Him, and there an unimaginable ways that He will want for us to do that. He created such variety and diversity, that it wouldn't be His way to have everyone be the same, everyone do the same. He could have exactly what you describe, if He wanted. Would He deserve it? Yes. However it's inconsistent with His creation, and we were created with free will, so that we would all be different, His plan for each person is individual, that's inconsistent if we're all doing the same thing for eternity.

Well, this is suggestive of how you view God, isn't it? That being in God's presence wouldn't by itself be enough for you indicates a very low, weak view of God, it seems to me.

I don't think you need fear that eternity will be static or "samey" but I would urge you to think more carefully on who God is. He is far, far, far more unlike us than He is like us. We share some of His attributes, yes, but He differs from us in ways I don't think we can even guess at. He is quite alien; quite beyond our understanding. Resist, then, the very human tendency to think of Him as just a super-powered human. I think when we finally see God, we will be stunned by how much more enormous and different from us He is and how truly and greatly He deserves all the praise and adoration we can give Him.
The opposite.it makes Him more glorious to have a more vast and diverse plan. It's not enough for me because I don't believe it's enough for Him. Just basking in His presence (which will be everywhere btw, it won't be confined to one location, we can get on a spaceship, fly a trillion light years away, and God will still be just as close to us, and still be the light in the entire new universe), and not doing anything for Him, that's not glorifying Him. That's too small, that's men's thinking. God is more glorious than that. He has something planned for each individual person, that they will want to do for Him, and that will glorify Him in so many different ways with each person doing their own calling and fulfilling His plan. Adoration will be part of it of course, but He has more than that.

To people who don't love God, who aren't totally obsessed with Him, heaven has to have more in it, it has to be about other things, than just God. But heaven is heavenly only because God is there. Selling that to those who are living in rebellion to Him, who don't truly love Him, is impossible without making heaven into just another nicer version of earth.
The vision they're selling is static and small in scope. God is vast and magnificent in scope. It's too simple, and God and all His works are complex.

Well, Satan would certainly object to such worship, don't you think? He'd want to discourage us from such adoration of God, right?
Not if by telling people "all God wants you to do is bow and grovel before him like slaves, a lazy king resting on a silken cushion being fanned and fed grapes for all eternity is that what you want?" he can make being in God's presence sound boring and undesirable.
Satan has been telling me that for years. To convince me that God is THAT boring.
The bitterness of the tone. That comes from years of worrying that as my body was falling apart here (still waiting on the MRI but I most likely have Multiple Sclerosis), and an active life has been taken from me, that my 2 options were two static eternities, an eternity of suffering, or an eternity of doing the same thing over and over again never actively doing anything just falling on my face.
I have no doubt that as I questioned that here, and prayed for revelation that the Holy Spirit reached out to me to tell me that God is not static, God does not want everything the same or everyone doing the same thing, God is not BORING, and that He plans for me to do so much more active things than I could even imagine.
Satan also tried to convince me, in my weakness, in my illness, that God gives out blessings and curses to people lopsidedly on earth, some prosper, some get sick and weak like me, but after the Resurrection, He hands out His blessing one size fits all, you get the same as someone who was truly blessed on Earth and your suffering meant nothing, He didn't care, He doesn't care, and all His plan would be would be for you to grovel at His feet. That there was no individual plan, since we'd all be getting the exact same thing and be doing the exact same thing
I stopped loving God and instead only feared Him, because I knew as bad as my situation is, He could make it worse, and I felt I had nothing to really look forward to, just a less painful static eternal existence.
That's what Satan wanted me to believe about God, he knows my weakness is sameness and boredom, and let me tell you, when you're crippled you get bored with the few things you are still able to do so easily that it makes you cry. Read? Watch TV? Stories about people doing things you can't do. Arts and crafts? When you are so clumsy it's a struggle to tie your own shoelaces anymore?
The reassurance, and trust me, it wasn't from any of you here, because you keep doubling down on this concept that a static samey eternity of doing one thing over and over is what I should want, and all I should want. It really does not matter what the thing is, I just don't want to be doing the same thing over and over. But the reassurance was that God has WAY bigger plans than that. That that view of God is too simple for someone so complex.

I think we'll have lots to do in heaven. But I would urge you to think carefully on why God alone for all of eternity wouldn't be enough for you. The God I know, the God revealed in Scripture, is a God who is totally satisfying all on His own.
Because that's a simple view of Him and not good enough for Him.
(1 Corinthians 2:9)
We can imagine falling on our faces in adoration. We can't imagine what God actually wants us to do in the new creation.

Oh, he'd be thrilled to have you love a version of God that is false, or that diminishes Him.
Nothing in my mind diminishes Him now. The view of everyone just falling on their face in adoration forever over and over was a diminished view, it coincided with Satan's view of a fat lazy king resting on his laurels, not a perfect being who created a Universe, and will in fact, create a second one to replace the first with this next one being perfect. Eternal life is more than just falling on our faces in adoration because GOD is more than falling on our faces in adoration. That makes me Love Him rather than just fear Him (although we all still must fear Him)
 
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Neogaia777

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So, according to the Nirvanism heresy, we shall not desire the Presence of the Lord, we shall not desire the intimacy of raising voices together in His praise.
Yeah, ridding oneself of "all desire" is not really very realistic or tangible or very practical, and usually does not exist unless your dead or cease to exist, and it therefore does not really exist, etc...

I only used that term as to mean more, "bliss", even though their definition of the word or term "nirvana" is most certainly not "bliss", etc, I only used that word within the context of the OP, and to better communicate with the OP...

Good desires are not bad, etc...

To have desires is to be alive or exist... And to have only good, pure and holy desires is to be "Holy", good, and pure, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Yeah, ridding oneself of "all desire" is not really very realistic or tangible or very practical, and usually does not exist unless your dead or cease to exist, and it therefore does not really exist, etc...

I only used that term as to mean more, "bliss", even though their definition of the word or term "nirvana" is most certainly not "bliss", etc, I only used that word within the context of the OP, and to better communicate with the OP...

Good desires are not bad, etc...

To have desires is to be alive or exist... And to have only good, pure and holy desires is to be "Holy", good, and pure, etc...

God Bless!
To be in a state of bliss for example, means you desire to be in a state of bliss, for example, etc...

That's kind of what I mean about it supposed to be meaning "a freedom from all desire" of any kind, etc...

So, yeah, guess you could say "heresy" or heretical, it is only mere man's wisdom after all, and is imperfect, etc, and doesn't even begin to compare to God's wisdom, etc...

I just used it to better communicate with the OP and original poster, etc... Didn't want to bother explaining, etc... Hope that's not laziness on my part...?

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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